Cannot load inventory

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Cannot load inventory

George Anastassakis
Hi all

(This is my first attempt to seek help on specific OpenSim-related
issues so apologies if this is not the right place or way to ask my
question.)

On a grid setup of one ROBUST server and numerous simulators I am unable
to load inventories for the past couple of days, while there was no
similar problem before. More specifically, I am able to load users'
inventories in Firestorm but no OpenSim library (remains in a "loading"
state), while I cannot load any inventory in other viewers (e.g.,
Singularity). Interestingly, inventories seem to load correctly in the
older Imprudence viewer. There are a number of users in the grid so I
cannot be sure at the moment if the problem began in relation to some
user's action.

The grid runs on OpenSim 0.7.6 and MySQL 5.5 on a number of MS Windows
Server machines (which I believe are properly firewalled).

Any ideas on why this may happen or how I should go about
troubleshooting it? Pointers to detailed information on how inventory
information is retrieved on grid setups and what services are involved
will also be immensely appreciated.

Thanks all in advance

George

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Re: Cannot load inventory

hack13
So sounds like an issue with HTTP inventory, you can tell your viewer
to not use HTTP inventory from the preferences or from the advance
menu.

On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 1:01 PM, George Anastassakis <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi all
>
> (This is my first attempt to seek help on specific OpenSim-related issues so
> apologies if this is not the right place or way to ask my question.)
>
> On a grid setup of one ROBUST server and numerous simulators I am unable to
> load inventories for the past couple of days, while there was no similar
> problem before. More specifically, I am able to load users' inventories in
> Firestorm but no OpenSim library (remains in a "loading" state), while I
> cannot load any inventory in other viewers (e.g., Singularity).
> Interestingly, inventories seem to load correctly in the older Imprudence
> viewer. There are a number of users in the grid so I cannot be sure at the
> moment if the problem began in relation to some user's action.
>
> The grid runs on OpenSim 0.7.6 and MySQL 5.5 on a number of MS Windows
> Server machines (which I believe are properly firewalled).
>
> Any ideas on why this may happen or how I should go about troubleshooting
> it? Pointers to detailed information on how inventory information is
> retrieved on grid setups and what services are involved will also be
> immensely appreciated.
>
> Thanks all in advance
>
> George
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
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Re: Cannot load inventory

George Anastassakis
That seems to solve the problem, thanks a lot!

However, I would really appreciate any pointers to relevant
documentation. So, except
http://opensimulator.org/wiki/InventoryService, is there anywhere else I
can read more about the inventory and related services and processes?

Thanks

On 17/12/2013 10:12 μμ, Timothy Rogers wrote:

> So sounds like an issue with HTTP inventory, you can tell your viewer
> to not use HTTP inventory from the preferences or from the advance
> menu.
>
> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 1:01 PM, George Anastassakis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi all
>>
>> (This is my first attempt to seek help on specific OpenSim-related issues so
>> apologies if this is not the right place or way to ask my question.)
>>
>> On a grid setup of one ROBUST server and numerous simulators I am unable to
>> load inventories for the past couple of days, while there was no similar
>> problem before. More specifically, I am able to load users' inventories in
>> Firestorm but no OpenSim library (remains in a "loading" state), while I
>> cannot load any inventory in other viewers (e.g., Singularity).
>> Interestingly, inventories seem to load correctly in the older Imprudence
>> viewer. There are a number of users in the grid so I cannot be sure at the
>> moment if the problem began in relation to some user's action.
>>
>> The grid runs on OpenSim 0.7.6 and MySQL 5.5 on a number of MS Windows
>> Server machines (which I believe are properly firewalled).
>>
>> Any ideas on why this may happen or how I should go about troubleshooting
>> it? Pointers to detailed information on how inventory information is
>> retrieved on grid setups and what services are involved will also be
>> immensely appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks all in advance
>>
>> George
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>

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Re: Cannot load inventory

justincc
Hi George.  There isn't much on this, so I just wrote a scratch page at [1] which specifically address the inventory
protocols between viewer and OpenSimulator.

However, this may not be quite what you wanted, so if there are more things you want to know, please ask on this mailing
list - it's a good push to jot down some of this stuff.

In your specific case, I'm not sure why the OpenSimulator library would fail in particular with HTTP and not UDP.  As
with many things, try clearing the viewer cache if you haven't already.

However, it's curious that this would fail with multiple viewers.  I haven't heard of this before.  For the library
stuff in particular, this is a somewhat broken part of OpenSimulator imo so I'm not surprised that it's buggy.

[1] http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OpenSimulatorToViewerInventoryProtocol

On 17/12/13 22:29, George Anastassakis wrote:

> That seems to solve the problem, thanks a lot!
>
> However, I would really appreciate any pointers to relevant documentation. So, except
> http://opensimulator.org/wiki/InventoryService, is there anywhere else I can read more about the inventory and related
> services and processes?
>
> Thanks
>
> On 17/12/2013 10:12 μμ, Timothy Rogers wrote:
>> So sounds like an issue with HTTP inventory, you can tell your viewer
>> to not use HTTP inventory from the preferences or from the advance
>> menu.
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 1:01 PM, George Anastassakis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Hi all
>>>
>>> (This is my first attempt to seek help on specific OpenSim-related issues so
>>> apologies if this is not the right place or way to ask my question.)
>>>
>>> On a grid setup of one ROBUST server and numerous simulators I am unable to
>>> load inventories for the past couple of days, while there was no similar
>>> problem before. More specifically, I am able to load users' inventories in
>>> Firestorm but no OpenSim library (remains in a "loading" state), while I
>>> cannot load any inventory in other viewers (e.g., Singularity).
>>> Interestingly, inventories seem to load correctly in the older Imprudence
>>> viewer. There are a number of users in the grid so I cannot be sure at the
>>> moment if the problem began in relation to some user's action.
>>>
>>> The grid runs on OpenSim 0.7.6 and MySQL 5.5 on a number of MS Windows
>>> Server machines (which I believe are properly firewalled).
>>>
>>> Any ideas on why this may happen or how I should go about troubleshooting
>>> it? Pointers to detailed information on how inventory information is
>>> retrieved on grid setups and what services are involved will also be
>>> immensely appreciated.
>>>
>>> Thanks all in advance
>>>
>>> George
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


--
Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
OSVW Consulting
http://justincc.org
http://twitter.com/justincc
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Re: Cannot load inventory

bertrand lebert
Hello Justin

I have asked to you a meeting on line. Is that a problem for you. Tell me.
Best regard
Bertrand Lebert
 
Le 18 déc. 2013 à 02:12, Justin Clark-Casey <[hidden email]> a écrit :

> Hi George.  There isn't much on this, so I just wrote a scratch page at [1] which specifically address the inventory protocols between viewer and OpenSimulator.
>
> However, this may not be quite what you wanted, so if there are more things you want to know, please ask on this mailing list - it's a good push to jot down some of this stuff.
>
> In your specific case, I'm not sure why the OpenSimulator library would fail in particular with HTTP and not UDP.  As with many things, try clearing the viewer cache if you haven't already.
>
> However, it's curious that this would fail with multiple viewers.  I haven't heard of this before.  For the library stuff in particular, this is a somewhat broken part of OpenSimulator imo so I'm not surprised that it's buggy.
>
> [1] http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OpenSimulatorToViewerInventoryProtocol
>
> On 17/12/13 22:29, George Anastassakis wrote:
>> That seems to solve the problem, thanks a lot!
>>
>> However, I would really appreciate any pointers to relevant documentation. So, except
>> http://opensimulator.org/wiki/InventoryService, is there anywhere else I can read more about the inventory and related
>> services and processes?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> On 17/12/2013 10:12 μμ, Timothy Rogers wrote:
>>> So sounds like an issue with HTTP inventory, you can tell your viewer
>>> to not use HTTP inventory from the preferences or from the advance
>>> menu.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 1:01 PM, George Anastassakis <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> Hi all
>>>>
>>>> (This is my first attempt to seek help on specific OpenSim-related issues so
>>>> apologies if this is not the right place or way to ask my question.)
>>>>
>>>> On a grid setup of one ROBUST server and numerous simulators I am unable to
>>>> load inventories for the past couple of days, while there was no similar
>>>> problem before. More specifically, I am able to load users' inventories in
>>>> Firestorm but no OpenSim library (remains in a "loading" state), while I
>>>> cannot load any inventory in other viewers (e.g., Singularity).
>>>> Interestingly, inventories seem to load correctly in the older Imprudence
>>>> viewer. There are a number of users in the grid so I cannot be sure at the
>>>> moment if the problem began in relation to some user's action.
>>>>
>>>> The grid runs on OpenSim 0.7.6 and MySQL 5.5 on a number of MS Windows
>>>> Server machines (which I believe are properly firewalled).
>>>>
>>>> Any ideas on why this may happen or how I should go about troubleshooting
>>>> it? Pointers to detailed information on how inventory information is
>>>> retrieved on grid setups and what services are involved will also be
>>>> immensely appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks all in advance
>>>>
>>>> George
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>
> --
> Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
> OSVW Consulting
> http://justincc.org
> http://twitter.com/justincc
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users

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Re: Cannot load inventory

George Anastassakis
In reply to this post by justincc
On 18/12/2013 3:12 πμ, Justin Clark-Casey wrote:

> Hi George.

Hello Justin and thanks very much for the detailed reply!

 >There isn't much on this, so I just wrote a scratch page
 > at [1] which specifically address the inventory protocols between
 > viewer and OpenSimulator.

Detailed information in a new wiki page! This is really cool! Again,
thanks, makes me feel I did the right thing asking here :)

> In your specific case, I'm not  sure why the OpenSimulator library
 > would fail in particular with HTTP and not UDP.  As with many things,
 > try clearing the viewer cache if you haven't already.

At this time I can confirm that (to my understanding) the simulator was
sending inventory data through UDP but not through HTTP. I tried this
with several different viewers after cleaning caches, etc.

I was able to fix this by restarting the simulator. However, I am afraid
I wasn't able to reproduce it, neither was I able to understand what
happened exactly because the user I suspect was involved couldn't
provide details on what they did or when.

In any case, my sincere thanks to all for the replies!

G

> [1]
 > http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OpenSimulatorToViewerInventoryProtocol
 >
 > On 17/12/13 22:29, George Anastassakis wrote:
 >> That seems to solve the problem, thanks a lot!
 >>
 >> However, I would really appreciate any pointers to relevant
 >> documentation. So, except
 >> http://opensimulator.org/wiki/InventoryService, is there anywhere
 >> else I can read more about the inventory and related services and
 >> processes?
 >>
 >> Thanks
 >>
 >> On 17/12/2013 10:12 μμ, Timothy Rogers wrote:
 >>> So sounds like an issue with HTTP inventory, you can tell your
 >>> viewer to not use HTTP inventory from the preferences or from the
 >>> advance menu.
 >>>
 >>> On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 1:01 PM, George Anastassakis
 >>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
 >>>> Hi all
 >>>>
 >>>> (This is my first attempt to seek help on specific
 >>>> OpenSim-related issues so apologies if this is not the right
 >>>> place or way to ask my question.)
 >>>>
 >>>> On a grid setup of one ROBUST server and numerous simulators I
 >>>> am unable to load inventories for the past couple of days,
 >>>> while there was no similar problem before. More specifically, I
 >>>> am able to load users' inventories in Firestorm but no OpenSim
 >>>> library (remains in a "loading" state), while I cannot load any
 >>>> inventory in other viewers (e.g., Singularity). Interestingly,
 >>>> inventories seem to load correctly in the older Imprudence
 >>>> viewer. There are a number of users in the grid so I cannot be
 >>>> sure at the moment if the problem began in relation to some
 >>>> user's action.
 >>>>
 >>>> The grid runs on OpenSim 0.7.6 and MySQL 5.5 on a number of MS
 >>>> Windows Server machines (which I believe are properly
 >>>> firewalled).
 >>>>
 >>>> Any ideas on why this may happen or how I should go about
 >>>> troubleshooting it? Pointers to detailed information on how
 >>>> inventory information is retrieved on grid setups and what
 >>>> services are involved will also be immensely appreciated.
 >>>>
 >>>> Thanks all in advance
 >>>>
 >>>> George
 >>>>
 >>>> _______________________________________________ Opensim-users
 >>>> mailing list [hidden email]
 >>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
 >>> _______________________________________________ Opensim-users
 >>> mailing list [hidden email]
 >>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
 >>>
 >>>
 >>
 >> _______________________________________________ Opensim-users
 >> mailing list [hidden email]
 >> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
 >
 >


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Asset records for deleted inventory prims and prim groups

George Anastassakis
In reply to this post by hack13
Hello all and happy new year!

Apologies if the answer to the question below is obvious, however I feel
I need some confirmation.

Is it ok to manually delete prim-type records in the assets table if all
associated prims and prim groups in the inventory have been deleted?
(Or, in what I hope is the same question in other words, is it safe to
manually delete prim-type records in the assets table if those records
are not referenced by the inventoryitems table?) If not, please explain why.

Thanks a lot in advance

G

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Re: Asset records for deleted inventory prims and prim groups

Jeff Kelley
At 1:51 AM +0200 1/1/14, George Anastassakis wrote:

>Is it ok to manually delete prim-type records in the assets table if
>all associated prims and prim groups in the inventory have been
>deleted? (Or, in what I hope is the same question in other words, is
>it safe to manually delete prim-type records in the assets table if
>those records are not referenced by the inventoryitems table?) If
>not, please explain why.

Prim-type records, I assume they are assets type 6 aka serialized
objects, may be referenced from inside other objects.

It is easy to check for in-world objects, quering the primitems
table. This is the case of "boxed items".

SELECT id,name FROM assets WHERE assetType=6 AND id IN (SELECT
assetID FROM primitems);

It is much more difficult for serialized (in inventory) objects since
you should parse each and every object XML to find them.

Additionally, they may be referenced from notecards (although i am not sure).


-- Jeff
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Re: Asset records for deleted inventory prims and prim groups

George Anastassakis
On 2/1/2014 2:45 μμ, Jeff Kelley wrote:

> Prim-type records, I assume  they are assets type 6 aka serialized
 > objects, may be referenced from inside other objects.

Yes, I am indeed talking about type 6 assets. By "referenced from inside
other objects" you mean that they may be linked to other prims,
referenced in LSL code or something else?

 > It is easy to check for in-world objects, quering the primitems
 > table. This is the case of "boxed items".

My bad. I should have explained that what I am trying to figure out how
to do is cleanup unused assets in a grid setup with simulators added and
maintained by third parties, so access to primitems cannot be taken for
granted. I believe this is an old issue now but I haven't been able to
locate a solution online or in docs.

Thanks

G

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Re: Asset records for deleted inventory prims and prim groups

Jeff Kelley
At 11:06 PM +0200 2/1/14, George Anastassakis wrote:

>>  Prim-type records, I assume  they are assets type 6 aka serialized
>>  objects, may be referenced from inside other objects.
>
>Yes, I am indeed talking about type 6 assets. By "referenced from
>inside other objects" you mean that they may be linked to other
>prims, referenced in LSL code or something else?

Contained in in-world prims.

Objects have inventories and they are stored (as references to
assets) into the simulator db, not the asset/inventory db.

Suppose an avatar puts an object into a box, then deletes the object
from his inventory. It is indeed gone from the inventory db
(inventoryitems), but there is still an entry in the simulator's db
(primitems).

Other example : You load an OAR with freebie boxes, then you delete
all assets not belonging to any avatar inventory : you zap every box
content.


-- Jeff
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Re: Asset records for deleted inventory prims and prim groups

Melanie
In reply to this post by George Anastassakis
There is no reasonable, safe or sane way to clean up assets. Hard
disks are cheap these days so perpetual expansion is the only option.

The only actually safe way is to make IAR of all users' inventories
and OARs of all regions, then delete the lot and reload.

Apart from that, buy hard disks. Lots of hard disks.

- Melanie

On 02/01/2014 22:06, George Anastassakis wrote:

> On 2/1/2014 2:45 μμ, Jeff Kelley wrote:
>
>> Prim-type records, I assume  they are assets type 6 aka serialized
>  > objects, may be referenced from inside other objects.
>
> Yes, I am indeed talking about type 6 assets. By "referenced from inside
> other objects" you mean that they may be linked to other prims,
> referenced in LSL code or something else?
>
>  > It is easy to check for in-world objects, quering the primitems
>  > table. This is the case of "boxed items".
>
> My bad. I should have explained that what I am trying to figure out how
> to do is cleanup unused assets in a grid setup with simulators added and
> maintained by third parties, so access to primitems cannot be taken for
> granted. I believe this is an old issue now but I haven't been able to
> locate a solution online or in docs.
>
> Thanks
>
> G
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
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Re: Asset records for deleted inventory prims and prim groups

George Anastassakis
In reply to this post by Jeff Kelley
On 3/1/2014 12:15 πμ, Jeff Kelley wrote:

 >> Yes, I am indeed talking about type 6 assets. By "referenced from
 >> inside other objects" you mean that they may be linked to other
 >> prims, referenced in LSL code or something else?
 >
 > Contained in in-world prims.
 >
> Objects have inventories and  they are stored (as references to
 > assets) into the simulator db, not the asset/inventory db.

I see... hadn't thought about that. Thanks for clarifying.

G

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Re: Asset records for deleted inventory prims and prim groups

George Anastassakis
In reply to this post by Melanie
On 3/1/2014 12:19 πμ, Melanie wrote:

> There is no reasonable, safe or  sane way to clean up assets. Hard
 > disks are cheap these days so perpetual expansion is the only
 > option.

Still, I was (and am) mostly troubled by the notion of constant
expansion that is due to really useless assets, and my original concern
was to understand if there indeed is such a thing as a really useless
asset. But I get your point.

> The only actually safe way is  to make IAR of all users' inventories
 > and OARs of all regions, then delete the lot and reload.

I was looking for something that can be automated.

So, I guess that what is implied here is that *regularly* backing-up the
Robust db by dumping sql is out of the question. What would you suggest
as an alternative?

G

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Re: Asset records for deleted inventory prims and prim groups

M.E. Verhagen
Unfortunately I do not know a way to determine useless or dead assets (assets wich are not on sim, neither in an inventory of a user, in the inventory of another prim or inside a notecard or gesture) either.

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Re: Asset records for deleted inventory prims and prim groups

Melanie
In reply to this post by George Anastassakis
Assets will soon reach a size that cannot be reasonably backed up
anymore. The only strategy that is any kind of future proof is
mirroring/duplication and fragmentation.

- Melanie

On 03/01/2014 00:08, George Anastassakis wrote:

> On 3/1/2014 12:19 πμ, Melanie wrote:
>
>> There is no reasonable, safe or  sane way to clean up assets. Hard
>  > disks are cheap these days so perpetual expansion is the only
>  > option.
>
> Still, I was (and am) mostly troubled by the notion of constant
> expansion that is due to really useless assets, and my original concern
> was to understand if there indeed is such a thing as a really useless
> asset. But I get your point.
>
>> The only actually safe way is  to make IAR of all users' inventories
>  > and OARs of all regions, then delete the lot and reload.
>
> I was looking for something that can be automated.
>
> So, I guess that what is implied here is that *regularly* backing-up the
> Robust db by dumping sql is out of the question. What would you suggest
> as an alternative?
>
> G
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: Asset records for deleted inventory prims and prim groups

Jeff Kelley
In reply to this post by George Anastassakis
At 1:08 AM +0200 3/1/14, George Anastassakis wrote:

>Still, I was (and am) mostly troubled by the notion of constant
>expansion that is due to really useless assets, and my original
>concern was to understand if there indeed is such a thing as a
>really useless asset. But I get your point.

Every grid running for a long time had faced the problem. Cleaning
the assets has been discussed here and appears to be a complex task,
involving parsing serialized objects, wearables, notecards and
scripts. Melanie outlined the process here:

https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/opensim-users/2013-April/012038.html

Although nobody proved that was theoretically impossible, nobody came
with a practical solution. Yet.


>So, I guess that what is implied here is that *regularly* backing-up
>the Robust db by dumping sql is out of the question. What would you
>suggest as an alternative?

Backing up by sqldump is not out of the question, you may keep a
rolling set of snapshots for last day, week, mont, quarter...
depending on you storage capacity.


-- Jeff


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Re: Asset records for deleted inventory prims and prim groups

Mic Bowman
In reply to this post by George Anastassakis
there are ways to clean up assets... but its a lot of work and definitely not perfect. in simian we have a last access time on every asset... that means we can (for example) save an oar file for a region (with an empty region cache) which will cause all the assets in the region to be touched. you can do a similar walk through inventory for all users (iar backups of all users inventories for example)... if you have control over all of your regions (so you can run the oar file backups) then you can "reasonably" safely delete assets that had not been touched recently. (reasonably in the sense that you are trusting oars and iars to actually expand all the assets completely.)

that being said... disks are cheaper.

one thing you can do in the short term for assets that are generated by deleting objects..

the UseTrashOnDelete configuration flag, when set to false, will prevent items deleted from the scene from ending up in your trash folder in inventory. that means no assets will be created for them. it works cross simulator, so be careful.

--mic



On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 3:08 PM, George Anastassakis <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 3/1/2014 12:19 πμ, Melanie wrote:

There is no reasonable, safe or  sane way to clean up assets. Hard
> disks are cheap these days so perpetual expansion is the only
> option.

Still, I was (and am) mostly troubled by the notion of constant expansion that is due to really useless assets, and my original concern was to understand if there indeed is such a thing as a really useless asset. But I get your point.


The only actually safe way is  to make IAR of all users' inventories
> and OARs of all regions, then delete the lot and reload.

I was looking for something that can be automated.

So, I guess that what is implied here is that *regularly* backing-up the Robust db by dumping sql is out of the question. What would you suggest as an alternative?


G

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Re: Asset records for deleted inventory prims and prim groups

Jeff Kelley
At 4:22 PM -0800 2/1/14, Mic Bowman wrote:

>the UseTrashOnDelete configuration flag, when set to false, will prevent
>items deleted from the scene from ending up in your trash folder in inventory.


WOW! I did not know this one.

Thanks a lot!


-- Jeff
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