Animations

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Animations

lppallew
Hi Everyone,
 
Does anyone know how to get animations that I purchased in SL to opensim?
 
Thanks
 

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Re: Animations

Sarge Misfit
You can't due to SL's permissions system. You can only export those
things that you created yourself.

On 10/16/11, Wayne <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> Does anyone know how to get animations that I purchased in SL to opensim?
>
> Thanks
>
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Re: Animations

Lindy (McKeown) Orwin
In reply to this post by lppallew
Wayne
You can find some animations for free on 
Lindy

On 16 October 2011 08:28, Wayne <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Everyone,
 
Does anyone know how to get animations that I purchased in SL to opensim?
 
Thanks
 

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Re: Animations

lppallew

Hi Lindy and thank you.
 
I've spent hundreds of dollars on animations in SL and I think it's a crime to find that, in essence, I am only renting them.
 
Sorry, just had to vent. lol
 
Wayne
On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Lindy Orwin <[hidden email]> wrote:
Wayne
You can find some animations for free on 
Lindy

On 16 October 2011 08:28, Wayne <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Everyone,
 
Does anyone know how to get animations that I purchased in SL to opensim?
 
Thanks
 

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https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



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Re: Animations

Mike Chase
On 10/16/2011 01:50 PM, Wayne wrote:

Hi Lindy and thank you.
 
I've spent hundreds of dollars on animations in SL and I think it's a crime to find that, in essence, I am only renting them.
Did you get them as a work for hire?  Have a contract that says you can reuse them?  This is no different than software or other intellectual property.  Ownership vests in the person that *created* them.  You paid for a right to use. And in that case, only in the context of SL; A given since there's no way to export them legitimately.  People who create textures often include terms of use to address this because textures are more easily moved around.  But if you "buy" textures in SL you get them with a right to use them, possibly spelled out in a license.  Ownership is still only the creator.

Just had to clarify this.  There's too much oppourtunity to abuse content creators rights in the virtual world space.

Mike
Sorry, just had to vent. lol
 
Wayne
On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Lindy Orwin <[hidden email]> wrote:
Wayne
You can find some animations for free on 
Lindy

On 16 October 2011 08:28, Wayne <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Everyone,
 
Does anyone know how to get animations that I purchased in SL to opensim?
 
Thanks
 

_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



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Re: Animations

Lindy (McKeown) Orwin
In reply to this post by lppallew

As a machinimatographer, Feel your pain, Wayne. Me too.
Lindy

On Oct 16, 2011 10:51 AM, "Wayne" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Lindy and thank you.
 
I've spent hundreds of dollars on animations in SL and I think it's a crime to find that, in essence, I am only renting them.
 
Sorry, just had to vent. lol
 
Wayne
On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Lindy Orwin <[hidden email]> wrote:
Wayne
You can find some animations for free on 
Lindy

On 16 October 2011 08:28, Wayne <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Everyone,
 
Does anyone know how to get animations that I purchased in SL to opensim?
 
Thanks
 

_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
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Re: Animations

Karen Palen
In reply to this post by lppallew
Consider this an introduction to the whole content piracy issue.

It is not nearly as one sided as many would have you believe.

FWIW, IRL I am a retired IP lawyer so I know something of the issues and
the practical results are not very satisfying to either side.

For example under current US law if you purchased the "content" on
physical media such as a CD or USB stick then you OWN that piece of
hardware and can resell it to anyone, provided that you do not keep a copy.

However if you merely downloaded the content then you are merely
"renting" it!

I think you can see why many people on both sides of the issue are upset
- we (i.e. judges) simply have not had time to work out what is truly
fair to everyone!

Another example is the actual statute.

If you look up 17 USC 101 (US copyright statutes) then you find about 20
line defining what is "protected work" then the next 5000 line define
limitations and exceptions that is what is NOT copyright-able!

The largest publisher of books n the world (US Govt) cannot copyright
anything for example. Teachers and libraries get some blanket exemptions
as well.

Worse yet, as a content creator myself the "ownership" of content even
content that YOU have created is far from clear. Linden Labs lays some
claim to YOUR work! The exact nature of this is undefined at present,
but at various times they have simply forbidden ALL export of ANY
content, even content that I created.

At that point I moved all of my stores etc. out of Second Life, and
rarely even visit any more.

MY solution has been to create stuff on my own private "Diva" grid then
IMPORT it wherever I want to use it. Even that gets a hassle from
paranoid grid owners sometimes.

While I do not condone the piracy that is happening, I do understand the
frustration that causes it.

Karen

On 10/16/2011 10:50 AM, Wayne wrote:

> Hi Lindy and thank you.
>
> I've spent hundreds of dollars on animations in SL and I think it's a crime
> to find that, in essence, I am only renting them.
>
> Sorry, just had to vent. lol
>
> Wayne
> On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Lindy Orwin <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> Wayne
>> You can find some animations for free on
>> http://www.lindakellie.com/
>> Lindy
>>
>> On 16 October 2011 08:28, Wayne <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>
>>> Does anyone know how to get animations that I purchased in SL to opensim?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
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Re: Animations

GarminKawaguichi
In reply to this post by lppallew
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Wayne
>Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2011 7:50 PM
>Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Animations
>I've spent hundreds of dollars on animations in SL and I think it's a crime
>to find that, in essence, I am only renting them.

Note that if you have "really" created the animations for SL, you must own
the .BVH files; and you can import them into OpenSim without problems.

If you have purchased animations inside SL, just contact the creator and ask
if he wants to share the .BVH files.

If, as me, you are not able to create your own animation, there are lot of
.BVH file to download in the web:

http://accad.osu.edu/research/mocap/mocap_data.htm

https://sites.google.com/a/cgspeed.com/cgspeed/motion-capture/cmu-bvh-conversion

or try

http://davedub.co.uk/bvhacker/index.html

GCI

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Re: Animations

Vanish-2
In reply to this post by Karen Palen
I don't have much else to contribute to this topic, but I wanted to thank  
Karen for this very nice reply, which is a very welcome break from the  
usual hyperbole surrounding the subject.

I'd like to add that copyright is far from being universal around the  
world, and here in germany, for example, the law is less strict than it is  
in the U.S. We don't have the fair-use doctrine, but we do have some very  
clear exceptions from the general copyright (for example, the right to  
make private copies under certain circumstances). As far as litigation and  
actual pursuit of copyright goes, that's another matter entirely.

Greetings
V

> Consider this an introduction to the whole content piracy issue.
>
> It is not nearly as one sided as many would have you believe.
>
> FWIW, IRL I am a retired IP lawyer so I know something of the issues and
> the practical results are not very satisfying to either side.
>
> For example under current US law if you purchased the "content" on
> physical media such as a CD or USB stick then you OWN that piece of
> hardware and can resell it to anyone, provided that you do not keep a  
> copy.
>
> However if you merely downloaded the content then you are merely
> "renting" it!
>
> I think you can see why many people on both sides of the issue are upset
> - we (i.e. judges) simply have not had time to work out what is truly
> fair to everyone!
>
> Another example is the actual statute.
>
> If you look up 17 USC 101 (US copyright statutes) then you find about 20
> line defining what is "protected work" then the next 5000 line define
> limitations and exceptions that is what is NOT copyright-able!
>
> The largest publisher of books n the world (US Govt) cannot copyright
> anything for example. Teachers and libraries get some blanket exemptions
> as well.
>
> Worse yet, as a content creator myself the "ownership" of content even
> content that YOU have created is far from clear. Linden Labs lays some
> claim to YOUR work! The exact nature of this is undefined at present,
> but at various times they have simply forbidden ALL export of ANY
> content, even content that I created.
>
> At that point I moved all of my stores etc. out of Second Life, and
> rarely even visit any more.
>
> MY solution has been to create stuff on my own private "Diva" grid then
> IMPORT it wherever I want to use it. Even that gets a hassle from
> paranoid grid owners sometimes.
>
> While I do not condone the piracy that is happening, I do understand the
> frustration that causes it.
>
> Karen
>
> On 10/16/2011 10:50 AM, Wayne wrote:
>> Hi Lindy and thank you.
>>
>> I've spent hundreds of dollars on animations in SL and I think it's a  
>> crime
>> to find that, in essence, I am only renting them.
>>
>> Sorry, just had to vent. lol
>>
>> Wayne
>> On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Lindy Orwin  
>> <[hidden email]>wrote:
>>
>>> Wayne
>>> You can find some animations for free on
>>> http://www.lindakellie.com/
>>> Lindy
>>>
>>> On 16 October 2011 08:28, Wayne <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone know how to get animations that I purchased in SL to  
>>>> opensim?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


--
The Twilight’s Green Illuminate Beam,
This Great ImBalance, that I’ve seen,
That Trees Got Icy Branches and,
The Good In Bad, That God I’ve Been.

http://tgib.co.uk/
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overwhelming OS 0.7.2 with TOO RAPID login

Ovi Chris Rouly
Hello,

I've recently started driving my OpenSim 0.7.2 with the OpenMetaverse 0.9.1.
The network I use is a dedicated 10/100Mbps switch with less than 10 meters
of cable between the OS server-side and the OM client(s)-side.

Question:  has anyone noticed that the OS server-side can be overwhelmed
quite easily (>6 avatars) if they all enter at the same time (<1sec)?  Does
anyone know the "fix" or "config" remedy?

Detail: On the other hand, I have no trouble supporting +25 avatars if I
start them one at a time and let each one completely rez.  Moreover, my OS
host (16 core dual-Xeon) has demonstrated the ability to reliably render +12
of the +25 avatars playing independent animations quite easily.

Thank you,

Chris

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


----- Original Message -----
From: "Vanish" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Animations


> I don't have much else to contribute to this topic, but I wanted to thank
> Karen for this very nice reply, which is a very welcome break from the
> usual hyperbole surrounding the subject.
>
> I'd like to add that copyright is far from being universal around the
> world, and here in germany, for example, the law is less strict than it is
> in the U.S. We don't have the fair-use doctrine, but we do have some very
> clear exceptions from the general copyright (for example, the right to
> make private copies under certain circumstances). As far as litigation and
> actual pursuit of copyright goes, that's another matter entirely.
>
> Greetings
> V
>
> > Consider this an introduction to the whole content piracy issue.
> >
> > It is not nearly as one sided as many would have you believe.
> >
> > FWIW, IRL I am a retired IP lawyer so I know something of the issues and
> > the practical results are not very satisfying to either side.
> >
> > For example under current US law if you purchased the "content" on
> > physical media such as a CD or USB stick then you OWN that piece of
> > hardware and can resell it to anyone, provided that you do not keep a
> > copy.
> >
> > However if you merely downloaded the content then you are merely
> > "renting" it!
> >
> > I think you can see why many people on both sides of the issue are upset
> > - we (i.e. judges) simply have not had time to work out what is truly
> > fair to everyone!
> >
> > Another example is the actual statute.
> >
> > If you look up 17 USC 101 (US copyright statutes) then you find about 20
> > line defining what is "protected work" then the next 5000 line define
> > limitations and exceptions that is what is NOT copyright-able!
> >
> > The largest publisher of books n the world (US Govt) cannot copyright
> > anything for example. Teachers and libraries get some blanket exemptions
> > as well.
> >
> > Worse yet, as a content creator myself the "ownership" of content even
> > content that YOU have created is far from clear. Linden Labs lays some
> > claim to YOUR work! The exact nature of this is undefined at present,
> > but at various times they have simply forbidden ALL export of ANY
> > content, even content that I created.
> >
> > At that point I moved all of my stores etc. out of Second Life, and
> > rarely even visit any more.
> >
> > MY solution has been to create stuff on my own private "Diva" grid then
> > IMPORT it wherever I want to use it. Even that gets a hassle from
> > paranoid grid owners sometimes.
> >
> > While I do not condone the piracy that is happening, I do understand the
> > frustration that causes it.
> >
> > Karen
> >
> > On 10/16/2011 10:50 AM, Wayne wrote:
> >> Hi Lindy and thank you.
> >>
> >> I've spent hundreds of dollars on animations in SL and I think it's a
> >> crime
> >> to find that, in essence, I am only renting them.
> >>
> >> Sorry, just had to vent. lol
> >>
> >> Wayne
> >> On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Lindy Orwin
> >> <[hidden email]>wrote:
> >>
> >>> Wayne
> >>> You can find some animations for free on
> >>> http://www.lindakellie.com/
> >>> Lindy
> >>>
> >>> On 16 October 2011 08:28, Wayne <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi Everyone,
> >>>>
> >>>> Does anyone know how to get animations that I purchased in SL to
> >>>> opensim?
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Opensim-users mailing list
> >>>> [hidden email]
> >>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Opensim-users mailing list
> >>> [hidden email]
> >>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Opensim-users mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
> > _______________________________________________
> > Opensim-users mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>
> --
> The Twilight’s Green Illuminate Beam,
> This Great ImBalance, that I’ve seen,
> That Trees Got Icy Branches and,
> The Good In Bad, That God I’ve Been.
>
> http://tgib.co.uk/
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>


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Re: overwhelming OS 0.7.2 with TOO RAPID login

Shaun T. Erickson
Try setting enable_adaptive_throttles to true.

-ste

On Oct 18, 2011, at 11:54 AM, "Ovi Chris Rouly" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I've recently started driving my OpenSim 0.7.2 with the OpenMetaverse 0.9.1.
> The network I use is a dedicated 10/100Mbps switch with less than 10 meters
> of cable between the OS server-side and the OM client(s)-side.
>
> Question:  has anyone noticed that the OS server-side can be overwhelmed
> quite easily (>6 avatars) if they all enter at the same time (<1sec)?  Does
> anyone know the "fix" or "config" remedy?
>
> Detail: On the other hand, I have no trouble supporting +25 avatars if I
> start them one at a time and let each one completely rez.  Moreover, my OS
> host (16 core dual-Xeon) has demonstrated the ability to reliably render +12
> of the +25 avatars playing independent animations quite easily.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Chris
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Vanish" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 11:39 AM
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Animations
>
>
>> I don't have much else to contribute to this topic, but I wanted to thank
>> Karen for this very nice reply, which is a very welcome break from the
>> usual hyperbole surrounding the subject.
>>
>> I'd like to add that copyright is far from being universal around the
>> world, and here in germany, for example, the law is less strict than it is
>> in the U.S. We don't have the fair-use doctrine, but we do have some very
>> clear exceptions from the general copyright (for example, the right to
>> make private copies under certain circumstances). As far as litigation and
>> actual pursuit of copyright goes, that's another matter entirely.
>>
>> Greetings
>> V
>>
>>> Consider this an introduction to the whole content piracy issue.
>>>
>>> It is not nearly as one sided as many would have you believe.
>>>
>>> FWIW, IRL I am a retired IP lawyer so I know something of the issues and
>>> the practical results are not very satisfying to either side.
>>>
>>> For example under current US law if you purchased the "content" on
>>> physical media such as a CD or USB stick then you OWN that piece of
>>> hardware and can resell it to anyone, provided that you do not keep a
>>> copy.
>>>
>>> However if you merely downloaded the content then you are merely
>>> "renting" it!
>>>
>>> I think you can see why many people on both sides of the issue are upset
>>> - we (i.e. judges) simply have not had time to work out what is truly
>>> fair to everyone!
>>>
>>> Another example is the actual statute.
>>>
>>> If you look up 17 USC 101 (US copyright statutes) then you find about 20
>>> line defining what is "protected work" then the next 5000 line define
>>> limitations and exceptions that is what is NOT copyright-able!
>>>
>>> The largest publisher of books n the world (US Govt) cannot copyright
>>> anything for example. Teachers and libraries get some blanket exemptions
>>> as well.
>>>
>>> Worse yet, as a content creator myself the "ownership" of content even
>>> content that YOU have created is far from clear. Linden Labs lays some
>>> claim to YOUR work! The exact nature of this is undefined at present,
>>> but at various times they have simply forbidden ALL export of ANY
>>> content, even content that I created.
>>>
>>> At that point I moved all of my stores etc. out of Second Life, and
>>> rarely even visit any more.
>>>
>>> MY solution has been to create stuff on my own private "Diva" grid then
>>> IMPORT it wherever I want to use it. Even that gets a hassle from
>>> paranoid grid owners sometimes.
>>>
>>> While I do not condone the piracy that is happening, I do understand the
>>> frustration that causes it.
>>>
>>> Karen
>>>
>>> On 10/16/2011 10:50 AM, Wayne wrote:
>>>> Hi Lindy and thank you.
>>>>
>>>> I've spent hundreds of dollars on animations in SL and I think it's a
>>>> crime
>>>> to find that, in essence, I am only renting them.
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, just had to vent. lol
>>>>
>>>> Wayne
>>>> On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Lindy Orwin
>>>> <[hidden email]>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Wayne
>>>>> You can find some animations for free on
>>>>> http://www.lindakellie.com/
>>>>> Lindy
>>>>>
>>>>> On 16 October 2011 08:28, Wayne <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does anyone know how to get animations that I purchased in SL to
>>>>>> opensim?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>
>>
>> --
>> The Twilight’s Green Illuminate Beam,
>> This Great ImBalance, that I’ve seen,
>> That Trees Got Icy Branches and,
>> The Good In Bad, That God I’ve Been.
>>
>> http://tgib.co.uk/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
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Re: Animations

Patricia F Anderson
In reply to this post by Karen Palen
Sorry - posted from the wrong address.

On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Patricia F Anderson
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Perhaps it is just me, but I get nervous hearing "teachers and libraries"
> followed shortly by "Worse yet".
> If you go back into the history of copyright & intellectual property law,
> the origins stemmed from a desire to foster a positive relationship between
> the creative individual and those who value their creative contributions to
> society. The idea was that society at large benefits from individual
> creativity, but when the work of the creative individual is stolen and
> resold they often feel unappreciated and like "Why should I even try?" The
> original intellectual property laws sought to prevent that problem from
> occurring. It is quite enlightening tracking how incremental shifts in the
> law over the years have resulted in a 180 degree shift, which is what we are
> dealing with now.
>
> There are excellent reasons for the exemptions, with the ultimate goal being
> the benefit of society, rather than the benefit to the creator. The latter
> was specifically to protect the former! The exceptions & exemptions were
> supposed to reflext those circumstances when protecting a creator's personal
> interests would not be in the best interests of society. The issue of the US
> Government as a publisher also has to do with the work-for-hire issue. What
> can I say? These aren't simple issues.
> The whole issue of Linden Labs and their constantly changing contracts is
> different. Part of the question is when contract law trumps personal
> intellectual property rights, and if this can be done via a click-through
> license. That is a matter of some debate, and I have discussed this issue
> (specifically with respect to Second Life & Linden Labs) with our University
> Counsel.
> I am not a lawyer of any sort (so listen to Karen before me!), but copyright
> law is an old hobby of mine, and I have co-taught workshops on related
> issues with copyright law specialists. For more insight into contemporary
> trends in these issues, I recommend reading or watching Lawrence Lessig.
> <http://remix.lessig.org/>
> <http://www.ted.com/talks/lessig_nyed.html>
>  - Patricia / Perplexity
> On Tuesday, October 18, 2011, Karen Palen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> If you look up 17 USC 101 (US copyright statutes) then you find about 20
>> line defining what is "protected work" then the next 5000 line define
>> limitations and exceptions that is what is NOT copyright-able!
>>
>> The largest publisher of books n the world (US Govt) cannot copyright
>> anything for example. Teachers and libraries get some blanket exemptions
>> as well.
>>
>> Worse yet, as a content creator myself the "ownership" of content even
>> content that YOU have created is far from clear. Linden Labs lays some
>> claim to YOUR work! The exact nature of this is undefined at present,
>> but at various times they have simply forbidden ALL export of ANY
>> content, even content that I created.
>>
>> At that point I moved all of my stores etc. out of Second Life, and
>> rarely even visit any more.
>>
>> MY solution has been to create stuff on my own private "Diva" grid then
>> IMPORT it wherever I want to use it. Even that gets a hassle from
>> paranoid grid owners sometimes.
>>
>> While I do not condone the piracy that is happening, I do understand the
>> frustration that causes it.



--
Patricia Anderson / SL: Perplexity Peccable
[hidden email] OR [hidden email]
Emerging Technologies Librarian, Health Sciences Libraries
University of Michigan
1135 East Catherine
Ann Arbor, MI 48109
"Google can give you 1,000 answers to your question. A librarian will
give you the right one."
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Re: Animations

Karen Palen
Actually I was not intending to imply that any of these groups had an
unfair role to play. As you pint out they have a vital and essential
role, both for the "creators" and for society.

I was actually thinking of a frequent whine of unsuccessful authors that
libraries are merely "legal pirates" since they "give away the author's
work free". My problem with that statement is that quite often the
complaining author has very few sales outside of libraries and in one
memorable case my local library had almost zero demand  for his book!

In my own experience someone who is a success at any creative endeavor
faces far worse problems than any alleged "piracy" in learning their craft.

>> What can I say? These aren't simple issues.

I heartily agree!

Karen

On 10/18/2011 09:03 AM, Patricia F Anderson wrote:

> Sorry - posted from the wrong address.
>
> On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Patricia F Anderson
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Perhaps it is just me, but I get nervous hearing "teachers and libraries"
>> followed shortly by "Worse yet".
>> If you go back into the history of copyright & intellectual property law,
>> the origins stemmed from a desire to foster a positive relationship between
>> the creative individual and those who value their creative contributions to
>> society. The idea was that society at large benefits from individual
>> creativity, but when the work of the creative individual is stolen and
>> resold they often feel unappreciated and like "Why should I even try?" The
>> original intellectual property laws sought to prevent that problem from
>> occurring. It is quite enlightening tracking how incremental shifts in the
>> law over the years have resulted in a 180 degree shift, which is what we are
>> dealing with now.
>>
>> There are excellent reasons for the exemptions, with the ultimate goal being
>> the benefit of society, rather than the benefit to the creator. The latter
>> was specifically to protect the former! The exceptions & exemptions were
>> supposed to reflext those circumstances when protecting a creator's personal
>> interests would not be in the best interests of society. The issue of the US
>> Government as a publisher also has to do with the work-for-hire issue. What
>> can I say? These aren't simple issues.
>> The whole issue of Linden Labs and their constantly changing contracts is
>> different. Part of the question is when contract law trumps personal
>> intellectual property rights, and if this can be done via a click-through
>> license. That is a matter of some debate, and I have discussed this issue
>> (specifically with respect to Second Life & Linden Labs) with our University
>> Counsel.
>> I am not a lawyer of any sort (so listen to Karen before me!), but copyright
>> law is an old hobby of mine, and I have co-taught workshops on related
>> issues with copyright law specialists. For more insight into contemporary
>> trends in these issues, I recommend reading or watching Lawrence Lessig.
>> <http://remix.lessig.org/>
>> <http://www.ted.com/talks/lessig_nyed.html>
>>  - Patricia / Perplexity
>> On Tuesday, October 18, 2011, Karen Palen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> If you look up 17 USC 101 (US copyright statutes) then you find about 20
>>> line defining what is "protected work" then the next 5000 line define
>>> limitations and exceptions that is what is NOT copyright-able!
>>>
>>> The largest publisher of books n the world (US Govt) cannot copyright
>>> anything for example. Teachers and libraries get some blanket exemptions
>>> as well.
>>>
>>> Worse yet, as a content creator myself the "ownership" of content even
>>> content that YOU have created is far from clear. Linden Labs lays some
>>> claim to YOUR work! The exact nature of this is undefined at present,
>>> but at various times they have simply forbidden ALL export of ANY
>>> content, even content that I created.
>>>
>>> At that point I moved all of my stores etc. out of Second Life, and
>>> rarely even visit any more.
>>>
>>> MY solution has been to create stuff on my own private "Diva" grid then
>>> IMPORT it wherever I want to use it. Even that gets a hassle from
>>> paranoid grid owners sometimes.
>>>
>>> While I do not condone the piracy that is happening, I do understand the
>>> frustration that causes it.
>
>
>
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Re: Animations

Karen Palen
In reply to this post by Vanish-2
I too get very tired of people's habit of substitution hyperbole and
"drama" for any sense of justice and recognition of everyone's rights in
this area.

While I referred to US Law since that is what I know, the underlying
issues are universal. Simply put it is to make sure that everyone who
contributes to creating something is fairly compensated.

One problem is that every word of that last sentence has a huge body of
"clarification" and simple hair splitting attached to it. The word
"fair" probably being the most hotly debated. :-)

Couple all of that with the fact that the people who made the most money
from "creative content" have traditionally been the "gatekeepers" rather
than the creators and the stage is set for the major upheavals that we
are seeing today.

I rather like one sci-fi author's description of his former book
publisher's business as "shipping dead trees with a little creative
content as an afterthought". This person now self-publishes his stories
through his website and claims to make far more money that way!

Needless to say his former publishers disagree. :-)

This is an issue which will be fought out ("debated") for many years
yet. I certainly do not have any "magic pixie dust" that would provide a
good solution.

Karen


This person clearly had several problems, but "piracy" was not one of them!

On 10/18/2011 08:39 AM, Vanish wrote:

> I don't have much else to contribute to this topic, but I wanted to
> thank Karen for this very nice reply, which is a very welcome break from
> the usual hyperbole surrounding the subject.
>
> I'd like to add that copyright is far from being universal around the
> world, and here in germany, for example, the law is less strict than it
> is in the U.S. We don't have the fair-use doctrine, but we do have some
> very clear exceptions from the general copyright (for example, the right
> to make private copies under certain circumstances). As far as
> litigation and actual pursuit of copyright goes, that's another matter
> entirely.
>
> Greetings
> V
>
>> Consider this an introduction to the whole content piracy issue.
>>
>> It is not nearly as one sided as many would have you believe.
>>
>> FWIW, IRL I am a retired IP lawyer so I know something of the issues and
>> the practical results are not very satisfying to either side.
>>
>> For example under current US law if you purchased the "content" on
>> physical media such as a CD or USB stick then you OWN that piece of
>> hardware and can resell it to anyone, provided that you do not keep a
>> copy.
>>
>> However if you merely downloaded the content then you are merely
>> "renting" it!
>>
>> I think you can see why many people on both sides of the issue are upset
>> - we (i.e. judges) simply have not had time to work out what is truly
>> fair to everyone!
>>
>> Another example is the actual statute.
>>
>> If you look up 17 USC 101 (US copyright statutes) then you find about 20
>> line defining what is "protected work" then the next 5000 line define
>> limitations and exceptions that is what is NOT copyright-able!
>>
>> The largest publisher of books n the world (US Govt) cannot copyright
>> anything for example. Teachers and libraries get some blanket exemptions
>> as well.
>>
>> Worse yet, as a content creator myself the "ownership" of content even
>> content that YOU have created is far from clear. Linden Labs lays some
>> claim to YOUR work! The exact nature of this is undefined at present,
>> but at various times they have simply forbidden ALL export of ANY
>> content, even content that I created.
>>
>> At that point I moved all of my stores etc. out of Second Life, and
>> rarely even visit any more.
>>
>> MY solution has been to create stuff on my own private "Diva" grid then
>> IMPORT it wherever I want to use it. Even that gets a hassle from
>> paranoid grid owners sometimes.
>>
>> While I do not condone the piracy that is happening, I do understand the
>> frustration that causes it.
>>
>> Karen
>>
>> On 10/16/2011 10:50 AM, Wayne wrote:
>>> Hi Lindy and thank you.
>>>
>>> I've spent hundreds of dollars on animations in SL and I think it's a
>>> crime
>>> to find that, in essence, I am only renting them.
>>>
>>> Sorry, just had to vent. lol
>>>
>>> Wayne
>>> On Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Lindy Orwin
>>> <[hidden email]>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Wayne
>>>> You can find some animations for free on
>>>> http://www.lindakellie.com/
>>>> Lindy
>>>>
>>>> On 16 October 2011 08:28, Wayne <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone know how to get animations that I purchased in SL to
>>>>> opensim?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Opensim-users mailing list
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>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>> _______________________________________________
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>
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Re: Animations

Robin Turner-2
In reply to this post by Mike Chase
On 16 October 2011 21:47, Mike Chase <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Did you get them as a work for hire?  Have a contract that says you can
> reuse them?  This is no different than software or other intellectual
> property.  Ownership vests in the person that *created* them.  You paid for
> a right to use. And in that case, only in the context of SL; A given since
> there's no way to export them legitimately.  People who create textures
> often include terms of use to address this because textures are more easily
> moved around.  But if you "buy" textures in SL you get them with a right to
> use them, possibly spelled out in a license.  Ownership is still only the
> creator.

At the risk of getting OT here, virtual worlds highlight the probles
with the whole concept of intellectual property. Physical property is
a convention we are relatively comfortable with by virtue of using it
for millenia. Some people (e.g. anarcho-communists) may hate the idea,
but even then it doesn't _confuse_ them. If the law says an object is
mine, I can do what I like with it, including selling, lending or
giving to another person, at which point it may or may not become
theirs according to our agreement. Intellectual property is a
metaphorical extension of physical property and it _is_ confusing
because (a) as a society we are not used to treating ideas as if they
were objects and (b) treating them as though they actually were
objects is impractical. We thus have a legal system (or rather, a
plethora of systems, as V pointed out) which treats ideas as though
they were objects in some ways but not others. In a virtual world,
this gets more confusing because the ideas look like and are treated
as objects in that world. If a buy a physical chair, I can put it in
any home that I own, so I expect to do the same with a virtual chair
and my virtual homes. OTOH, the content creator thinks they own the
chair they created in the same way they would own a chair they made
physically. Both are making reasonable - but incorrect - assumptions
based on the conventions of property in our culture.

Robin

--
"We prefer that you make up whatever rule you like. We are going to
take an aspirin and lie down." ~ The Chicago Manual of Style Q&A

Robin Turner
IDMYO
Bilkent Üniversitesi
Ankara, Turkey

http://about.me/robinturner
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