Groups Implementation Discussion (WAS: This will NEVER go away)

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Groups Implementation Discussion (WAS: This will NEVER go away)

Michael Mitchell
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On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Justin Clark-Casey
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Charles Krinke wrote:
>> As I understand some of the "groups" stuff being worked on, there are
>> one or two projects in the forge concerned with groups and one or two
>> implementations being worked on.
>>
>> It seems to me that the trick is going to be getting to where we can
>> start testing even a small part of a "groups" implementation on various
>> grids.
>
> Yes.  I think it would be really good to bring some of this code into core, or make a clear nomination of where people
> can work on it.  Either way, we need a focus for this.  Even partial, non-working or incomplete code would be a good start.
>
>>
>> Also, as I understand it, one of the issues is that "groups" messages
>> are going to have to be "stored and forwarded" in a MySQL database to
>> handle the case where a group message needs to go to an avatar that is
>> not currently logged in.
>>
>> Charles
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>
> --
> justincc
> Justin Clark-Casey
> http://justincc.wordpress.com
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
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Re: Groups Implementation Discussion (WAS: This will NEVER go away)

Charles Krinke-3
Coitainly.

As I think about it, there are a few parts. One is OpenSim packet processing to enable the groups messages. Another is a connection to a MySQL (or MSSQL) database to hold the messages.

In thinking about "groups", it seems to me that we can start small. After all, we really only need to make sure the packet processing is worked out and we can store a few messages in a MySQL table.

Personally, I would be delighted to see, say 1) 10 groups, 2) Max number of messages of say 100 per group. 3) Max length of each message, say 256 characters.

That would get us off the ground and flesh out a complement to our current IM implementation in OpenSim, methinks.

Charles


From: Michael Mitchell <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Friday, April 3, 2009 11:04:11 AM
Subject: [Opensim-users] Groups Implementation Discussion (WAS: This will NEVER go away)

redirecting thread

On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Justin Clark-Casey
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Charles Krinke wrote:
>> As I understand some of the "groups" stuff being worked on, there are
>> one or two projects in the forge concerned with groups and one or two
>> implementations being worked on.
>>
>> It seems to me that the trick is going to be getting to where we can
>> start testing even a small part of a "groups" implementation on various
>> grids.
>
> Yes.  I think it would be really good to bring some of this code into core, or make a clear nomination of where people
> can work on it.  Either way, we need a focus for this.  Even partial, non-working or incomplete code would be a good start.
>
>>
>> Also, as I understand it, one of the issues is that "groups" messages
>> are going to have to be "stored and forwarded" in a MySQL database to
>> handle the case where a group message needs to go to an avatar that is
>> not currently logged in.
>>
>> Charles
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>
> --
> justincc
> Justin Clark-Casey
> http://justincc.wordpress.com
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users

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Re: Groups Implementation Discussion (WAS: This will NEVER go away)

Ruud Lathrop
I will be happely contribute with my knowledge of the MSSQL code and make it work with a MSSQL database to.

Maybe also a idea to look into offline IM's. I already tried something on this topic. It is in mantis under number 3232.

Ruud

On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 9:09 PM, Charles Krinke <[hidden email]> wrote:
Coitainly.

As I think about it, there are a few parts. One is OpenSim packet processing to enable the groups messages. Another is a connection to a MySQL (or MSSQL) database to hold the messages.

In thinking about "groups", it seems to me that we can start small. After all, we really only need to make sure the packet processing is worked out and we can store a few messages in a MySQL table.

Personally, I would be delighted to see, say 1) 10 groups, 2) Max number of messages of say 100 per group. 3) Max length of each message, say 256 characters.

That would get us off the ground and flesh out a complement to our current IM implementation in OpenSim, methinks.

Charles


From: Michael Mitchell <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Friday, April 3, 2009 11:04:11 AM
Subject: [Opensim-users] Groups Implementation Discussion (WAS: This will NEVER go away)

redirecting thread

On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Justin Clark-Casey
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Charles Krinke wrote:
>> As I understand some of the "groups" stuff being worked on, there are
>> one or two projects in the forge concerned with groups and one or two
>> implementations being worked on.
>>
>> It seems to me that the trick is going to be getting to where we can
>> start testing even a small part of a "groups" implementation on various
>> grids.
>
> Yes.  I think it would be really good to bring some of this code into core, or make a clear nomination of where people
> can work on it.  Either way, we need a focus for this.  Even partial, non-working or incomplete code would be a good start.
>
>>
>> Also, as I understand it, one of the issues is that "groups" messages
>> are going to have to be "stored and forwarded" in a MySQL database to
>> handle the case where a group message needs to go to an avatar that is
>> not currently logged in.
>>
>> Charles
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>
> --
> justincc
> Justin Clark-Casey
> http://justincc.wordpress.com
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users

_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



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Re: Groups Implementation Discussion

Chris Hart

I think I saw commits recently regarding offline messaging that required a little web code to implement... Melanie I think worked on it? If group messaging was handled the same way, as long as things are clear on what needs to be stored and where we’ll happily do the MSSQL side for both.

 

Personally, group IMs I don’t care about so much as group building rights – can / could / should the two be handled separately? Group chat can be handled outside of opensim without much fuss without too much fuss, but building rights and permissions are integral.

 

Chris

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ruud Lathrop
Sent: 03 April 2009 20:44
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Groups Implementation Discussion (WAS: Thiswill NEVER go away)

 

I will be happely contribute with my knowledge of the MSSQL code and make it work with a MSSQL database to.

Maybe also a idea to look into offline IM's. I already tried something on this topic. It is in mantis under number 3232.

Ruud

On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 9:09 PM, Charles Krinke <[hidden email]> wrote:

Coitainly.

As I think about it, there are a few parts. One is OpenSim packet processing to enable the groups messages. Another is a connection to a MySQL (or MSSQL) database to hold the messages.

In thinking about "groups", it seems to me that we can start small. After all, we really only need to make sure the packet processing is worked out and we can store a few messages in a MySQL table.

Personally, I would be delighted to see, say 1) 10 groups, 2) Max number of messages of say 100 per group. 3) Max length of each message, say 256 characters.

That would get us off the ground and flesh out a complement to our current IM implementation in OpenSim, methinks.

Charles

 


From: Michael Mitchell <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Friday, April 3, 2009 11:04:11 AM
Subject: [Opensim-users] Groups Implementation Discussion (WAS: This will NEVER go away)


redirecting thread

On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Justin Clark-Casey
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Charles Krinke wrote:
>> As I understand some of the "groups" stuff being worked on, there are
>> one or two projects in the forge concerned with groups and one or two
>> implementations being worked on.
>>
>> It seems to me that the trick is going to be getting to where we can
>> start testing even a small part of a "groups" implementation on various
>> grids.
>
> Yes.  I think it would be really good to bring some of this code into core, or make a clear nomination of where people
> can work on it.  Either way, we need a focus for this.  Even partial, non-working or incomplete code would be a good start.
>
>>
>> Also, as I understand it, one of the issues is that "groups" messages
>> are going to have to be "stored and forwarded" in a MySQL database to
>> handle the case where a group message needs to go to an avatar that is
>> not currently logged in.
>>
>> Charles
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>
> --
> justincc
> Justin Clark-Casey
> http://justincc.wordpress.com
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users

 

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.31/2028 - Release Date: 04/02/09 19:07:00


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Re: Groups Implementation Discussion (WAS: This will NEVER go away)

Tim Allen-4
In reply to this post by Ruud Lathrop
I'd be happy to contribute my MS SQL expertise as well. I've traditionally been MySQL / Oracle, but my new job is purely and MS SQL shop, so that should help as well. I recently wrote on article on the difference between stored procedures in MySQL versus MS SQL. They're actually significantly different, and although it pains me to say it, I think I prefer the MS implementation.

Regards,

-Tim

On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 3:44 PM, Ruud Lathrop <[hidden email]> wrote:
I will be happely contribute with my knowledge of the MSSQL code and make it work with a MSSQL database to.

Maybe also a idea to look into offline IM's. I already tried something on this topic. It is in mantis under number 3232.

Ruud


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Re: Groups Implementation Discussion

Charles Krinke-3
In reply to this post by Chris Hart
Yes, there are two parts to the 'groups' problem.

One part is the 'groups' permissions issues for land, objects, builds.

Another part is the 'group' messaging issue for communication between various groups, sort of like IM channels, if you will. One the second, I suppose we could go in the IRC or XMPP/Jabber direction, if we thought that might be more fruitful then building our own.

Personally, I am tending to focus on the second, but I admit that both are important.

Charles


From: Chris Hart <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Friday, April 3, 2009 12:05:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Groups Implementation Discussion

I think I saw commits recently regarding offline messaging that required a little web code to implement... Melanie I think worked on it? If group messaging was handled the same way, as long as things are clear on what needs to be stored and where we’ll happily do the MSSQL side for both.

 

Personally, group IMs I don’t care about so much as group building rights – can / could / should the two be handled separately? Group chat can be handled outside of opensim without much fuss without too much fuss, but building rights and permissions are integral.

 

Chris

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ruud Lathrop
Sent: 03 April 2009 20:44
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Groups Implementation Discussion (WAS: Thiswill NEVER go away)

 

I will be happely contribute with my knowledge of the MSSQL code and make it work with a MSSQL database to.

Maybe also a idea to look into offline IM's. I already tried something on this topic. It is in mantis under number 3232.

Ruud

On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 9:09 PM, Charles Krinke <[hidden email]> wrote:

Coitainly.

As I think about it, there are a few parts. One is OpenSim packet processing to enable the groups messages. Another is a connection to a MySQL (or MSSQL) database to hold the messages.

In thinking about "groups", it seems to me that we can start small. After all, we really only need to make sure the packet processing is worked out and we can store a few messages in a MySQL table.

Personally, I would be delighted to see, say 1) 10 groups, 2) Max number of messages of say 100 per group. 3) Max length of each message, say 256 characters.

That would get us off the ground and flesh out a complement to our current IM implementation in OpenSim, methinks.

Charles

 


From: Michael Mitchell <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Friday, April 3, 2009 11:04:11 AM
Subject: [Opensim-users] Groups Implementation Discussion (WAS: This will NEVER go away)


redirecting thread

On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Justin Clark-Casey
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Charles Krinke wrote:
>> As I understand some of the "groups" stuff being worked on, there are
>> one or two projects in the forge concerned with groups and one or two
>> implementations being worked on.
>>
>> It seems to me that the trick is going to be getting to where we can
>> start testing even a small part of a "groups" implementation on various
>> grids.
>
> Yes.  I think it would be really good to bring some of this code into core, or make a clear nomination of where people
> can work on it.  Either way, we need a focus for this.  Even partial, non-working or incomplete code would be a good start.
>
>>
>> Also, as I understand it, one of the issues is that "groups" messages
>> are going to have to be "stored and forwarded" in a MySQL database to
>> handle the case where a group message needs to go to an avatar that is
>> not currently logged in.
>>
>> Charles
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>
> --
> justincc
> Justin Clark-Casey
> http://justincc.wordpress.com
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users

 

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.31/2028 - Release Date: 04/02/09 19:07:00


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Re: Groups Implementation Discussion

Ralf Haifisch
In reply to this post by Chris Hart
Hey Charles,

+1 on 2 seperate questions.

Many other system do divide this anyway (security groups vs. distribution
group / maillists).

Maybe it would be a good idea to separate it as well, to be more flexible.

The high end, would be to have a "group in group" way, as in other concepts.
I could think that would even work with the viewer...  

However:

I think there are enough ways to communicate. If people are online they
could at least meet.

While offline, each grid registration needs an email - so anyone has email.

But we have a hughe demand on cooperation / security.

I would propose rights-relevant part of group to have a higher priority.


Cheers,
Ralf
------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 13:24:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Charles Krinke <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Groups Implementation Discussion
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Yes, there are two parts to the 'groups' problem.

One part is the 'groups' permissions issues for land, objects, builds.

Another part is the 'group' messaging issue for communication between
various groups, sort of like IM channels, if you will. One the second, I
suppose we could go in the IRC or XMPP/Jabber direction, if we thought that
might be more fruitful then building our own.

Personally, I am tending to focus on the second, but I admit that both are
important.

Charles



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Re: Groups Implementation Discussion

Ai Austin
In reply to this post by Chris Hart
Charles Krinke <[hidden email]> wrote:
>... I suppose we could go in the IRC or XMPP/Jabber direction,


I would really encourage a Jabber/XMPP approach for group (and indeed
individual) which open up all sorts of opportunities to link to
external messengers, buddy systems with geo-location (think of the
9opportuinities for in world visualisation of collaborative and
distributed teams), intelligent communications things too. Ai


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