General question about opensim vs secondlife server side performance

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General question about opensim vs secondlife server side performance

Dr Ramesh Ramloll
Hello there,
I ported some of my Second Life scripts to opensim running on my local
machine. The scripts do make use of a lot of listeners which is
unavoidable given what I am doing. The interaction with various
objects was significantly less snappy than when the same scripts are
running on Second Life. During the port, I was worried about compiling
issues and so on ... I had only few all related to the fact that
opensim check types more strictly than Second Life. Other than that,
things run but unfortunately the interactions are slower.
It is possible that my laptop does not have enough resources to run
the opensim server, a connection to Second Life (Second Life viewer),
and a connection to the local opensim region (Second Life viewer).
What is your experience running lots of scripts in opensim, did you
notice any drop in performance (by that I mean, do things run slower?)
I understand this is a very general question, but wanted to know a
little bit about your experience/thoughts in this matter.
Thanks
Ramesh
p.s. also, I was using a script that fades an object before it is
removed, in Second Life, the fading happens quicker too ... however
animations work as usual, so don't know if the timer event in the
fading script is slower in opensim ... 1 millisecond in opensim is
longer than 1 millisecond on Second Life ...., just rambling out loud.
--
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate
Research Associate Professor, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID
83209 Tel: 208-240-0040
Blog, LinkedIn, DeepSemaphore LLC, Google+ profile
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Re: General question about opensim vs secondlife server side performance

M.E. Verhagen
Lindenlab uses high end dedicated servers.
A laptop cannot compete with those ...

Op zaterdag 3 maart 2012 schreef Dr Ramesh Ramloll ([hidden email]) het volgende:
> Hello there,
> I ported some of my Second Life scripts to opensim running on my local
> machine. The scripts do make use of a lot of listeners which is
> unavoidable given what I am doing. The interaction with various
> objects was significantly less snappy than when the same scripts are
> running on Second Life. During the port, I was worried about compiling
> issues and so on ... I had only few all related to the fact that
> opensim check types more strictly than Second Life. Other than that,
> things run but unfortunately the interactions are slower.
> It is possible that my laptop does not have enough resources to run
> the opensim server, a connection to Second Life (Second Life viewer),
> and a connection to the local opensim region (Second Life viewer).
> What is your experience running lots of scripts in opensim, did you
> notice any drop in performance (by that I mean, do things run slower?)
> I understand this is a very general question, but wanted to know a
> little bit about your experience/thoughts in this matter.
> Thanks
> Ramesh
> p.s. also, I was using a script that fades an object before it is
> removed, in Second Life, the fading happens quicker too ... however
> animations work as usual, so don't know if the timer event in the
> fading script is slower in opensim ... 1 millisecond in opensim is
> longer than 1 millisecond on Second Life ...., just rambling out loud.
> --
> 'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
> Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate
> Research Associate Professor, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID
> 83209 Tel: 208-240-0040
> Blog, LinkedIn, DeepSemaphore LLC, Google+ profile
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>

--
Groningen en Hannover Opensims:   secondlife://meverhagen.nl:8002:Hannover ZW/ 

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Re: General question about opensim vs secondlife server side performance

Chris Kennedy-2
In reply to this post by Dr Ramesh Ramloll
The thing with timers on OpenSim versus LL servers is: OpenSim throttles
timers to 0.5 seconds at the fastest. This is to prevent overload on
your server and thus crashing it. The side effect is unfortunately that
if you import a script from SL that uses timers lower than this it will
appear to be slower on OpenSim than it is on SL.

On 3/3/2012 12:44 AM, Dr Ramesh Ramloll wrote:

> Hello there,
> I ported some of my Second Life scripts to opensim running on my local
> machine. The scripts do make use of a lot of listeners which is
> unavoidable given what I am doing. The interaction with various
> objects was significantly less snappy than when the same scripts are
> running on Second Life. During the port, I was worried about compiling
> issues and so on ... I had only few all related to the fact that
> opensim check types more strictly than Second Life. Other than that,
> things run but unfortunately the interactions are slower.
> It is possible that my laptop does not have enough resources to run
> the opensim server, a connection to Second Life (Second Life viewer),
> and a connection to the local opensim region (Second Life viewer).
> What is your experience running lots of scripts in opensim, did you
> notice any drop in performance (by that I mean, do things run slower?)
> I understand this is a very general question, but wanted to know a
> little bit about your experience/thoughts in this matter.
> Thanks
> Ramesh
> p.s. also, I was using a script that fades an object before it is
> removed, in Second Life, the fading happens quicker too ... however
> animations work as usual, so don't know if the timer event in the
> fading script is slower in opensim ... 1 millisecond in opensim is
> longer than 1 millisecond on Second Life ...., just rambling out loud.


--
OpenSim: 9 Region Standalone on 0.7.3 Dev
Physics: Open Dynamics Engine
OS: Windows 7 (x64)
CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 840 3.2 GHz
Memory: 11 GB DDR3
Database: MySQL 5.1.11

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Re: General question about opensim vs secondlife server side performance

Dr Ramesh Ramloll
@Chris, thanks for this note about the timer throttle.

On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 5:18 AM, Chris <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The thing with timers on OpenSim versus LL servers is: OpenSim throttles
> timers to 0.5 seconds at the fastest. This is to prevent overload on your
> server and thus crashing it. The side effect is unfortunately that if you
> import a script from SL that uses timers lower than this it will appear to
> be slower on OpenSim than it is on SL.
>
>
> On 3/3/2012 12:44 AM, Dr Ramesh Ramloll wrote:
>>
>> Hello there,
>> I ported some of my Second Life scripts to opensim running on my local
>> machine. The scripts do make use of a lot of listeners which is
>> unavoidable given what I am doing. The interaction with various
>> objects was significantly less snappy than when the same scripts are
>> running on Second Life. During the port, I was worried about compiling
>> issues and so on ... I had only few all related to the fact that
>> opensim check types more strictly than Second Life. Other than that,
>> things run but unfortunately the interactions are slower.
>> It is possible that my laptop does not have enough resources to run
>> the opensim server, a connection to Second Life (Second Life viewer),
>> and a connection to the local opensim region (Second Life viewer).
>> What is your experience running lots of scripts in opensim, did you
>> notice any drop in performance (by that I mean, do things run slower?)
>> I understand this is a very general question, but wanted to know a
>> little bit about your experience/thoughts in this matter.
>> Thanks
>> Ramesh
>> p.s. also, I was using a script that fades an object before it is
>> removed, in Second Life, the fading happens quicker too ... however
>> animations work as usual, so don't know if the timer event in the
>> fading script is slower in opensim ... 1 millisecond in opensim is
>> longer than 1 millisecond on Second Life ...., just rambling out loud.
>
>
>
> --
> OpenSim: 9 Region Standalone on 0.7.3 Dev
> Physics: Open Dynamics Engine
> OS: Windows 7 (x64)
> CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 840 3.2 GHz
> Memory: 11 GB DDR3
> Database: MySQL 5.1.11
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



--
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate
Research Associate Professor, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID
83209 Tel: 208-240-0040
Blog, LinkedIn, DeepSemaphore LLC, Google+ profile
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Re: General question about opensim vs secondlife server side performance

Trinity
The timer throttle can be adjusted in the opensim.ini but at the moment i cant remember the config options name and its undocumented. You will need to look at the source to find it i believe. You can set it to .01 but you better have the horse power to use it

On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 12:49 PM, Dr Ramesh Ramloll <[hidden email]> wrote:
@Chris, thanks for this note about the timer throttle.

On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 5:18 AM, Chris <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The thing with timers on OpenSim versus LL servers is: OpenSim throttles
> timers to 0.5 seconds at the fastest. This is to prevent overload on your
> server and thus crashing it. The side effect is unfortunately that if you
> import a script from SL that uses timers lower than this it will appear to
> be slower on OpenSim than it is on SL.
>
>
> On 3/3/2012 12:44 AM, Dr Ramesh Ramloll wrote:
>>
>> Hello there,
>> I ported some of my Second Life scripts to opensim running on my local
>> machine. The scripts do make use of a lot of listeners which is
>> unavoidable given what I am doing. The interaction with various
>> objects was significantly less snappy than when the same scripts are
>> running on Second Life. During the port, I was worried about compiling
>> issues and so on ... I had only few all related to the fact that
>> opensim check types more strictly than Second Life. Other than that,
>> things run but unfortunately the interactions are slower.
>> It is possible that my laptop does not have enough resources to run
>> the opensim server, a connection to Second Life (Second Life viewer),
>> and a connection to the local opensim region (Second Life viewer).
>> What is your experience running lots of scripts in opensim, did you
>> notice any drop in performance (by that I mean, do things run slower?)
>> I understand this is a very general question, but wanted to know a
>> little bit about your experience/thoughts in this matter.
>> Thanks
>> Ramesh
>> p.s. also, I was using a script that fades an object before it is
>> removed, in Second Life, the fading happens quicker too ... however
>> animations work as usual, so don't know if the timer event in the
>> fading script is slower in opensim ... 1 millisecond in opensim is
>> longer than 1 millisecond on Second Life ...., just rambling out loud.
>
>
>
> --
> OpenSim: 9 Region Standalone on 0.7.3 Dev
> Physics: Open Dynamics Engine
> OS: Windows 7 (x64)
> CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 840 3.2 GHz
> Memory: 11 GB DDR3
> Database: MySQL 5.1.11
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



--
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate
Research Associate Professor, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID
83209 Tel: <a href="tel:208-240-0040" value="+12082400040">208-240-0040
Blog, LinkedIn, DeepSemaphore LLC, Google+ profile
_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


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Re: General question about opensim vs secondlife server side performance

Gwyneth Llewelyn
In reply to this post by M.E. Verhagen
I haven't run "lots of scripts" on OpenSim, but I would certainly agree with Marcel: running two copies of the SL Viewer, one connected to SL, one to your laptop-hosted OpenSim, AND the standalone OpenSim on the same laptop is being too optimistic :) Just one of the viewers will take so much CPU (even though I believe the SL Viewer(s) don't use multiple CPUs...) that it will starve out the poor OpenSim application (and the database!) trying desperately to run with whatever CPU cycles are left.

As a comparison — and, again, I'm not running many scripts really — I have tried to run the same installation of OpenSim on a desktop iMac from early 2007 and a Pentium IV-based "server" (from around late 2008) which is only running Linux with OpenSim, MySQL, and nothing else besides. In both cases, all I have is two cores and 2 GBytes of RAM. But while the server has nothing else to worry about — no GUI — the iMac obviously has the whole of Apple's GUI stack running

The iMac barely handles a single region on OpenSim, even if I run the SL viewer from a different computer. The Linux box handles a 10-sim-minigrid without sweating. While everything on the iMac seems sluggish (but it certainly works!), there is little difference between regions hosted on the Linux box and Second Life, for a very low number of logged-in avatars. Perhaps the good thing about OpenSim is that hosting many regions with few avatars and few scripts will not make a huge difference at all: in theory, you could host hundreds of regions, assuming that you're just using one or two at the time :)

So I don't think that running so many things on a single laptop will give you reasonable performance on OpenSim, and the "competition" is unfair: the laptop is doing a ton of things already, and has few resources left for OpenSim. Specially if you're already running two instances of the SL Viewer on it...

On the other hand, I suppose that having a high-end, eight-core laptop with 8 GB of RAM and a dedicated graphics card might not create such an impact on OpenSim performance :)

        - Gwyn

On 2012/03/03, at 09:44, M.E. Verhagen wrote:

> Lindenlab uses high end dedicated servers.
> A laptop cannot compete with those ...

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"I'm not building a game. I'm building a new country."
  -- Philip "Linden" Rosedale, interview to Wired, 2004-05-08
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Re: General question about opensim vs secondlife server side performance

Dr Ramesh Ramloll
Hey there,
thanks for all these enlightening responses. I have one more related
question. When I was trying out kitely, a few minutes after logging
in, I could find that things were unusually very slow (am always
comparing with am used to that Linden Lab servers). Rezzing a simple
cube would take longer than usual. Then after some time, response on
kitely improved somewhat. Now am thinking, may be because resource
allocation on amazon cloud is somewhat dynamic, could it be that it
takes a while for all necessary resources to be allocated ... (I
haven't absolutely no clue about how all this happens in the
background, this is all speculation from someone who has a lot to
learn). Let me know your thoughts.
Thanks
Ramesh

On Sun, Mar 4, 2012 at 12:48 PM, Gwyneth Llewelyn
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> I haven't run "lots of scripts" on OpenSim, but I would certainly agree with Marcel: running two copies of the SL Viewer, one connected to SL, one to your laptop-hosted OpenSim, AND the standalone OpenSim on the same laptop is being too optimistic :) Just one of the viewers will take so much CPU (even though I believe the SL Viewer(s) don't use multiple CPUs...) that it will starve out the poor OpenSim application (and the database!) trying desperately to run with whatever CPU cycles are left.
>
> As a comparison — and, again, I'm not running many scripts really — I have tried to run the same installation of OpenSim on a desktop iMac from early 2007 and a Pentium IV-based "server" (from around late 2008) which is only running Linux with OpenSim, MySQL, and nothing else besides. In both cases, all I have is two cores and 2 GBytes of RAM. But while the server has nothing else to worry about — no GUI — the iMac obviously has the whole of Apple's GUI stack running
>
> The iMac barely handles a single region on OpenSim, even if I run the SL viewer from a different computer. The Linux box handles a 10-sim-minigrid without sweating. While everything on the iMac seems sluggish (but it certainly works!), there is little difference between regions hosted on the Linux box and Second Life, for a very low number of logged-in avatars. Perhaps the good thing about OpenSim is that hosting many regions with few avatars and few scripts will not make a huge difference at all: in theory, you could host hundreds of regions, assuming that you're just using one or two at the time :)
>
> So I don't think that running so many things on a single laptop will give you reasonable performance on OpenSim, and the "competition" is unfair: the laptop is doing a ton of things already, and has few resources left for OpenSim. Specially if you're already running two instances of the SL Viewer on it...
>
> On the other hand, I suppose that having a high-end, eight-core laptop with 8 GB of RAM and a dedicated graphics card might not create such an impact on OpenSim performance :)
>
>        - Gwyn
>
> On 2012/03/03, at 09:44, M.E. Verhagen wrote:
>
>> Lindenlab uses high end dedicated servers.
>> A laptop cannot compete with those ...
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



--
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate
Research Associate Professor, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID
83209 Tel: 208-240-0040
Blog, LinkedIn, DeepSemaphore LLC, Google+ profile
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Re: General question about opensim vs secondlife server side performance

Vanish-2
It might just be network lag. When you log in for the first time, the  
amount of data that needs to be sent to your viewer is substantial. (The  
whole environment, your appearance and your whole inventory need to be  
cached.) Once all that data got transferred, things are usually moving  
much smoother. I'd open up the statistics window (ctrl+shift+1) and keep  
an eye on the bandwidth.

V

> Hey there,
> thanks for all these enlightening responses. I have one more related
> question. When I was trying out kitely, a few minutes after logging
> in, I could find that things were unusually very slow (am always
> comparing with am used to that Linden Lab servers). Rezzing a simple
> cube would take longer than usual. Then after some time, response on
> kitely improved somewhat. Now am thinking, may be because resource
> allocation on amazon cloud is somewhat dynamic, could it be that it
> takes a while for all necessary resources to be allocated ... (I
> haven't absolutely no clue about how all this happens in the
> background, this is all speculation from someone who has a lot to
> learn). Let me know your thoughts.
> Thanks
> Ramesh
>
> On Sun, Mar 4, 2012 at 12:48 PM, Gwyneth Llewelyn
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I haven't run "lots of scripts" on OpenSim, but I would certainly agree  
>> with Marcel: running two copies of the SL Viewer, one connected to SL,  
>> one to your laptop-hosted OpenSim, AND the standalone OpenSim on the  
>> same laptop is being too optimistic :) Just one of the viewers will  
>> take so much CPU (even though I believe the SL Viewer(s) don't use  
>> multiple CPUs...) that it will starve out the poor OpenSim application  
>> (and the database!) trying desperately to run with whatever CPU cycles  
>> are left.
>>
>> As a comparison — and, again, I'm not running many scripts really — I  
>> have tried to run the same installation of OpenSim on a desktop iMac  
>> from early 2007 and a Pentium IV-based "server" (from around late 2008)  
>> which is only running Linux with OpenSim, MySQL, and nothing else  
>> besides. In both cases, all I have is two cores and 2 GBytes of RAM.  
>> But while the server has nothing else to worry about — no GUI — the  
>> iMac obviously has the whole of Apple's GUI stack running
>>
>> The iMac barely handles a single region on OpenSim, even if I run the  
>> SL viewer from a different computer. The Linux box handles a  
>> 10-sim-minigrid without sweating. While everything on the iMac seems  
>> sluggish (but it certainly works!), there is little difference between  
>> regions hosted on the Linux box and Second Life, for a very low number  
>> of logged-in avatars. Perhaps the good thing about OpenSim is that  
>> hosting many regions with few avatars and few scripts will not make a  
>> huge difference at all: in theory, you could host hundreds of regions,  
>> assuming that you're just using one or two at the time :)
>>
>> So I don't think that running so many things on a single laptop will  
>> give you reasonable performance on OpenSim, and the "competition" is  
>> unfair: the laptop is doing a ton of things already, and has few  
>> resources left for OpenSim. Specially if you're already running two  
>> instances of the SL Viewer on it...
>>
>> On the other hand, I suppose that having a high-end, eight-core laptop  
>> with 8 GB of RAM and a dedicated graphics card might not create such an  
>> impact on OpenSim performance :)
>>
>>        - Gwyn
>>
>> On 2012/03/03, at 09:44, M.E. Verhagen wrote:
>>
>>> Lindenlab uses high end dedicated servers.
>>> A laptop cannot compete with those ...
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>
>


--
The Twilight’s Green Illuminate Beam,
This Great ImBalance, that I’ve seen,
That Trees Got Icy Branches and,
The Good In Bad, That God I’ve Been.

http://tgib.co.uk/
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