Branded opensim viewers

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Branded opensim viewers

Dr Ramesh Ramloll
Hello,
Does anyone knows how to go about branding an opensim viewer? I have seen the OSCC one, the MOSES one ... Are branding services available somewhere? 
Thanks
Ramesh

--
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate Research Associate Professor, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: 208-240-0040

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Re: Branded opensim viewers

Kay McLennan
On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 8:55 AM, Dr Ramesh Ramloll <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello,
Does anyone knows how to go about branding an opensim viewer? 


Like Ramesh, I am keenly interested in locating a tutorial with instructions on how to "brand" or "pre-point" a viewer.

Thank you in advance!

Best,
Kay

[Kay McLennan, Tulane University]



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Re: Branded opensim viewers

hack13
This isn't actually that difficult, you will just need to get your
hands on Visual C++ 2010 Express and edit a couple of key files and
recompile it. I don't have the exact instructions for windows, but its
pretty simple.

Timothy Rogers

On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 8:10 AM, Kay McLennan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 8:55 AM, Dr Ramesh Ramloll <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>> Does anyone knows how to go about branding an opensim viewer?
>
>
>
> Like Ramesh, I am keenly interested in locating a tutorial with instructions
> on how to "brand" or "pre-point" a viewer.
>
> Thank you in advance!
>
> Best,
> Kay
>
> [Kay McLennan, Tulane University]
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
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Re: Branded opensim viewers

Tom Willans
In reply to this post by Dr Ramesh Ramloll
Hi,

You compile and modify your own taken initially from one of the other viewer repositories - even if just hardwiring some addresses. Depending upon how much work you want to do and you will probably want to do it for the platforms (Windows, OS X, Linux?) expected for OpenSim. The complexity is maintaining and keeping the viewer up to date by pulling in the changes from other viewers and/or the main linden viewer code.  For firestorm there are instructions for compiling your own http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/start http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/fs_how_to_be_a_good_neighbor.  Don't know if this helps.

Tom




On 18 Feb 2014, at 14:55, Dr Ramesh Ramloll wrote:

Hello,
Does anyone knows how to go about branding an opensim viewer? I have seen the OSCC one, the MOSES one ... Are branding services available somewhere? 
Thanks
Ramesh

--
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate Research Associate Professor, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: 208-240-0040
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Tom Willans  
PhD Student
Coventry University
United Kingdom

+44 (0)121 288 0281
skype: tom.willans
Second Life and OSGrid: Tom Tiros


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Re: Branded opensim viewers

Dr Ramesh Ramloll
Ok cool. I think there is an opportunity here for someone to turn this into a paid service for people like myself who have near zero bandwidth left to play with client code.
Ramesh


On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 10:22 AM, Tom <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

You compile and modify your own taken initially from one of the other viewer repositories - even if just hardwiring some addresses. Depending upon how much work you want to do and you will probably want to do it for the platforms (Windows, OS X, Linux?) expected for OpenSim. The complexity is maintaining and keeping the viewer up to date by pulling in the changes from other viewers and/or the main linden viewer code.  For firestorm there are instructions for compiling your own http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/start http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/fs_how_to_be_a_good_neighbor.  Don't know if this helps.

Tom




On 18 Feb 2014, at 14:55, Dr Ramesh Ramloll wrote:

Hello,
Does anyone knows how to go about branding an opensim viewer? I have seen the OSCC one, the MOSES one ... Are branding services available somewhere? 
Thanks
Ramesh

--
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate Research Associate Professor, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: <a href="tel:208-240-0040" value="+12082400040" target="_blank">208-240-0040
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Tom Willans  
PhD Student
Coventry University
United Kingdom

<a href="tel:%2B44%20%280%29121%20288%200281" value="+441212880281" target="_blank">+44 (0)121 288 0281
skype: tom.willans
Second Life and OSGrid: Tom Tiros


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--
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate Research Associate Professor, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: 208-240-0040

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Re: Branded opensim viewers

Michael Emory Cerquoni
In reply to this post by hack13
You might be the first person ever to say compiling the viewer isnt difficult, lol.  It might not be so difficult if your just doing a windows viewer only, but if you plan to include Linux and Mac viewers as well the difficulty level really goes high, honestly though never heard anyone say compiling the viewer was not difficult.


On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 10:20 AM, Timothy Rogers <[hidden email]> wrote:
This isn't actually that difficult, you will just need to get your
hands on Visual C++ 2010 Express and edit a couple of key files and
recompile it. I don't have the exact instructions for windows, but its
pretty simple.

Timothy Rogers

On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 8:10 AM, Kay McLennan <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 8:55 AM, Dr Ramesh Ramloll <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>> Does anyone knows how to go about branding an opensim viewer?
>
>
>
> Like Ramesh, I am keenly interested in locating a tutorial with instructions
> on how to "brand" or "pre-point" a viewer.
>
> Thank you in advance!
>
> Best,
> Kay
>
> [Kay McLennan, Tulane University]
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



--
Michael Emory Cerquoni

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Re: Branded opensim viewers

hack13
Actually Micheal I found it pretty simple. Granted I said compiling
not doing heavy work on modifying it. I used to compile all my viewers
as I am a straight up linux user, and my viewer hardly ever was
released for my OS.

On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 8:41 AM, Michael Emory Cerquoni
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> You might be the first person ever to say compiling the viewer isnt
> difficult, lol.  It might not be so difficult if your just doing a windows
> viewer only, but if you plan to include Linux and Mac viewers as well the
> difficulty level really goes high, honestly though never heard anyone say
> compiling the viewer was not difficult.
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 10:20 AM, Timothy Rogers
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> This isn't actually that difficult, you will just need to get your
>> hands on Visual C++ 2010 Express and edit a couple of key files and
>> recompile it. I don't have the exact instructions for windows, but its
>> pretty simple.
>>
>> Timothy Rogers
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 8:10 AM, Kay McLennan <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> > On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 8:55 AM, Dr Ramesh Ramloll <[hidden email]>
>>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hello,
>> >> Does anyone knows how to go about branding an opensim viewer?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Like Ramesh, I am keenly interested in locating a tutorial with
>> > instructions
>> > on how to "brand" or "pre-point" a viewer.
>> >
>> > Thank you in advance!
>> >
>> > Best,
>> > Kay
>> >
>> > [Kay McLennan, Tulane University]
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Opensim-users mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>
>
>
> --
> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
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Re: Branded opensim viewers

Gwyneth Llewelyn
In reply to this post by Dr Ramesh Ramloll
Hi Ramesh,

Katharine Berry used to provide branding services for SL clients (https://my.secondlife.com/katharine.berry). She did extraordinary work back then (and charged a relatively modest fee to keep the viewers up-to-date), had her own viewer, and joined several other viewer projects. However, since her college days at MIT, and with her recent move to Palo Alto to work at Pebble, she might simply not have enough time for anything else these days. Before Katharine, my company used Jacek Antonelli and her team to provide us with a branded viewer. Jacek, however, gave up on doing any further viewer work a long time ago.

You might also approach individual TPV teams and ask them for a branded version of their viewer. Some might be interested in that as a source of revenue to sponsor the continued development of a TPV.

If you go the route of compiling it on your own, one possibility is to use the approach of the Cool VL Viewer team. They start with LL's own code for Snowglobe and just release patches to it (in your case, the patches would just deal with the branding). I don't know if it's "easier" to maintain a viewer that way or not. It's been many, many years since I bothered to compile the viewer myself, but, in my case, I can certainly say that it was no mean task, and the resulting viewer was never as optimized as the viewers provided by LL or TPV teams — probably because I'm simply not knowleadgeable enough to know what options to turn on to keep optimization at a maximum :)

Good luck!

- Gwyn

On 18/02/2014, at 14:55, Dr Ramesh Ramloll wrote:

Hello,
Does anyone knows how to go about branding an opensim viewer? I have seen the OSCC one, the MOSES one ... Are branding services available somewhere? 
Thanks
Ramesh

--
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate Research Associate Professor, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: 208-240-0040
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Re: Branded opensim viewers

Kay McLennan
As an alternative to re-branding 3 different versions of a viewer (to match 3 different operating systems) each time a viewer is upgraded, would it be possible to develop viewers that utilize web browser-like addresses (?).  What I have in mind is being able to type (or copy) a grid's login URL directly into the "Grid" text box.  In this way, there is no need to:  (1) re-brand viewers; or (2) go through all of the steps needed to add a grid to a viewer via the "Grid Manager" feature.  

Again, wouldn't it be easier to develop viewers that enable users to simply type a grid URL into the grid name box (?).   

-- Kay


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Re: Branded opensim viewers

Diva Canto
Singularity already has this.

On 2/19/2014 4:42 AM, Kay McLennan wrote:
As an alternative to re-branding 3 different versions of a viewer (to match 3 different operating systems) each time a viewer is upgraded, would it be possible to develop viewers that utilize web browser-like addresses (?).  What I have in mind is being able to type (or copy) a grid's login URL directly into the "Grid" text box.  In this way, there is no need to:  (1) re-brand viewers; or (2) go through all of the steps needed to add a grid to a viewer via the "Grid Manager" feature.  

Again, wouldn't it be easier to develop viewers that enable users to simply type a grid URL into the grid name box (?).   

-- Kay



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Re: Branded opensim viewers

Kay McLennan
Diva, et al,

Thank you for the heads-up on the availability of "browser-like access to a grid via the Grid text box" feature [ALREADY!] in the Singularity viewer.  Also, I had to see it for myself and am gleeful to report how this Singularity feature worked like a charm!

-- Kay



On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 8:41 AM, Diva Canto <[hidden email]> wrote:
Singularity already has this.

On 2/19/2014 4:42 AM, Kay McLennan wrote:
As an alternative to re-branding 3 different versions of a viewer (to match 3 different operating systems) each time a viewer is upgraded, would it be possible to develop viewers that utilize web browser-like addresses (?).  What I have in mind is being able to type (or copy) a grid's login URL directly into the "Grid" text box.  In this way, there is no need to:  (1) re-brand viewers; or (2) go through all of the steps needed to add a grid to a viewer via the "Grid Manager" feature.  

Again, wouldn't it be easier to develop viewers that enable users to simply type a grid URL into the grid name box (?).   

-- Kay



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Re: Branded opensim viewers

Dr Ramesh Ramloll
In reply to this post by Diva Canto
Kay, I think there are a number of things that need tailoring in addition to the ability of adding a grid (which as diva pointed is available in singularity). For my user base, no one will ever be interested to do even that (no interest => will never learn). I was hoping for some configuration file that can contain the needed custom data e.g. list of names of regions, urls to pictures of various regions etc.. and once the user downloads the viewer+drop the custom config file in the same folder, the config file is read and all the important pieces set on application launch. So may be working with tpv developers can help .... I definitely think that the only things the casual user should know is how to navigate, click/touch, and voice chat. The rest is for us.


On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 9:41 AM, Diva Canto <[hidden email]> wrote:
Singularity already has this.

On 2/19/2014 4:42 AM, Kay McLennan wrote:
As an alternative to re-branding 3 different versions of a viewer (to match 3 different operating systems) each time a viewer is upgraded, would it be possible to develop viewers that utilize web browser-like addresses (?).  What I have in mind is being able to type (or copy) a grid's login URL directly into the "Grid" text box.  In this way, there is no need to:  (1) re-brand viewers; or (2) go through all of the steps needed to add a grid to a viewer via the "Grid Manager" feature.  

Again, wouldn't it be easier to develop viewers that enable users to simply type a grid URL into the grid name box (?).   

-- Kay



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--
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate Research Associate Professor, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: 208-240-0040

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Re: Branded opensim viewers

Robert L martin
On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 10:45 AM, Dr Ramesh Ramloll <[hidden email]> wrote:
> So may be working with tpv developers can help .... I definitely think that
> the only things the casual user should know is how to navigate, click/touch,
> and voice chat. The rest is for us.
a few features would be nifty for Custom Grids
1 the ability to discard parts of and otherwise preset the interface
2 a simple way to set grid info (bonus points if it can preset account info)
3 preset settings (like RLV On/Off) to ensure the setup is "correct"


One thing i would like to see is a Viewer with an internal "sandbox"
region to help in doing design work and such.


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Re: Branded opensim viewers

Diva Canto
In reply to this post by Dr Ramesh Ramloll
I don't know about "branding" viewers, that's a whole other issue. But regarding the process to make these environments easily accessible to newcomers, I have some advice.

A setup guide with painfully clear instructions works very well for people who have never used this system before. I'm making the one I wrote publicly available for non-commercial use, feel free to direct your users to it:

http://www.ics.uci.edu/~lopes/opensim/SingularitySetupGuide.pdf
I usually send this setup guide by email along with the two URLs that people need, one in step 1 and the other in step 4. In the email, I let them know that they will need those URLs in those steps.

So far, I've had zero problems with people configuring things and login.

Interacting while inside the world is another story, as these environments are extremely confusing for people who aren't used to them. For those of you designing educational settings in opensim, my recommendation is to design your environments so that people have a lot less degrees of freedom than what these viewers provide. For example, have people login to an environment with chairs/sits, and immediately have them click on a chair and sit down. The chairs should have scripts for controlling their cameras, so that they look at exactly the right thing, whatever that is.

I wrote about some of these design issues here:
http://tagide.com/blog/2013/03/design-and-implementation-of-a-virtual-collaboration-environment/

I've made peace with the fact that we have a complicated client software that people need to install and configure. The way to mitigate the complexity for newcomers is threefold:

(1) avoid the Grid Manager altogether and use the grid textbox for the login URL, which, thank god!, the Singularity developers already did;

(2) provide setup guides that are as clear as possible (we're not the only ones doing this, btw; many web conferencing systems also require software installation and configuration); and

(3) design your environments so that they are as simple as possible -- these environments have too many degrees of freedom, but it's possible to reduce them.


On 2/19/2014 7:45 AM, Dr Ramesh Ramloll wrote:
Kay, I think there are a number of things that need tailoring in addition to the ability of adding a grid (which as diva pointed is available in singularity). For my user base, no one will ever be interested to do even that (no interest => will never learn). I was hoping for some configuration file that can contain the needed custom data e.g. list of names of regions, urls to pictures of various regions etc.. and once the user downloads the viewer+drop the custom config file in the same folder, the config file is read and all the important pieces set on application launch. So may be working with tpv developers can help .... I definitely think that the only things the casual user should know is how to navigate, click/touch, and voice chat. The rest is for us.


On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 9:41 AM, Diva Canto <[hidden email]> wrote:
Singularity already has this.

On 2/19/2014 4:42 AM, Kay McLennan wrote:
As an alternative to re-branding 3 different versions of a viewer (to match 3 different operating systems) each time a viewer is upgraded, would it be possible to develop viewers that utilize web browser-like addresses (?).  What I have in mind is being able to type (or copy) a grid's login URL directly into the "Grid" text box.  In this way, there is no need to:  (1) re-brand viewers; or (2) go through all of the steps needed to add a grid to a viewer via the "Grid Manager" feature.  

Again, wouldn't it be easier to develop viewers that enable users to simply type a grid URL into the grid name box (?).   

-- Kay



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'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
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Re: Branded opensim viewers

Dr Ramesh Ramloll
Thanks Robert, Crista, great tips.


On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 11:49 AM, Diva Canto <[hidden email]> wrote:
I don't know about "branding" viewers, that's a whole other issue. But regarding the process to make these environments easily accessible to newcomers, I have some advice.

A setup guide with painfully clear instructions works very well for people who have never used this system before. I'm making the one I wrote publicly available for non-commercial use, feel free to direct your users to it:

http://www.ics.uci.edu/~lopes/opensim/SingularitySetupGuide.pdf
I usually send this setup guide by email along with the two URLs that people need, one in step 1 and the other in step 4. In the email, I let them know that they will need those URLs in those steps.

So far, I've had zero problems with people configuring things and login.

Interacting while inside the world is another story, as these environments are extremely confusing for people who aren't used to them. For those of you designing educational settings in opensim, my recommendation is to design your environments so that people have a lot less degrees of freedom than what these viewers provide. For example, have people login to an environment with chairs/sits, and immediately have them click on a chair and sit down. The chairs should have scripts for controlling their cameras, so that they look at exactly the right thing, whatever that is.

I wrote about some of these design issues here:
http://tagide.com/blog/2013/03/design-and-implementation-of-a-virtual-collaboration-environment/

I've made peace with the fact that we have a complicated client software that people need to install and configure. The way to mitigate the complexity for newcomers is threefold:

(1) avoid the Grid Manager altogether and use the grid textbox for the login URL, which, thank god!, the Singularity developers already did;

(2) provide setup guides that are as clear as possible (we're not the only ones doing this, btw; many web conferencing systems also require software installation and configuration); and

(3) design your environments so that they are as simple as possible -- these environments have too many degrees of freedom, but it's possible to reduce them.


On 2/19/2014 7:45 AM, Dr Ramesh Ramloll wrote:
Kay, I think there are a number of things that need tailoring in addition to the ability of adding a grid (which as diva pointed is available in singularity). For my user base, no one will ever be interested to do even that (no interest => will never learn). I was hoping for some configuration file that can contain the needed custom data e.g. list of names of regions, urls to pictures of various regions etc.. and once the user downloads the viewer+drop the custom config file in the same folder, the config file is read and all the important pieces set on application launch. So may be working with tpv developers can help .... I definitely think that the only things the casual user should know is how to navigate, click/touch, and voice chat. The rest is for us.


On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 9:41 AM, Diva Canto <[hidden email]> wrote:
Singularity already has this.

On 2/19/2014 4:42 AM, Kay McLennan wrote:
As an alternative to re-branding 3 different versions of a viewer (to match 3 different operating systems) each time a viewer is upgraded, would it be possible to develop viewers that utilize web browser-like addresses (?).  What I have in mind is being able to type (or copy) a grid's login URL directly into the "Grid" text box.  In this way, there is no need to:  (1) re-brand viewers; or (2) go through all of the steps needed to add a grid to a viewer via the "Grid Manager" feature.  

Again, wouldn't it be easier to develop viewers that enable users to simply type a grid URL into the grid name box (?).   

-- Kay



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--
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate Research Associate Professor, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: <a href="tel:208-240-0040" value="+12082400040" target="_blank">208-240-0040


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--
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate Research Associate Professor, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: 208-240-0040

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Re: Branded opensim viewers

Mic Bowman
In reply to this post by Diva Canto
I have a related question... for a while simian provided a separate "launcher" application could launch a viewer and embed in the login URI your openid credentials (the launcher app when installed registered with the internet browser as a handler for a URL scheme). It was pretty nice because there was no need to set up login uris in the viewer at all (and you didn't have to "login" if you had an authenticated OpenID). I still have the code but it relied on the viewers supporting the command line "--loginuri" switch so it stopped working when the viewers stopped supporting that switch.

At this point... i'm interested in one of two login/startup options:

Option 1: provide a URL in a web page which, when clicked on, would launch the viewer with the login uri embedded (obviously supporting an openid authentication would be nice too). 

Option 2: provide a URL for a hypergrid link which, when clicked on, would log you into your home grid with the startup region a hypergridded region.

I kind of prefer the second option because it doesn't require account creation... but either one would help us with the login uri configuration problem.

--mic



On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 8:49 AM, Diva Canto <[hidden email]> wrote:
I don't know about "branding" viewers, that's a whole other issue. But regarding the process to make these environments easily accessible to newcomers, I have some advice.

A setup guide with painfully clear instructions works very well for people who have never used this system before. I'm making the one I wrote publicly available for non-commercial use, feel free to direct your users to it:

http://www.ics.uci.edu/~lopes/opensim/SingularitySetupGuide.pdf
I usually send this setup guide by email along with the two URLs that people need, one in step 1 and the other in step 4. In the email, I let them know that they will need those URLs in those steps.

So far, I've had zero problems with people configuring things and login.

Interacting while inside the world is another story, as these environments are extremely confusing for people who aren't used to them. For those of you designing educational settings in opensim, my recommendation is to design your environments so that people have a lot less degrees of freedom than what these viewers provide. For example, have people login to an environment with chairs/sits, and immediately have them click on a chair and sit down. The chairs should have scripts for controlling their cameras, so that they look at exactly the right thing, whatever that is.

I wrote about some of these design issues here:
http://tagide.com/blog/2013/03/design-and-implementation-of-a-virtual-collaboration-environment/

I've made peace with the fact that we have a complicated client software that people need to install and configure. The way to mitigate the complexity for newcomers is threefold:

(1) avoid the Grid Manager altogether and use the grid textbox for the login URL, which, thank god!, the Singularity developers already did;

(2) provide setup guides that are as clear as possible (we're not the only ones doing this, btw; many web conferencing systems also require software installation and configuration); and

(3) design your environments so that they are as simple as possible -- these environments have too many degrees of freedom, but it's possible to reduce them.


On 2/19/2014 7:45 AM, Dr Ramesh Ramloll wrote:
Kay, I think there are a number of things that need tailoring in addition to the ability of adding a grid (which as diva pointed is available in singularity). For my user base, no one will ever be interested to do even that (no interest => will never learn). I was hoping for some configuration file that can contain the needed custom data e.g. list of names of regions, urls to pictures of various regions etc.. and once the user downloads the viewer+drop the custom config file in the same folder, the config file is read and all the important pieces set on application launch. So may be working with tpv developers can help .... I definitely think that the only things the casual user should know is how to navigate, click/touch, and voice chat. The rest is for us.


On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 9:41 AM, Diva Canto <[hidden email]> wrote:
Singularity already has this.

On 2/19/2014 4:42 AM, Kay McLennan wrote:
As an alternative to re-branding 3 different versions of a viewer (to match 3 different operating systems) each time a viewer is upgraded, would it be possible to develop viewers that utilize web browser-like addresses (?).  What I have in mind is being able to type (or copy) a grid's login URL directly into the "Grid" text box.  In this way, there is no need to:  (1) re-brand viewers; or (2) go through all of the steps needed to add a grid to a viewer via the "Grid Manager" feature.  

Again, wouldn't it be easier to develop viewers that enable users to simply type a grid URL into the grid name box (?).   

-- Kay



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Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate Research Associate Professor, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: <a href="tel:208-240-0040" value="+12082400040" target="_blank">208-240-0040


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Re: Branded opensim viewers

Moriz Gupte
Hi mic,
Kitely implemented the approach you suggested but due to some changes with chrome (and some of the other browsers I think), now the recommended way to log in is through the viewer. Illan or Oren can perhaps tell us more or correct me.
Ramesh


On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 1:53 PM, Mic Bowman <[hidden email]> wrote:
I have a related question... for a while simian provided a separate "launcher" application could launch a viewer and embed in the login URI your openid credentials (the launcher app when installed registered with the internet browser as a handler for a URL scheme). It was pretty nice because there was no need to set up login uris in the viewer at all (and you didn't have to "login" if you had an authenticated OpenID). I still have the code but it relied on the viewers supporting the command line "--loginuri" switch so it stopped working when the viewers stopped supporting that switch.

At this point... i'm interested in one of two login/startup options:

Option 1: provide a URL in a web page which, when clicked on, would launch the viewer with the login uri embedded (obviously supporting an openid authentication would be nice too). 

Option 2: provide a URL for a hypergrid link which, when clicked on, would log you into your home grid with the startup region a hypergridded region.

I kind of prefer the second option because it doesn't require account creation... but either one would help us with the login uri configuration problem.

--mic



On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 8:49 AM, Diva Canto <[hidden email]> wrote:
I don't know about "branding" viewers, that's a whole other issue. But regarding the process to make these environments easily accessible to newcomers, I have some advice.

A setup guide with painfully clear instructions works very well for people who have never used this system before. I'm making the one I wrote publicly available for non-commercial use, feel free to direct your users to it:

http://www.ics.uci.edu/~lopes/opensim/SingularitySetupGuide.pdf
I usually send this setup guide by email along with the two URLs that people need, one in step 1 and the other in step 4. In the email, I let them know that they will need those URLs in those steps.

So far, I've had zero problems with people configuring things and login.

Interacting while inside the world is another story, as these environments are extremely confusing for people who aren't used to them. For those of you designing educational settings in opensim, my recommendation is to design your environments so that people have a lot less degrees of freedom than what these viewers provide. For example, have people login to an environment with chairs/sits, and immediately have them click on a chair and sit down. The chairs should have scripts for controlling their cameras, so that they look at exactly the right thing, whatever that is.

I wrote about some of these design issues here:
http://tagide.com/blog/2013/03/design-and-implementation-of-a-virtual-collaboration-environment/

I've made peace with the fact that we have a complicated client software that people need to install and configure. The way to mitigate the complexity for newcomers is threefold:

(1) avoid the Grid Manager altogether and use the grid textbox for the login URL, which, thank god!, the Singularity developers already did;

(2) provide setup guides that are as clear as possible (we're not the only ones doing this, btw; many web conferencing systems also require software installation and configuration); and

(3) design your environments so that they are as simple as possible -- these environments have too many degrees of freedom, but it's possible to reduce them.


On 2/19/2014 7:45 AM, Dr Ramesh Ramloll wrote:
Kay, I think there are a number of things that need tailoring in addition to the ability of adding a grid (which as diva pointed is available in singularity). For my user base, no one will ever be interested to do even that (no interest => will never learn). I was hoping for some configuration file that can contain the needed custom data e.g. list of names of regions, urls to pictures of various regions etc.. and once the user downloads the viewer+drop the custom config file in the same folder, the config file is read and all the important pieces set on application launch. So may be working with tpv developers can help .... I definitely think that the only things the casual user should know is how to navigate, click/touch, and voice chat. The rest is for us.


On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 9:41 AM, Diva Canto <[hidden email]> wrote:
Singularity already has this.

On 2/19/2014 4:42 AM, Kay McLennan wrote:
As an alternative to re-branding 3 different versions of a viewer (to match 3 different operating systems) each time a viewer is upgraded, would it be possible to develop viewers that utilize web browser-like addresses (?).  What I have in mind is being able to type (or copy) a grid's login URL directly into the "Grid" text box.  In this way, there is no need to:  (1) re-brand viewers; or (2) go through all of the steps needed to add a grid to a viewer via the "Grid Manager" feature.  

Again, wouldn't it be easier to develop viewers that enable users to simply type a grid URL into the grid name box (?).   

-- Kay



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'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate Research Associate Professor, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: <a href="tel:208-240-0040" value="+12082400040" target="_blank">208-240-0040


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'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD, Research Associate Professor, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: 208-282-5333

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Re: Branded opensim viewers

Mic Bowman
Thanks, Ramesh... 

Which option does kitely support? 

Do you know how the viewer gets started? Do singularity or firestorm support the loginuri command line switch? 

I've thought about resurrecting the simian launcher code & seeing if i could get it to work again... the openid support is still there in siman, i just dont think its been tested in several years.

--mic



On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 10:56 AM, Moriz Gupte <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi mic,
Kitely implemented the approach you suggested but due to some changes with chrome (and some of the other browsers I think), now the recommended way to log in is through the viewer. Illan or Oren can perhaps tell us more or correct me.
Ramesh


On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 1:53 PM, Mic Bowman <[hidden email]> wrote:
I have a related question... for a while simian provided a separate "launcher" application could launch a viewer and embed in the login URI your openid credentials (the launcher app when installed registered with the internet browser as a handler for a URL scheme). It was pretty nice because there was no need to set up login uris in the viewer at all (and you didn't have to "login" if you had an authenticated OpenID). I still have the code but it relied on the viewers supporting the command line "--loginuri" switch so it stopped working when the viewers stopped supporting that switch.

At this point... i'm interested in one of two login/startup options:

Option 1: provide a URL in a web page which, when clicked on, would launch the viewer with the login uri embedded (obviously supporting an openid authentication would be nice too). 

Option 2: provide a URL for a hypergrid link which, when clicked on, would log you into your home grid with the startup region a hypergridded region.

I kind of prefer the second option because it doesn't require account creation... but either one would help us with the login uri configuration problem.

--mic



On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 8:49 AM, Diva Canto <[hidden email]> wrote:
I don't know about "branding" viewers, that's a whole other issue. But regarding the process to make these environments easily accessible to newcomers, I have some advice.

A setup guide with painfully clear instructions works very well for people who have never used this system before. I'm making the one I wrote publicly available for non-commercial use, feel free to direct your users to it:

http://www.ics.uci.edu/~lopes/opensim/SingularitySetupGuide.pdf
I usually send this setup guide by email along with the two URLs that people need, one in step 1 and the other in step 4. In the email, I let them know that they will need those URLs in those steps.

So far, I've had zero problems with people configuring things and login.

Interacting while inside the world is another story, as these environments are extremely confusing for people who aren't used to them. For those of you designing educational settings in opensim, my recommendation is to design your environments so that people have a lot less degrees of freedom than what these viewers provide. For example, have people login to an environment with chairs/sits, and immediately have them click on a chair and sit down. The chairs should have scripts for controlling their cameras, so that they look at exactly the right thing, whatever that is.

I wrote about some of these design issues here:
http://tagide.com/blog/2013/03/design-and-implementation-of-a-virtual-collaboration-environment/

I've made peace with the fact that we have a complicated client software that people need to install and configure. The way to mitigate the complexity for newcomers is threefold:

(1) avoid the Grid Manager altogether and use the grid textbox for the login URL, which, thank god!, the Singularity developers already did;

(2) provide setup guides that are as clear as possible (we're not the only ones doing this, btw; many web conferencing systems also require software installation and configuration); and

(3) design your environments so that they are as simple as possible -- these environments have too many degrees of freedom, but it's possible to reduce them.


On 2/19/2014 7:45 AM, Dr Ramesh Ramloll wrote:
Kay, I think there are a number of things that need tailoring in addition to the ability of adding a grid (which as diva pointed is available in singularity). For my user base, no one will ever be interested to do even that (no interest => will never learn). I was hoping for some configuration file that can contain the needed custom data e.g. list of names of regions, urls to pictures of various regions etc.. and once the user downloads the viewer+drop the custom config file in the same folder, the config file is read and all the important pieces set on application launch. So may be working with tpv developers can help .... I definitely think that the only things the casual user should know is how to navigate, click/touch, and voice chat. The rest is for us.


On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 9:41 AM, Diva Canto <[hidden email]> wrote:
Singularity already has this.

On 2/19/2014 4:42 AM, Kay McLennan wrote:
As an alternative to re-branding 3 different versions of a viewer (to match 3 different operating systems) each time a viewer is upgraded, would it be possible to develop viewers that utilize web browser-like addresses (?).  What I have in mind is being able to type (or copy) a grid's login URL directly into the "Grid" text box.  In this way, there is no need to:  (1) re-brand viewers; or (2) go through all of the steps needed to add a grid to a viewer via the "Grid Manager" feature.  

Again, wouldn't it be easier to develop viewers that enable users to simply type a grid URL into the grid name box (?).   

-- Kay



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--
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate Research Associate Professor, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: <a href="tel:208-240-0040" value="+12082400040" target="_blank">208-240-0040


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'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD, Research Associate Professor, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: <a href="tel:208-282-5333" value="+12082825333" target="_blank">208-282-5333

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Re: Branded opensim viewers

Dr Ramesh Ramloll
Hi Mic, I used to click on a big blue button on a web page to launch the viewer automatically and I would land where I am supposed, but I don't use this any more, I am not even sure if it still works, probably not. I do not know exactly how the browser viewer link was made before.
R


On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 2:15 PM, Mic Bowman <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks, Ramesh... 

Which option does kitely support? 

Do you know how the viewer gets started? Do singularity or firestorm support the loginuri command line switch? 

I've thought about resurrecting the simian launcher code & seeing if i could get it to work again... the openid support is still there in siman, i just dont think its been tested in several years.

--mic



On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 10:56 AM, Moriz Gupte <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi mic,
Kitely implemented the approach you suggested but due to some changes with chrome (and some of the other browsers I think), now the recommended way to log in is through the viewer. Illan or Oren can perhaps tell us more or correct me.
Ramesh


On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 1:53 PM, Mic Bowman <[hidden email]> wrote:
I have a related question... for a while simian provided a separate "launcher" application could launch a viewer and embed in the login URI your openid credentials (the launcher app when installed registered with the internet browser as a handler for a URL scheme). It was pretty nice because there was no need to set up login uris in the viewer at all (and you didn't have to "login" if you had an authenticated OpenID). I still have the code but it relied on the viewers supporting the command line "--loginuri" switch so it stopped working when the viewers stopped supporting that switch.

At this point... i'm interested in one of two login/startup options:

Option 1: provide a URL in a web page which, when clicked on, would launch the viewer with the login uri embedded (obviously supporting an openid authentication would be nice too). 

Option 2: provide a URL for a hypergrid link which, when clicked on, would log you into your home grid with the startup region a hypergridded region.

I kind of prefer the second option because it doesn't require account creation... but either one would help us with the login uri configuration problem.

--mic



On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 8:49 AM, Diva Canto <[hidden email]> wrote:
I don't know about "branding" viewers, that's a whole other issue. But regarding the process to make these environments easily accessible to newcomers, I have some advice.

A setup guide with painfully clear instructions works very well for people who have never used this system before. I'm making the one I wrote publicly available for non-commercial use, feel free to direct your users to it:

http://www.ics.uci.edu/~lopes/opensim/SingularitySetupGuide.pdf
I usually send this setup guide by email along with the two URLs that people need, one in step 1 and the other in step 4. In the email, I let them know that they will need those URLs in those steps.

So far, I've had zero problems with people configuring things and login.

Interacting while inside the world is another story, as these environments are extremely confusing for people who aren't used to them. For those of you designing educational settings in opensim, my recommendation is to design your environments so that people have a lot less degrees of freedom than what these viewers provide. For example, have people login to an environment with chairs/sits, and immediately have them click on a chair and sit down. The chairs should have scripts for controlling their cameras, so that they look at exactly the right thing, whatever that is.

I wrote about some of these design issues here:
http://tagide.com/blog/2013/03/design-and-implementation-of-a-virtual-collaboration-environment/

I've made peace with the fact that we have a complicated client software that people need to install and configure. The way to mitigate the complexity for newcomers is threefold:

(1) avoid the Grid Manager altogether and use the grid textbox for the login URL, which, thank god!, the Singularity developers already did;

(2) provide setup guides that are as clear as possible (we're not the only ones doing this, btw; many web conferencing systems also require software installation and configuration); and

(3) design your environments so that they are as simple as possible -- these environments have too many degrees of freedom, but it's possible to reduce them.


On 2/19/2014 7:45 AM, Dr Ramesh Ramloll wrote:
Kay, I think there are a number of things that need tailoring in addition to the ability of adding a grid (which as diva pointed is available in singularity). For my user base, no one will ever be interested to do even that (no interest => will never learn). I was hoping for some configuration file that can contain the needed custom data e.g. list of names of regions, urls to pictures of various regions etc.. and once the user downloads the viewer+drop the custom config file in the same folder, the config file is read and all the important pieces set on application launch. So may be working with tpv developers can help .... I definitely think that the only things the casual user should know is how to navigate, click/touch, and voice chat. The rest is for us.


On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 9:41 AM, Diva Canto <[hidden email]> wrote:
Singularity already has this.

On 2/19/2014 4:42 AM, Kay McLennan wrote:
As an alternative to re-branding 3 different versions of a viewer (to match 3 different operating systems) each time a viewer is upgraded, would it be possible to develop viewers that utilize web browser-like addresses (?).  What I have in mind is being able to type (or copy) a grid's login URL directly into the "Grid" text box.  In this way, there is no need to:  (1) re-brand viewers; or (2) go through all of the steps needed to add a grid to a viewer via the "Grid Manager" feature.  

Again, wouldn't it be easier to develop viewers that enable users to simply type a grid URL into the grid name box (?).   

-- Kay



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--
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate Research Associate Professor, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: <a href="tel:208-240-0040" value="+12082400040" target="_blank">208-240-0040


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'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD, Research Associate Professor, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: <a href="tel:208-282-5333" value="+12082825333" target="_blank">208-282-5333

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--
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate Research Associate Professor, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: 208-240-0040

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Re: Branded opensim viewers

Jeff Kelley
In reply to this post by Mic Bowman
At 10:53 AM -0800 19/2/14, Mic Bowman wrote:

>  for a while simian provided a separate "launcher" application could
>launch a viewer
>and embed in the login URI your openid credentials (the launcher app
>when installed
>registered with the internet browser as a handler for a URL scheme).
>It was pretty nice
>because there was no need to set up login uris in the viewer at all
>(and you didn't have
>to "login" if you had an authenticated OpenID).


Most viewers parse the invocation arguments for grid and credentials,
so it is easy to launch them from a command line or another
executable. I never use the mouse to launch the viewer, instead I
type 'path_to_exe --loginuri -login' in a terminal, using predefined
bash variables for different grids, like "impru $OSG" to log into
OSGrid with Imprudence.

You can easily craft a launcher app which does the same thing.

Passing arguments directly  from a web page to the viewer seems a
complex issue since handling of external apps may differ from a
browser to another. Usually, they don't like things that does not
conform to URI syntax, some hazardous encoding has to be used.



-- Jeff
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