Amazon EC2 hosting for OpenSim?

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Amazon EC2 hosting for OpenSim?

EGBainbridge/Apollo Manga
This post was updated on .
I'm wondering what experiences people here have had with hosting OpenSim on Amazon EC2, how it's worked out for you, and which EC2 OS's you recommend?

My two first choices for an OS are SUSE (because I know OpenSUSE best from running an OpenSUSE OpenSim server at home) and Ubuntu because it's the cheapest on EC2 and because my impression is that OpenSim doesn't have any problems with it.

I'm considering EC2 for two different OpenSim hosting situations.  One is a company for whom I'm developing a grid and the other is for myself, to expand the OpenSim grid I'm hosting on my home server. My inclination is to use Ubuntu for the company's grid and SUSE for my grid.

Apollo Manga (Erik Gordon Bainbridge)
Writer, instructor, former software engineer
Northern California
ErikBainbridge.com
VirtualMarin.com
hypergrid: marin.us.com:8002

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Re: Amazon EC2 hosting for OpenSim?

CiderJack
One thing to consider when thinking about giving Amazon your money:
http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/06/amazon-cia/

Cheers,
~CJ


On 2013-11-27 09:58, EGBainbridge/Apollo Manga wrote:

> I'm wondering what experiences people here have had with hosting
> OpenSim on
> Amazon EC2, how it's worked out for you, and which EC2 OS's you
> recommend?
>
> My two first choices for an OS are SUSE (because I know OpenSUSE best
> from
> running an OpenSUSE OpenSim server at home) and Ubuntu because it's the
> cheapest on EC2 and because my impression is that OpenSim doesn't have
> any
> problems with it.
>
> I'm considering EC2 for two different OpenSim hosting situations.  One
> is a
> company for whom I'm developing a grid and the other is for myself, to
> expand the OpenSim grid I'm hosting on my home server.
>
>
>
> -----
>  Apollo Manga (Erik Gordon Bainbridge)
>  Writer, instructor, former software engineer
>  Northern California
>  ErikBainbridge.com
>  VirtualMarin.com
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://opensim-users.2152040.n2.nabble.com/Amazon-EC2-hosting-for-OpenSim-tp7580697.html
> Sent from the opensim-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
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Re: Amazon EC2 hosting for OpenSim?

Ken Grunke
In reply to this post by EGBainbridge/Apollo Manga
On 11/26/2013 02:58 PM, EGBainbridge/Apollo Manga wrote:
> I'm wondering what experiences people here have had with hosting OpenSim on
> Amazon EC2, how it's worked out for you, and which EC2 OS's you recommend?

I may be mistaken, but I have always been under the impression that
Amazon EC2 instances are virtual servers, basically no different from a
VPS which is commonly available and for a more reasonable long-term fee.
A VPS may be adequate for personal use and testing, but for business use
can be disappointing. Perhaps the Amazon instances are more reliable and
definitely more scaleable in response to varying server demands than
your run-of-the-mill VPS.

I do make use of Amazon's instances for various kinds of testing,
including Opensim, and find them very easy to use. My preference is
Ubuntu, but I've not noticed any price differences over other Linux
OS's.  One little "gotchya" for me was the server address - you can use
the public DNS address for your ini files (Regions.ini & applicable
config-include files) but are much better off using the Public IP number
if you want to avoid networking and region accessability headaches.

Ken Grunke aka Key Gruin@Osgrid

>
> My two first choices for an OS are SUSE (because I know OpenSUSE best from
> running an OpenSUSE OpenSim server at home) and Ubuntu because it's the
> cheapest on EC2 and because my impression is that OpenSim doesn't have any
> problems with it.
>
> I'm considering EC2 for two different OpenSim hosting situations.  One is a
> company for whom I'm developing a grid and the other is for myself, to
> expand the OpenSim grid I'm hosting on my home server.
>
>
>
> -----
>   Apollo Manga (Erik Gordon Bainbridge)
>   Writer, instructor, former software engineer
>   Northern California
>   ErikBainbridge.com
>   VirtualMarin.com
> --
> View this message in context: http://opensim-users.2152040.n2.nabble.com/Amazon-EC2-hosting-for-OpenSim-tp7580697.html
> Sent from the opensim-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>

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Re: Amazon EC2 hosting for OpenSim?

justincc
In reply to this post by EGBainbridge/Apollo Manga
When I was working with an organization using EC2,there was a bizarre occasional performance glitch where CPU would jump
to 100% and all other processes would be locked out.

I believe this was an OpenSimulator bug which has since been fixed, though it was curious this was never seen in any
other context.

Regarding instances, dual core was the absolute minimum.  I can't remember what these instances were composed of
exactly, but they seemed to run OpenSimulator reasonably well.

I would strongly advise you avoid single core instances, OpenSimulator has traditionally performed very poorly with
these.  Things might be different with 0.7.6 but I suspect not enough to make it a feasible option for anything other
than a lone avatar with little content or activity.

As always, more cores is better.  But if you're running continuously you may be better off with a leased server - it
will work out much cheaper.

On 26/11/13 20:58, EGBainbridge/Apollo Manga wrote:

> I'm wondering what experiences people here have had with hosting OpenSim on
> Amazon EC2, how it's worked out for you, and which EC2 OS's you recommend?
>
> My two first choices for an OS are SUSE (because I know OpenSUSE best from
> running an OpenSUSE OpenSim server at home) and Ubuntu because it's the
> cheapest on EC2 and because my impression is that OpenSim doesn't have any
> problems with it.
>
> I'm considering EC2 for two different OpenSim hosting situations.  One is a
> company for whom I'm developing a grid and the other is for myself, to
> expand the OpenSim grid I'm hosting on my home server.
>
>
>
> -----
>   Apollo Manga (Erik Gordon Bainbridge)
>   Writer, instructor, former software engineer
>   Northern California
>   ErikBainbridge.com
>   VirtualMarin.com
> --
> View this message in context: http://opensim-users.2152040.n2.nabble.com/Amazon-EC2-hosting-for-OpenSim-tp7580697.html
> Sent from the opensim-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>


--
Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
OSVW Consulting
http://justincc.org
http://twitter.com/justincc
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Re: Amazon EC2 hosting for OpenSim?

Rick Anderson
In reply to this post by Ken Grunke
I use Amazon EC2 exclusively for my servers, and it works fine. I usually run Ubuntu which is pretty easy to work with. Also, I use RDS Mysql database instead of running the DB on individual systems. The only thing that I need to do special was configure email separately. But they have an email service that works fine.

-_Rick




On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 6:00 PM, Ken Grunke <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 11/26/2013 02:58 PM, EGBainbridge/Apollo Manga wrote:
I'm wondering what experiences people here have had with hosting OpenSim on
Amazon EC2, how it's worked out for you, and which EC2 OS's you recommend?

I may be mistaken, but I have always been under the impression that Amazon EC2 instances are virtual servers, basically no different from a VPS which is commonly available and for a more reasonable long-term fee. A VPS may be adequate for personal use and testing, but for business use can be disappointing. Perhaps the Amazon instances are more reliable and definitely more scaleable in response to varying server demands than your run-of-the-mill VPS.

I do make use of Amazon's instances for various kinds of testing, including Opensim, and find them very easy to use. My preference is Ubuntu, but I've not noticed any price differences over other Linux OS's.  One little "gotchya" for me was the server address - you can use the public DNS address for your ini files (Regions.ini & applicable config-include files) but are much better off using the Public IP number if you want to avoid networking and region accessability headaches.

Ken Grunke aka Key Gruin@Osgrid



My two first choices for an OS are SUSE (because I know OpenSUSE best from
running an OpenSUSE OpenSim server at home) and Ubuntu because it's the
cheapest on EC2 and because my impression is that OpenSim doesn't have any
problems with it.

I'm considering EC2 for two different OpenSim hosting situations.  One is a
company for whom I'm developing a grid and the other is for myself, to
expand the OpenSim grid I'm hosting on my home server.



-----
  Apollo Manga (Erik Gordon Bainbridge)
  Writer, instructor, former software engineer
  Northern California
  ErikBainbridge.com
  VirtualMarin.com
--
View this message in context: http://opensim-users.2152040.n2.nabble.com/Amazon-EC2-hosting-for-OpenSim-tp7580697.html
Sent from the opensim-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



--
Rick Anderson
Director of Virtual Worlds
Division of Continuing Studies (DoCS)
Rutgers University
(732) 586-3265

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Re: Amazon EC2 hosting for OpenSim?

EGBainbridge/Apollo Manga
In reply to this post by Ken Grunke
Ken Grunke wrote
I may be mistaken, but I have always been under the impression that
Amazon EC2 instances are virtual servers, basically no different from a
VPS which is commonly available and for a more reasonable long-term fee.
A VPS may be adequate for personal use and testing, but for business use
can be disappointing. Perhaps the Amazon instances are more reliable and
definitely more scaleable
I share your concerns and want to find out one way or the other.  Kitely uses Amazon EC2, so there is hope.  

Ken Grunke wrote
My preference is
Ubuntu, but I've not noticed any price differences over other Linux
OS's.
Here are some examples of costs by operating system:

SUSE Linux Enterprise Server 11: $0.03 to $0.30/hr incl EC2 charges + other AWS usage fees
Amazon Linux AMI (64-bit): $0.02 to $3.82/hr incl EC2 charges + other AWS usage fees
Microsoft Windows Server 2003 R2 Base: $0.02 to $0.285/hr incl EC2 charges + other AWS usage fees
Ubuntu Server 10.04 LTS: $0.00/hr for software + AWS usage fees

It looks to me like Ubuntu costs less than the others, but maybe the page is just misleading?    


Ken Grunke wrote
One little "gotchya" for me was the server address - you can use
the public DNS address for your ini files (Regions.ini & applicable
config-include files) but are much better off using the Public IP number
if you want to avoid networking and region accessability headaches.
Are you saying that we can't use the domain name when running OpenSim on Amazon EC2?  If so, that's a huge gotcha for me.

Thanks for your input!

Apollo Manga (Erik Gordon Bainbridge)
Writer, instructor, former software engineer
Northern California
ErikBainbridge.com
VirtualMarin.com
hypergrid: marin.us.com:8002

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Re: Amazon EC2 hosting for OpenSim?

ssm2017
In reply to this post by Rick Anderson


2013/11/27 Rick Anderson <[hidden email]>
I use Amazon EC2 exclusively for my servers, and it works fine. I usually run Ubuntu which is pretty easy to work with. Also, I use RDS Mysql database instead of running the DB on individual systems. The only thing that I need to do special was configure email separately. But they have an email service that works fine.

-_Rick




On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 6:00 PM, Ken Grunke <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 11/26/2013 02:58 PM, EGBainbridge/Apollo Manga wrote:
I'm wondering what experiences people here have had with hosting OpenSim on
Amazon EC2, how it's worked out for you, and which EC2 OS's you recommend?

I may be mistaken, but I have always been under the impression that Amazon EC2 instances are virtual servers, basically no different from a VPS which is commonly available and for a more reasonable long-term fee. A VPS may be adequate for personal use and testing, but for business use can be disappointing. Perhaps the Amazon instances are more reliable and definitely more scaleable in response to varying server demands than your run-of-the-mill VPS.

I do make use of Amazon's instances for various kinds of testing, including Opensim, and find them very easy to use. My preference is Ubuntu, but I've not noticed any price differences over other Linux OS's.  One little "gotchya" for me was the server address - you can use the public DNS address for your ini files (Regions.ini & applicable config-include files) but are much better off using the Public IP number if you want to avoid networking and region accessability headaches.

Ken Grunke aka Key Gruin@Osgrid



My two first choices for an OS are SUSE (because I know OpenSUSE best from
running an OpenSUSE OpenSim server at home) and Ubuntu because it's the
cheapest on EC2 and because my impression is that OpenSim doesn't have any
problems with it.

I'm considering EC2 for two different OpenSim hosting situations.  One is a
company for whom I'm developing a grid and the other is for myself, to
expand the OpenSim grid I'm hosting on my home server.



-----
  Apollo Manga (Erik Gordon Bainbridge)
  Writer, instructor, former software engineer
  Northern California
  ErikBainbridge.com
  VirtualMarin.com
--
View this message in context: http://opensim-users.2152040.n2.nabble.com/Amazon-EC2-hosting-for-OpenSim-tp7580697.html
Sent from the opensim-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



--
Rick Anderson
Director of Virtual Worlds
Division of Continuing Studies (DoCS)
Rutgers University
<a href="tel:%28732%29%20586-3265" value="+17325863265" target="_blank">(732) 586-3265

_______________________________________________
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https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


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Re: Amazon EC2 hosting for OpenSim?

EGBainbridge/Apollo Manga
In reply to this post by justincc
justincc wrote
...I would strongly advise you avoid single core instances, OpenSimulator has traditionally performed very poorly with
these.  Things might be different with 0.7.6 but I suspect not enough to make it a feasible option for anything other
than a lone avatar with little content or activity.

As always, more cores is better. ...
EC2 runs Xeon servers that are up to 16 cores (32 virtual).  

Before building my home server in 2011, I researched OpenSim requirements pretty thoroughly and used a 4 core i7 that with hyperthreading gives me 8 virtual cores.  I wouldn't use any less.

Apollo Manga (Erik Gordon Bainbridge)
Writer, instructor, former software engineer
Northern California
ErikBainbridge.com
VirtualMarin.com
hypergrid: marin.us.com:8002

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Re: Amazon EC2 hosting for OpenSim?

hack13
In reply to this post by ssm2017
Actually ssm2017 that article was by me on hypergrid business not
maria. She just ran it, but honestly there is not real huge concerns,
i just first suggest rendering a free elastic ip for your cloud
instance it is free so long as you attach it to your server and it
solves the dns issue all together, but be careful if you destroy your
instance you elastic ip doesn't go away automatically and then you get
charged for it. I got dinged by that in the past, it is pretty harsh,
but honestly I have no issues with the cloud but I just don't find it
finacially advice able for always on regions.

On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 6:46 PM, ssm2017 <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Maria spoke about this not a long time ago :
> http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2013/11/should-you-host-on-the-amazon-cloud/
>
>
> 2013/11/27 Rick Anderson <[hidden email]>
>>
>> I use Amazon EC2 exclusively for my servers, and it works fine. I usually
>> run Ubuntu which is pretty easy to work with. Also, I use RDS Mysql database
>> instead of running the DB on individual systems. The only thing that I need
>> to do special was configure email separately. But they have an email service
>> that works fine.
>>
>> -_Rick
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 6:00 PM, Ken Grunke <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 11/26/2013 02:58 PM, EGBainbridge/Apollo Manga wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm wondering what experiences people here have had with hosting OpenSim
>>>> on
>>>> Amazon EC2, how it's worked out for you, and which EC2 OS's you
>>>> recommend?
>>>
>>>
>>> I may be mistaken, but I have always been under the impression that
>>> Amazon EC2 instances are virtual servers, basically no different from a VPS
>>> which is commonly available and for a more reasonable long-term fee. A VPS
>>> may be adequate for personal use and testing, but for business use can be
>>> disappointing. Perhaps the Amazon instances are more reliable and definitely
>>> more scaleable in response to varying server demands than your
>>> run-of-the-mill VPS.
>>>
>>> I do make use of Amazon's instances for various kinds of testing,
>>> including Opensim, and find them very easy to use. My preference is Ubuntu,
>>> but I've not noticed any price differences over other Linux OS's.  One
>>> little "gotchya" for me was the server address - you can use the public DNS
>>> address for your ini files (Regions.ini & applicable config-include files)
>>> but are much better off using the Public IP number if you want to avoid
>>> networking and region accessability headaches.
>>>
>>> Ken Grunke aka Key Gruin@Osgrid
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> My two first choices for an OS are SUSE (because I know OpenSUSE best
>>>> from
>>>> running an OpenSUSE OpenSim server at home) and Ubuntu because it's the
>>>> cheapest on EC2 and because my impression is that OpenSim doesn't have
>>>> any
>>>> problems with it.
>>>>
>>>> I'm considering EC2 for two different OpenSim hosting situations.  One
>>>> is a
>>>> company for whom I'm developing a grid and the other is for myself, to
>>>> expand the OpenSim grid I'm hosting on my home server.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>>   Apollo Manga (Erik Gordon Bainbridge)
>>>>   Writer, instructor, former software engineer
>>>>   Northern California
>>>>   ErikBainbridge.com
>>>>   VirtualMarin.com
>>>> --
>>>> View this message in context:
>>>> http://opensim-users.2152040.n2.nabble.com/Amazon-EC2-hosting-for-OpenSim-tp7580697.html
>>>> Sent from the opensim-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rick Anderson
>> Director of Virtual Worlds
>> Division of Continuing Studies (DoCS)
>> Rutgers University
>> (732) 586-3265
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
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Re: Amazon EC2 hosting for OpenSim?

Ken Grunke
In reply to this post by EGBainbridge/Apollo Manga
On 11/26/2013 08:41 PM, EGBainbridge/Apollo Manga wrote:

> Ken Grunke wrote
>> My preference is
>> Ubuntu, but I've not noticed any price differences over other Linux
>> OS's.
> Here are some examples of costs by operating system:
>
> SUSE Linux Enterprise Server 11: $0.03 to $0.30/hr incl EC2 charges + other
> AWS usage fees
> Amazon Linux AMI (64-bit): $0.02 to $3.82/hr incl EC2 charges + other AWS
> usage fees
> Microsoft Windows Server 2003 R2 Base: $0.02 to $0.285/hr incl EC2 charges +
> other AWS usage fees
> Ubuntu Server 10.04 LTS: $0.00/hr for software + AWS usage fees
>    

Yes, there are two Enterprise versions of Linux (Suse & Redhat) that are
higher priced, and of course Windows, but aside from those, all AWS fees
are based on options of all the instance types regarding CPU, memory,
and network speed.
You can even create your own image with your choice of OS - there are a
few tutorials for doing that scattered around the internet.

>
>
> Ken Grunke wrote
>> One little "gotchya" for me was the server address - you can use
>> the public DNS address...
> Are you saying that we can't use the domain name when running OpenSim on
> Amazon EC2?  If so, that's a huge gotcha for me.

Oh no! Sorry, I was referring only to the Amazon public DNS address, not
to assigning your own domain to your server.

>
>
>
> -----
>   Apollo Manga (Erik Gordon Bainbridge)
>   Writer, instructor, former software engineer
>   Northern California
>   ErikBainbridge.com
>   VirtualMarin.com
>   hypergrid: marin.us.com:8002
>

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