HG visitors will loose ownership on their HG obtained objects if a foreign grid is reinitialised from IARs/OARs?

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HG visitors will loose ownership on their HG obtained objects if a foreign grid is reinitialised from IARs/OARs?

aiaustin
At 10:35 07/01/2014, Jeff Kelley wrote:
>HG visitors will lose ownership on their objects (that happens to me
>every time a friend zaps his grid).

I noticed this (very worrying) comment in a discussion on tidying up
growing asset data bases...

It will surely not be uncommon for grids to be tidied up,
reinitialized, restored or to disappear entirely.

It ought not to be the case that any objects obtained with
appropriate permission over a HG connection or visit can disappear
from a grid they are currently on. If that is the way it is currently
works we will have serious problems with builds disappearing or
getting broken.  Do HG transferred objects rely on their continuing
availability on the continuing availability and access to the
origination grid?  I certainly hope not... I would expect a standa
lonw copy that can exist independently to be available on the
destination grid forever independently of the origination grid availability.

Can someone who knows the protocol comment and reassure us that all
is well in HG asset transfer land?  Maybe Diva could comment?  We can
then report bugs in what is meant to happen if items are disappearing
for some users when the origination grid is changed or lost.





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Re: HG visitors will loose ownership on their HG obtained objects if a foreign grid is reinitialised from IARs/OARs?

R.Gunther
Ai,

sofar i know that only can happen for opjects that are in your inventory.
Items that you hav erezzed are stored on the local sim database. (maby
grid side to ?)
But let someone else shine a light on this to.

On 2014-01-09 13:53, Ai Austin wrote:

> At 10:35 07/01/2014, Jeff Kelley wrote:
>> HG visitors will lose ownership on their objects (that happens to me
>> every time a friend zaps his grid).
>
> I noticed this (very worrying) comment in a discussion on tidying up
> growing asset data bases...
>
> It will surely not be uncommon for grids to be tidied up,
> reinitialized, restored or to disappear entirely.
>
> It ought not to be the case that any objects obtained with appropriate
> permission over a HG connection or visit can disappear from a grid
> they are currently on. If that is the way it is currently works we
> will have serious problems with builds disappearing or getting
> broken.  Do HG transferred objects rely on their continuing
> availability on the continuing availability and access to the
> origination grid?  I certainly hope not... I would expect a standa
> lonw copy that can exist independently to be available on the
> destination grid forever independently of the origination grid
> availability.
>
> Can someone who knows the protocol comment and reassure us that all is
> well in HG asset transfer land?  Maybe Diva could comment? We can then
> report bugs in what is meant to happen if items are disappearing for
> some users when the origination grid is changed or lost.
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>

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Re: HG visitors will loose ownership on their HG obtained objects if a foreign grid is reinitialised from IARs/OARs?

Jeff Kelley
In reply to this post by aiaustin
At 12:53 PM +0000 9/1/14, Ai Austin wrote:

>Do HG transferred objects rely on their continuing availability on
>the continuing availability and access to the origination grid?  I
>certainly hope not... I would expect a standa lonw copy that can
>exist independently to be available on the destination grid forever
>independently of the origination grid availability.


They don't. Once rezed or given in HG, objects and assets belong to
the destination grid db. They are copies that can exist independently.

I build in HG on a grid which has been backuped/restored many times,
even when the originating grid was down, and I never lost one of my
object. However, I loose ownership each time. Once restored, they
belong to the master avatar.

In a 6000-prim collaborative build, this is a nightmare. We have been
able to fool the permission manager by creating a local user with
same uuid as the HG user _before_ loading the OAR.



-- Jeff
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Re: HG visitors will loose ownership on their HG obtained objects if a foreign grid is reinitialised from IARs/OARs?

Serendipity Seraph-2
In reply to this post by aiaustin
The open metaverse seriously needs grid independent asset storage with replication, failover and scalability.  Another approach is to tie assets owned to the owner in some kind of per user cloud or local machine only backed storage.  Or at least have such as backups.    It is an interesting set of challenges - and opportunities.


On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 4:53 AM, Ai Austin <[hidden email]> wrote:
At 10:35 07/01/2014, Jeff Kelley wrote:
HG visitors will lose ownership on their objects (that happens to me every time a friend zaps his grid).

I noticed this (very worrying) comment in a discussion on tidying up growing asset data bases...

It will surely not be uncommon for grids to be tidied up, reinitialized, restored or to disappear entirely.

It ought not to be the case that any objects obtained with appropriate permission over a HG connection or visit can disappear from a grid they are currently on. If that is the way it is currently works we will have serious problems with builds disappearing or getting broken.  Do HG transferred objects rely on their continuing availability on the continuing availability and access to the origination grid?  I certainly hope not... I would expect a standa lonw copy that can exist independently to be available on the destination grid forever independently of the origination grid availability.

Can someone who knows the protocol comment and reassure us that all is well in HG asset transfer land?  Maybe Diva could comment?  We can then report bugs in what is meant to happen if items are disappearing for some users when the origination grid is changed or lost.





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Re: HG visitors will loose ownership on their HG obtained objects if a foreign grid is reinitialised from IARs/OARs?

Mike Chase
On 01/09/2014 03:19 PM, Serendipity Seraph wrote:
The open metaverse seriously needs grid independent asset storage with replication, failover and scalability.  Another approach is to tie assets owned to the owner in some kind of per user cloud or local machine only backed storage.  Or at least have such as backups.    It is an interesting set of challenges - and opportunities.

Also identity.  Some of that was discussed in a standards effort a while ago but it got derailed for lots of reason.  But yes I'd agree there is room for providing parts of the overall infrastructure with trust relationships defined between services.  Any hypergrid isn't that as its implemented today.

Mike

On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 4:53 AM, Ai Austin <[hidden email]> wrote:
At 10:35 07/01/2014, Jeff Kelley wrote:
HG visitors will lose ownership on their objects (that happens to me every time a friend zaps his grid).

I noticed this (very worrying) comment in a discussion on tidying up growing asset data bases...

It will surely not be uncommon for grids to be tidied up, reinitialized, restored or to disappear entirely.

It ought not to be the case that any objects obtained with appropriate permission over a HG connection or visit can disappear from a grid they are currently on. If that is the way it is currently works we will have serious problems with builds disappearing or getting broken.  Do HG transferred objects rely on their continuing availability on the continuing availability and access to the origination grid?  I certainly hope not... I would expect a standa lonw copy that can exist independently to be available on the destination grid forever independently of the origination grid availability.

Can someone who knows the protocol comment and reassure us that all is well in HG asset transfer land?  Maybe Diva could comment?  We can then report bugs in what is meant to happen if items are disappearing for some users when the origination grid is changed or lost.





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