Groups in Opensim

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Groups in Opensim

Ai Austin
At 19:04 03/04/2009, Charles Krinke <[hidden email]> wrote:
>Since OpenSim is not going away, perhaps this is a good time to
>discuss 'groups' implementations.
>
>It seems to me that getting to where we have some semblance of
>'groups' in OpenSim is to our advantage and will help the various
>grids progress. I wonder what other thoughts there are?


I altered the subject line to get us onto MUCH more positive things
guys and gals... this is a Great community, and we rely on many
personal time commitments from us all.  Don't spoil it.

I picked up on this post from Charles, and some 1-1 chat I had with
Justin yesterday on the same subject, because I think this is a
critical area that does need attention.  I was in a meeting this week
with with folks from IBM Hursley who might be able to encourage such
development amongst their own researchers keen on the area.

Lets find out what the state of play is, what exists and what is really needed.

For my own tuppence/two cents/two rubles (to try to be culturally
sensitive :-) )  we should at least make sure we can do SL style
group related plots, object change permissions and the like.  But we
should definitely not limit groups to the paltry 25 per avatar... I
have FAR more groups I am involved with and have to move stuff around
between avatars even in our early SL work being involved with a
lot  f educators and research groups on our areas at the Virtual
University of Edinburgh.

I wonder also if some sort of web interface to an externally defined
user information, avatars information, groups, roles set up that can
be externally managed as well as supported internally would make
sense to move this to a way to link up a social networking site with
DB based information with va range of virtual worlds including Opensim.

Ai


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Re: Groups in Opensim

Tristan-2
Ok. I agree, we really do need groups. I also like your idea for allowing outside access for other apps, though I think we should work on getting them usable first.

On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 12:38 PM, Ai Austin <[hidden email]> wrote:
At 19:04 03/04/2009, Charles Krinke <[hidden email]> wrote:
>Since OpenSim is not going away, perhaps this is a good time to
>discuss 'groups' implementations.
>
>It seems to me that getting to where we have some semblance of
>'groups' in OpenSim is to our advantage and will help the various
>grids progress. I wonder what other thoughts there are?


I altered the subject line to get us onto MUCH more positive things
guys and gals... this is a Great community, and we rely on many
personal time commitments from us all.  Don't spoil it.

I picked up on this post from Charles, and some 1-1 chat I had with
Justin yesterday on the same subject, because I think this is a
critical area that does need attention.  I was in a meeting this week
with with folks from IBM Hursley who might be able to encourage such
development amongst their own researchers keen on the area.

Lets find out what the state of play is, what exists and what is really needed.

For my own tuppence/two cents/two rubles (to try to be culturally
sensitive :-) )  we should at least make sure we can do SL style
group related plots, object change permissions and the like.  But we
should definitely not limit groups to the paltry 25 per avatar... I
have FAR more groups I am involved with and have to move stuff around
between avatars even in our early SL work being involved with a
lot  f educators and research groups on our areas at the Virtual
University of Edinburgh.

I wonder also if some sort of web interface to an externally defined
user information, avatars information, groups, roles set up that can
be externally managed as well as supported internally would make
sense to move this to a way to link up a social networking site with
DB based information with va range of virtual worlds including Opensim.

Ai


_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


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Re: Groups in Opensim

Frisby, Adam

Just a note,

 

We’ve been contracted by Michael Huntington (on this list) to implement a full groups implementation once we finish the secure currency one. We will probably push Groups into core once we are happy with its state on the forge. Planning for the groups implementation is scheduled tentatively to begin the week after next. (Would have been next week, but we ran into a glitch with currency during testing that needs some rethinking.)

 

Raise this issue again on the list in about two weeks and I will be happy to contribute our design plans, and maybe some very alpha code.

 

Adam

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Tristan
Sent: Friday, 3 April 2009 6:32 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Groups in Opensim

 

Ok. I agree, we really do need groups. I also like your idea for allowing outside access for other apps, though I think we should work on getting them usable first.

On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 12:38 PM, Ai Austin <[hidden email]> wrote:

At 19:04 03/04/2009, Charles Krinke <[hidden email]> wrote:
>Since OpenSim is not going away, perhaps this is a good time to
>discuss 'groups' implementations.
>
>It seems to me that getting to where we have some semblance of
>'groups' in OpenSim is to our advantage and will help the various
>grids progress. I wonder what other thoughts there are?


I altered the subject line to get us onto MUCH more positive things
guys and gals... this is a Great community, and we rely on many
personal time commitments from us all.  Don't spoil it.

I picked up on this post from Charles, and some 1-1 chat I had with
Justin yesterday on the same subject, because I think this is a
critical area that does need attention.  I was in a meeting this week
with with folks from IBM Hursley who might be able to encourage such
development amongst their own researchers keen on the area.

Lets find out what the state of play is, what exists and what is really needed.

For my own tuppence/two cents/two rubles (to try to be culturally
sensitive :-) )  we should at least make sure we can do SL style
group related plots, object change permissions and the like.  But we
should definitely not limit groups to the paltry 25 per avatar... I
have FAR more groups I am involved with and have to move stuff around
between avatars even in our early SL work being involved with a
lot  f educators and research groups on our areas at the Virtual
University of Edinburgh.

I wonder also if some sort of web interface to an externally defined
user information, avatars information, groups, roles set up that can
be externally managed as well as supported internally would make
sense to move this to a way to link up a social networking site with
DB based information with va range of virtual worlds including Opensim.

Ai


_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users

 


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Re: Groups in Opensim

John Sheridan
In reply to this post by Tristan-2
Now I'm not sure if this is related to groups or if its something else, but what about per user permissions?  Say for example I want to give someone else the right to modify my objects via the contact list.  Just a thought. :)

Thanks, ;)

 - John / Orion

Tristan wrote:
Ok. I agree, we really do need groups. I also like your idea for allowing outside access for other apps, though I think we should work on getting them usable first.

On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 12:38 PM, Ai Austin <[hidden email]> wrote:
At 19:04 03/04/2009, Charles Krinke <[hidden email]> wrote:
>Since OpenSim is not going away, perhaps this is a good time to
>discuss 'groups' implementations.
>
>It seems to me that getting to where we have some semblance of
>'groups' in OpenSim is to our advantage and will help the various
>grids progress. I wonder what other thoughts there are?


I altered the subject line to get us onto MUCH more positive things
guys and gals... this is a Great community, and we rely on many
personal time commitments from us all.  Don't spoil it.

I picked up on this post from Charles, and some 1-1 chat I had with
Justin yesterday on the same subject, because I think this is a
critical area that does need attention.  I was in a meeting this week
with with folks from IBM Hursley who might be able to encourage such
development amongst their own researchers keen on the area.

Lets find out what the state of play is, what exists and what is really needed.

For my own tuppence/two cents/two rubles (to try to be culturally
sensitive :-) )  we should at least make sure we can do SL style
group related plots, object change permissions and the like.  But we
should definitely not limit groups to the paltry 25 per avatar... I
have FAR more groups I am involved with and have to move stuff around
between avatars even in our early SL work being involved with a
lot  f educators and research groups on our areas at the Virtual
University of Edinburgh.

I wonder also if some sort of web interface to an externally defined
user information, avatars information, groups, roles set up that can
be externally managed as well as supported internally would make
sense to move this to a way to link up a social networking site with
DB based information with va range of virtual worlds including Opensim.

Ai


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Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


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Re: Groups in Opensim

matt raffel
I'm really excited about seeing groups finally :)  Maybe, if my schedule
slows down in the next couple wks, I will ask for permission to help
with it :)

Matt

John Sheridan wrote:

> Now I'm not sure if this is related to groups or if its something
> else, but what about per user permissions?  Say for example I want to
> give someone else the right to modify my objects via the contact
> list.  Just a thought. :)
>
> Thanks, ;)
>
>  - John / Orion
>
> Tristan wrote:
>> Ok. I agree, we really do need groups. I also like your idea for
>> allowing outside access for other apps, though I think we should work
>> on getting them usable first.
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 12:38 PM, Ai Austin
>> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>>     At 19:04 03/04/2009, Charles Krinke <[hidden email]
>>     <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>     >Since OpenSim is not going away, perhaps this is a good time to
>>     >discuss 'groups' implementations.
>>     >
>>     >It seems to me that getting to where we have some semblance of
>>     >'groups' in OpenSim is to our advantage and will help the various
>>     >grids progress. I wonder what other thoughts there are?
>>
>>
>>     I altered the subject line to get us onto MUCH more positive things
>>     guys and gals... this is a Great community, and we rely on many
>>     personal time commitments from us all.  Don't spoil it.
>>
>>     I picked up on this post from Charles, and some 1-1 chat I had with
>>     Justin yesterday on the same subject, because I think this is a
>>     critical area that does need attention.  I was in a meeting this week
>>     with with folks from IBM Hursley who might be able to encourage such
>>     development amongst their own researchers keen on the area.
>>
>>     Lets find out what the state of play is, what exists and what is
>>     really needed.
>>
>>     For my own tuppence/two cents/two rubles (to try to be culturally
>>     sensitive :-) )  we should at least make sure we can do SL style
>>     group related plots, object change permissions and the like.  But we
>>     should definitely not limit groups to the paltry 25 per avatar... I
>>     have FAR more groups I am involved with and have to move stuff around
>>     between avatars even in our early SL work being involved with a
>>     lot  f educators and research groups on our areas at the Virtual
>>     University of Edinburgh.
>>
>>     I wonder also if some sort of web interface to an externally defined
>>     user information, avatars information, groups, roles set up that can
>>     be externally managed as well as supported internally would make
>>     sense to move this to a way to link up a social networking site with
>>     DB based information with va range of virtual worlds including
>>     Opensim.
>>
>>     Ai
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     Opensim-users mailing list
>>     [hidden email]
>>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>     https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>  

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Re: Groups in Opensim

M.E. Verhagen
Yeah groups support is a pre.

But we should learn from the groups mistake secondlife has made.

Think it was a mistake they use the groups for object permissions AND also for community targets.

So I think there should be different group systems for different use.

One groups system for comminity building with im, notices, polls, roles and groups profiles. Without a max group limit.

And one group system for the object permission with an groups inventory in it. Withouth the community building things. These object group system should have a max limit.

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Re: Groups in Opensim

Diva Canto
I don't particularly care about the details of the group feature design, and, as with everything else, I don't think there's "one right thing". In fact, I think this is one of those features where variety and competition are the right approach.
My only concern is the architecture. All social networking stuff (IM, friends, groups and others) should be completely removed from region servers. They don't belong there, it's just wrong. Move all that stuff to interactions between the client and those services directly. We already have way too much of it in region servers, which should be moved out, let's not have any more of that. This is where I think we should break from OpenSim out-of-the-box being an SL clone to it being something else that's much better.

marcel verhagen wrote:
Yeah groups support is a pre.

But we should learn from the groups mistake secondlife has made.

Think it was a mistake they use the groups for object permissions AND also for community targets.

So I think there should be different group systems for different use.

One groups system for comminity building with im, notices, polls, roles and groups profiles. Without a max group limit.

And one group system for the object permission with an groups inventory in it. Withouth the community building things. These object group system should have a max limit.

_______________________________________________ Opensim-users mailing list [hidden email] https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


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Re: Groups in Opensim

Robert Klein
+1 Diva, I totally agree with getting these tools off the region server.

-Robert

Diva Canto wrote
I don't particularly care about the details of the group feature design,
and, as with everything else, I don't think there's "one right thing".
In fact, I think this is one of those features where variety and
competition are the right approach.
My only concern is the architecture. All social networking stuff (IM,
friends, groups and others) should be completely removed from region
servers. They don't belong there, it's just wrong. Move all that stuff
to interactions between the client and those services directly. We
already have way too much of it in region servers, which should be moved
out, let's not have any more of that. This is where I think we should
break from OpenSim out-of-the-box being an SL clone to it being
something else that's much better.

marcel verhagen wrote:
> Yeah groups support is a pre.
>
> But we should learn from the groups mistake secondlife has made.
>
> Think it was a mistake they use the groups for object permissions AND
> also for community targets.
>
> So I think there should be different group systems for different use.
>
> One groups system for comminity building with im, notices, polls,
> roles and groups profiles. Without a max group limit.
>
> And one group system for the object permission with an groups
> inventory in it. Withouth the community building things. These object
> group system should have a max limit.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>  


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Re: Groups in Opensim

Charles Krinke-3
I think the issue is going to be one of "evolution" and "compatibility". Many would say we want SL client compatibility for as long as possible. Given that, I suspect we will need to use the SL client means and perhaps evolve a second means as time goes on.

Charles


From: Robert Klein <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, April 5, 2009 2:03:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Groups in Opensim


+1 Diva, I totally agree with getting these tools off the region server.

-Robert


I don't particularly care about the details of the group feature design,
and, as with everything else, I don't think there's "one right thing".
In fact, I think this is one of those features where variety and
competition are the right approach.
My only concern is the architecture. All social networking stuff (IM,
friends, groups and others) should be completely removed from region
servers. They don't belong there, it's just wrong. Move all that stuff
to interactions between the client and those services directly. We
already have way too much of it in region servers, which should be moved
out, let's not have any more of that. This is where I think we should
break from OpenSim out-of-the-box being an SL clone to it being
something else that's much better.

marcel verhagen wrote:

> Yeah groups support is a pre.
>
> But we should learn from the groups mistake secondlife has made.
>
> Think it was a mistake they use the groups for object permissions AND
> also for community targets.
>
> So I think there should be different group systems for different use.
>
> One groups system for comminity building with im, notices, polls,
> roles and groups profiles. Without a max group limit.
>
> And one group system for the object permission with an groups
> inventory in it. Withouth the community building things. These object
> group system should have a max limit.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


_______________________________________________
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View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Groups-in-Opensim-tp2582536p2590078.html
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Re: Groups in Opensim

Jonathan-163
I highly suggest to look into libpurple to avoid reinventing any steps if group chat gets moved off the region server. It could be all client based.

The only thing that probably would hold that back is complete anonymity since libpurple would only be as anonymous as the services it connects and uses. I don't think complete anonymity will be needed among friends, and among friends is where libpurple can help accelerate implementation.

Don't take this as a suggestion to put aside what has been developed.

Charles Krinke wrote:
I think the issue is going to be one of "evolution" and "compatibility". Many would say we want SL client compatibility for as long as possible. Given that, I suspect we will need to use the SL client means and perhaps evolve a second means as time goes on.

Charles


From: Robert Klein [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, April 5, 2009 2:03:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Groups in Opensim


+1 Diva, I totally agree with getting these tools off the region server.

-Robert


I don't particularly care about the details of the group feature design,
and, as with everything else, I don't think there's "one right thing".
In fact, I think this is one of those features where variety and
competition are the right approach.
My only concern is the architecture. All social networking stuff (IM,
friends, groups and others) should be completely removed from region
servers. They don't belong there, it's just wrong. Move all that stuff
to interactions between the client and those services directly. We
already have way too much of it in region servers, which should be moved
out, let's not have any more of that. This is where I think we should
break from OpenSim out-of-the-box being an SL clone to it being
something else that's much better.

marcel verhagen wrote:
> Yeah groups support is a pre.
>
> But we should learn from the groups mistake secondlife has made.
>
> Think it was a mistake they use the groups for object permissions AND
> also for community targets.
>
> So I think there should be different group systems for different use.
>
> One groups system for comminity building with im, notices, polls,
> roles and groups profiles. Without a max group limit.
>
> And one group system for the object permission with an groups
> inventory in it. Withouth the community building things. These object
> group system should have a max limit.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



_______________________________________________
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--
View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Groups-in-Opensim-tp2582536p2590078.html
Sent from the opensim-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: Groups in Opensim

Teravus Ovares
Last I heard, libpurple's licence blows that choice out of the water.
   Unless, of course, they went lgpl?    But..  I doubt it.

Best Regards

Teravus

On 4/5/09, Dzonatas <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I highly suggest to look into libpurple to avoid reinventing any steps if
> group chat gets moved off the region server. It could be all client based.
>
> The only thing that probably would hold that back is complete anonymity
> since libpurple would only be as anonymous as the services it connects and
> uses. I don't think complete anonymity will be needed among friends, and
> among friends is where libpurple can help accelerate implementation.
>
> Don't take this as a suggestion to put aside what has been developed.
>
> Charles Krinke wrote:
>
> I think the issue is going to be one of "evolution" and "compatibility".
> Many would say we want SL client compatibility for as long as possible.
> Given that, I suspect we will need to use the SL client means and perhaps
> evolve a second means as time goes on.
>
> Charles
>
> ________________________________
> From: Robert Klein <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Sent: Sunday, April 5, 2009 2:03:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Groups in Opensim
>
>
> +1 Diva, I totally agree with getting these tools off the region server.
>
> -Robert
>
>
> I don't particularly care about the details of the group feature design,
> and, as with everything else, I don't think there's "one right thing".
> In fact, I think this is one of those features where variety and
> competition are the right approach.
> My only concern is the architecture. All social networking stuff (IM,
> friends, groups and others) should be completely removed from region
> servers. They don't belong there, it's just wrong. Move all that stuff
> to interactions between the client and those services directly. We
> already have way too much of it in region servers, which should be moved
> out, let's not have any more of that. This is where I think we should
> break from OpenSim out-of-the-box being an SL clone to it being
> something else that's much better.
>
> marcel verhagen wrote:
> > Yeah groups support is a pre.
> >
> > But we should learn from the groups mistake secondlife has made.
> >
> > Think it was a mistake they use the groups for object permissions AND
> > also for community targets.
> >
> > So I think there should be different group systems for different use.
> >
> > One groups system for comminity building with im, notices, polls,
> > roles and groups profiles. Without a max group limit.
> >
> > And one group system for the object permission with an groups
> > inventory in it. Withouth the community building things. These object
> > group system should have a max limit.
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Opensim-users mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://n2.nabble.com/Groups-in-Opensim-tp2582536p2590078.html
> Sent from the opensim-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
> ________________________________
>
_______________________________________________
Opensim-users
> mailing
> list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>
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Re: Groups in Opensim

Jonathan-163
I just found the older libpurple discussion (in opensim-dev) on this in google cache.

It looks like it came down to a question about GPL code repository maintained by OpenSim devs.


Teravus Ovares wrote:
Last I heard, libpurple's licence blows that choice out of the water.
   Unless, of course, they went lgpl?    But..  I doubt it.

Best Regards

Teravus

On 4/5/09, Dzonatas [hidden email] wrote:
  
I highly suggest to look into libpurple to avoid reinventing any steps if
group chat gets moved off the region server. It could be all client based.

The only thing that probably would hold that back is complete anonymity
since libpurple would only be as anonymous as the services it connects and
uses. I don't think complete anonymity will be needed among friends, and
among friends is where libpurple can help accelerate implementation.

Don't take this as a suggestion to put aside what has been developed.

Charles Krinke wrote:

I think the issue is going to be one of "evolution" and "compatibility".
Many would say we want SL client compatibility for as long as possible.
Given that, I suspect we will need to use the SL client means and perhaps
evolve a second means as time goes on.

Charles

________________________________
From: Robert Klein [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, April 5, 2009 2:03:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Groups in Opensim


+1 Diva, I totally agree with getting these tools off the region server.

-Robert


I don't particularly care about the details of the group feature design,
and, as with everything else, I don't think there's "one right thing".
In fact, I think this is one of those features where variety and
competition are the right approach.
My only concern is the architecture. All social networking stuff (IM,
friends, groups and others) should be completely removed from region
servers. They don't belong there, it's just wrong. Move all that stuff
to interactions between the client and those services directly. We
already have way too much of it in region servers, which should be moved
out, let's not have any more of that. This is where I think we should
break from OpenSim out-of-the-box being an SL clone to it being
something else that's much better.

marcel verhagen wrote:
    
Yeah groups support is a pre.

But we should learn from the groups mistake secondlife has made.

Think it was a mistake they use the groups for object permissions AND
also for community targets.

So I think there should be different group systems for different use.

One groups system for comminity building with im, notices, polls,
roles and groups profiles. Without a max group limit.

And one group system for the object permission with an groups
inventory in it. Withouth the community building things. These object
group system should have a max limit.

      
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