How can we bridge the gap between opensim developers and end users?

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How can we bridge the gap between opensim developers and end users?

Dr Ramesh Ramloll
Hello,
For quite some time, I have been thinking about this. How can we make it
easier for end users to 'profit' from the time they invest in visiting a
virtual world. Users are already getting good returns it appears,
certainly, things like social/collective music appreciation remains a
curiosity for the old and new (see the latest media frenzy about Fortnite
concerts).

It appears to me that we need to grow an application layer on top of the
opensim layer either to strengthen our current niches, or create new ones.
So we are trying and hope others can develop their own layer too (our
approach is a bit timid reflecting our skillbase, but I always believe
something is always better than nothing. Arguably our approach is close to
'visual assembly' as opposed to visual programming ... per se, so we
assemble Apps from a minimal set of objects manually). I invite the group
to share thoughts about how to grow the application (mass facing) layer
further.

I am including here a clip which shows our attempt, we have an application
layer that supports what we call 'Apps', little mini applications.

Here's an example App. that is built using our 'layer'. Our Apps are
created by assembling objects, it's a bit like 'visual application building
in the old days'... but do check this out when you have some time.
https://youtu.be/p-XXiKcaCpc

How would YOU broaden the application layer that opensim needs?  Are there
other approaches?
R
--
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
*Rameshsharma Ramloll* PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Landisville, PA;
Affiliate *Research Associate Professor*, Idaho State University,
Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: 208-240-0040
LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/rameshramloll>
_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
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Re: How can we bridge the gap between opensim developers and end users?

Nick Zwart
Hi Ramesh

Your application really looks great. It is even overwhelming to see what
can be done with it.
At the moment I would not have any idea on how to broaden this. Myabe
because I am very impressed by the things that already can be done.
Specially the placing of object and rotating them is impressive.
Also the boards you can use for displaying web content are fantastic.

Is this app available for others also?

Regards,

Nick Zwart

= = = = = = = = = = = =
3DLES
Fluitekruidlaan 25
3925 SB Scherpenzeel Gld (NL)
tel. +31 (0)33 4480070
mobiel +31 (0)6 10577016
email: [hidden email]
skype: nick.j.zwart
site: www.3dles.com
= = = = = = = = = = = =


On Fri, 1 Mar 2019 at 16:59, Dr Ramesh Ramloll <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello,
> For quite some time, I have been thinking about this. How can we make it
> easier for end users to 'profit' from the time they invest in visiting a
> virtual world. Users are already getting good returns it appears,
> certainly, things like social/collective music appreciation remains a
> curiosity for the old and new (see the latest media frenzy about Fortnite
> concerts).
>
> It appears to me that we need to grow an application layer on top of the
> opensim layer either to strengthen our current niches, or create new ones.
> So we are trying and hope others can develop their own layer too (our
> approach is a bit timid reflecting our skillbase, but I always believe
> something is always better than nothing. Arguably our approach is close to
> 'visual assembly' as opposed to visual programming ... per se, so we
> assemble Apps from a minimal set of objects manually). I invite the group
> to share thoughts about how to grow the application (mass facing) layer
> further.
>
> I am including here a clip which shows our attempt, we have an application
> layer that supports what we call 'Apps', little mini applications.
>
> Here's an example App. that is built using our 'layer'. Our Apps are
> created by assembling objects, it's a bit like 'visual application building
> in the old days'... but do check this out when you have some time.
> https://youtu.be/p-XXiKcaCpc
>
> How would YOU broaden the application layer that opensim needs?  Are there
> other approaches?
> R
> --
> 'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
> *Rameshsharma Ramloll* PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Landisville, PA;
> Affiliate *Research Associate Professor*, Idaho State University,
> Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: 208-240-0040
> LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/rameshramloll>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
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Re: How can we bridge the gap between opensim developers and end users?

Dr Ramesh Ramloll
Is this app available for others also?

Yes Nick,  get in touch with me.  We need folks like you to help us advance
the next stage of our progress.
And thanks for the kind words. They are an important return on investment
for us, keeps us going.

On Sat, Mar 2, 2019 at 4:34 AM Nick Zwart - 3DLES <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Ramesh
>
> Your application really looks great. It is even overwhelming to see what
> can be done with it.
> At the moment I would not have any idea on how to broaden this. Myabe
> because I am very impressed by the things that already can be done.
> Specially the placing of object and rotating them is impressive.
> Also the boards you can use for displaying web content are fantastic.
>
> Is this app available for others also?
>
> Regards,
>
> Nick Zwart
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = =
> 3DLES
> Fluitekruidlaan 25
> 3925 SB Scherpenzeel Gld (NL)
> tel. +31 (0)33 4480070
> mobiel +31 (0)6 10577016
> email: [hidden email]
> skype: nick.j.zwart
> site: www.3dles.com
> = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
> On Fri, 1 Mar 2019 at 16:59, Dr Ramesh Ramloll <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> > For quite some time, I have been thinking about this. How can we make it
> > easier for end users to 'profit' from the time they invest in visiting a
> > virtual world. Users are already getting good returns it appears,
> > certainly, things like social/collective music appreciation remains a
> > curiosity for the old and new (see the latest media frenzy about Fortnite
> > concerts).
> >
> > It appears to me that we need to grow an application layer on top of the
> > opensim layer either to strengthen our current niches, or create new
> ones.
> > So we are trying and hope others can develop their own layer too (our
> > approach is a bit timid reflecting our skillbase, but I always believe
> > something is always better than nothing. Arguably our approach is close
> to
> > 'visual assembly' as opposed to visual programming ... per se, so we
> > assemble Apps from a minimal set of objects manually). I invite the group
> > to share thoughts about how to grow the application (mass facing) layer
> > further.
> >
> > I am including here a clip which shows our attempt, we have an
> application
> > layer that supports what we call 'Apps', little mini applications.
> >
> > Here's an example App. that is built using our 'layer'. Our Apps are
> > created by assembling objects, it's a bit like 'visual application
> building
> > in the old days'... but do check this out when you have some time.
> > https://youtu.be/p-XXiKcaCpc
> >
> > How would YOU broaden the application layer that opensim needs?  Are
> there
> > other approaches?
> > R
> > --
> > 'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
> > *Rameshsharma Ramloll* PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Landisville, PA;
> > Affiliate *Research Associate Professor*, Idaho State University,
> > Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: 208-240-0040
> > LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/rameshramloll>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Opensim-users mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>


--
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
*Rameshsharma Ramloll* PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Landisville, PA;
Affiliate *Research Associate Professor*, Idaho State University,
Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: 208-240-0040
LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/rameshramloll>
_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
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Re: How can we bridge the gap between opensim developers and end users?

Serendipity Seraph-2
In reply to this post by Dr Ramesh Ramloll
Is this OpenSim or OpenSimulator?  It is a possible point of confusion.

On Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 8:59 AM Dr Ramesh Ramloll <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hello,
> For quite some time, I have been thinking about this. How can we make it
> easier for end users to 'profit' from the time they invest in visiting a
> virtual world. Users are already getting good returns it appears,
> certainly, things like social/collective music appreciation remains a
> curiosity for the old and new (see the latest media frenzy about Fortnite
> concerts).
>
> It appears to me that we need to grow an application layer on top of the
> opensim layer either to strengthen our current niches, or create new ones.
> So we are trying and hope others can develop their own layer too (our
> approach is a bit timid reflecting our skillbase, but I always believe
> something is always better than nothing. Arguably our approach is close to
> 'visual assembly' as opposed to visual programming ... per se, so we
> assemble Apps from a minimal set of objects manually). I invite the group
> to share thoughts about how to grow the application (mass facing) layer
> further.
>
> I am including here a clip which shows our attempt, we have an application
> layer that supports what we call 'Apps', little mini applications.
>
> Here's an example App. that is built using our 'layer'. Our Apps are
> created by assembling objects, it's a bit like 'visual application building
> in the old days'... but do check this out when you have some time.
> https://youtu.be/p-XXiKcaCpc
>
> How would YOU broaden the application layer that opensim needs?  Are there
> other approaches?
> R
> --
> 'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
> *Rameshsharma Ramloll* PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Landisville, PA;
> Affiliate *Research Associate Professor*, Idaho State University,
> Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: 208-240-0040
> LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/rameshramloll>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
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Re: How can we bridge the gap between opensim developers and end users?

Dr Ramesh Ramloll
@Serendipity please explain a little more, am not sure I understand the
question. Thanks.

On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 1:38 PM Serendipity Seraph <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Is this OpenSim or OpenSimulator?  It is a possible point of confusion.
>
> On Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 8:59 AM Dr Ramesh Ramloll <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> > For quite some time, I have been thinking about this. How can we make it
> > easier for end users to 'profit' from the time they invest in visiting a
> > virtual world. Users are already getting good returns it appears,
> > certainly, things like social/collective music appreciation remains a
> > curiosity for the old and new (see the latest media frenzy about Fortnite
> > concerts).
> >
> > It appears to me that we need to grow an application layer on top of the
> > opensim layer either to strengthen our current niches, or create new
> ones.
> > So we are trying and hope others can develop their own layer too (our
> > approach is a bit timid reflecting our skillbase, but I always believe
> > something is always better than nothing. Arguably our approach is close
> to
> > 'visual assembly' as opposed to visual programming ... per se, so we
> > assemble Apps from a minimal set of objects manually). I invite the group
> > to share thoughts about how to grow the application (mass facing) layer
> > further.
> >
> > I am including here a clip which shows our attempt, we have an
> application
> > layer that supports what we call 'Apps', little mini applications.
> >
> > Here's an example App. that is built using our 'layer'. Our Apps are
> > created by assembling objects, it's a bit like 'visual application
> building
> > in the old days'... but do check this out when you have some time.
> > https://youtu.be/p-XXiKcaCpc
> >
> > How would YOU broaden the application layer that opensim needs?  Are
> there
> > other approaches?
> > R
> > --
> > 'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
> > *Rameshsharma Ramloll* PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Landisville, PA;
> > Affiliate *Research Associate Professor*, Idaho State University,
> > Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: 208-240-0040
> > LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/rameshramloll>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Opensim-users mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>


--
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
*Rameshsharma Ramloll* PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Landisville, PA;
Affiliate *Research Associate Professor*, Idaho State University,
Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: 208-240-0040
LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/rameshramloll>
_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
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Re: How can we bridge the gap between opensim developers and end users?

Serendipity Seraph-2
I notice that there is another OpenSim that is different from
OpenSimulator.  I was curious whether the toolchain shown was in or for
opensimulator.  But reading up it seems that it is a scene creations and
interaction tool that is very cool.   So as they say in SNL "never mind".

I will be looking into this tool more deeply.   Can the layout rezzing of
objects on the board and in the region be variably script contolled?  Is
there an API or data driven facility that can be in world or externally
modified?  Since the board is a highly scripted object it seems doable if
not already present.

On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 11:49 AM Dr Ramesh Ramloll <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> @Serendipity please explain a little more, am not sure I understand the
> question. Thanks.
>
> On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 1:38 PM Serendipity Seraph <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Is this OpenSim or OpenSimulator?  It is a possible point of confusion.
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 8:59 AM Dr Ramesh Ramloll <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hello,
> > > For quite some time, I have been thinking about this. How can we make
> it
> > > easier for end users to 'profit' from the time they invest in visiting
> a
> > > virtual world. Users are already getting good returns it appears,
> > > certainly, things like social/collective music appreciation remains a
> > > curiosity for the old and new (see the latest media frenzy about
> Fortnite
> > > concerts).
> > >
> > > It appears to me that we need to grow an application layer on top of
> the
> > > opensim layer either to strengthen our current niches, or create new
> > ones.
> > > So we are trying and hope others can develop their own layer too (our
> > > approach is a bit timid reflecting our skillbase, but I always believe
> > > something is always better than nothing. Arguably our approach is close
> > to
> > > 'visual assembly' as opposed to visual programming ... per se, so we
> > > assemble Apps from a minimal set of objects manually). I invite the
> group
> > > to share thoughts about how to grow the application (mass facing) layer
> > > further.
> > >
> > > I am including here a clip which shows our attempt, we have an
> > application
> > > layer that supports what we call 'Apps', little mini applications.
> > >
> > > Here's an example App. that is built using our 'layer'. Our Apps are
> > > created by assembling objects, it's a bit like 'visual application
> > building
> > > in the old days'... but do check this out when you have some time.
> > > https://youtu.be/p-XXiKcaCpc
> > >
> > > How would YOU broaden the application layer that opensim needs?  Are
> > there
> > > other approaches?
> > > R
> > > --
> > > 'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
> > > *Rameshsharma Ramloll* PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Landisville, PA;
> > > Affiliate *Research Associate Professor*, Idaho State University,
> > > Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: 208-240-0040
> > > LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/rameshramloll>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Opensim-users mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Opensim-users mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
> >
>
>
> --
> 'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
> *Rameshsharma Ramloll* PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Landisville, PA;
> Affiliate *Research Associate Professor*, Idaho State University,
> Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: 208-240-0040
> LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/rameshramloll>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
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Re: How can we bridge the gap between opensim developers and end users?

aiaustin
In reply to this post by Dr Ramesh Ramloll

>From: Serendipity Seraph <[hidden email]>
>To: opensim-users <[hidden email]>
>
>I notice that there is another OpenSim that is different from
>OpenSimulator.  I was curious whether the toolchain shown was in or
>for opensimulator.  But reading up it seems that it is a scene
>creations and interaction tool that is very cool.


Yes, we are officially OpenSimulator at http://opensimulator.org 
though informally almost everyone calls it OpenSim.

Another OpenSim software package was created at roughly the same time
as OpenSimulator...

https://opensim.stanford.edu/

Disambiguation and yet another OpenSim are shown at...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenSim


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Re: How can we bridge the gap between opensim developers and end users?

Dr Ramesh Ramloll
In reply to this post by Serendipity Seraph-2
Thanks Serendipity for the reply.
Yes when googling opensim I often fall on the biomechanics software which
has some traction and even conferences around it.
Sorry for the confusion.

On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 2:49 AM Serendipity Seraph <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I notice that there is another OpenSim that is different from
> OpenSimulator.  I was curious whether the toolchain shown was in or for
> opensimulator.  But reading up it seems that it is a scene creations and
> interaction tool that is very cool.   So as they say in SNL "never mind".
>
> I will be looking into this tool more deeply.   Can the layout rezzing of
> objects on the board and in the region be variably script contolled?


Yes, in fact we tried procedural content generation some time back for load
testing the RezMela system.
We rezzed a large array of 'text objects' ... think of post-it notes with
text in .... trying to find the optimal number of objects that a particular
application built on this opensim LSL application can hold, on a particular
grid, in this case kitely.
At this time, we are more focusing on 'direct manipulation' in the most
user friendly way possible with snap to grid, snap to arbitrary objects
implemented for e.g. and speed up scene creation at various scales relative
to the avatar (small ... e.g. molecules/post it notes/ web notes/ on a
table, medium ... furniture and large ... region wide content generation
(possibly across grids in the future).
We call the board functionality, map functionality now... and this is
primarily of use when deploying and controlling scenes region wide.

Is
> there an API or data driven facility that can be in world or externally
> modified?  Since the board is a highly scripted object it seems doable if
> not already present.
>
> Now that we have seen how things can work in world (seen the benefits and
challenges etc...), the next few milestones in the trajectory should
include what you suggested. I agree it would be awesome to have that kind
of API.

I think that opensim has a lot going for it and a lot is possible. So I am
trying my best to share and learn from the community (which appears too
quiet for comfort), while functioning in a space that I am comfortable in
(because of my skill limitations, I cannot do otherwise). While I may not
be able to offer much on the underlying opensim infrastructure, I can share
at the level of 'application' development, which I think can influence the
development and fine tuning of underlying layers. And I believe my focus on
'economy of motion' and 'enabling users to do more with less tethering and
wearing of devices', and not isolating users in VR ... (e.g. seeings people
wearing VR headsets next to each other in a real world museum, breaks my
heart... and explains why VR will never go mainstream)... those are the
things that drive my application design approach in this new round of
crawling up the 'slope of enlightenment'.



> On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 11:49 AM Dr Ramesh Ramloll <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > @Serendipity please explain a little more, am not sure I understand the
> > question. Thanks.
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 1:38 PM Serendipity Seraph <
> [hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Is this OpenSim or OpenSimulator?  It is a possible point of confusion.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Mar 1, 2019 at 8:59 AM Dr Ramesh Ramloll <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello,
> > > > For quite some time, I have been thinking about this. How can we make
> > it
> > > > easier for end users to 'profit' from the time they invest in
> visiting
> > a
> > > > virtual world. Users are already getting good returns it appears,
> > > > certainly, things like social/collective music appreciation remains a
> > > > curiosity for the old and new (see the latest media frenzy about
> > Fortnite
> > > > concerts).
> > > >
> > > > It appears to me that we need to grow an application layer on top of
> > the
> > > > opensim layer either to strengthen our current niches, or create new
> > > ones.
> > > > So we are trying and hope others can develop their own layer too (our
> > > > approach is a bit timid reflecting our skillbase, but I always
> believe
> > > > something is always better than nothing. Arguably our approach is
> close
> > > to
> > > > 'visual assembly' as opposed to visual programming ... per se, so we
> > > > assemble Apps from a minimal set of objects manually). I invite the
> > group
> > > > to share thoughts about how to grow the application (mass facing)
> layer
> > > > further.
> > > >
> > > > I am including here a clip which shows our attempt, we have an
> > > application
> > > > layer that supports what we call 'Apps', little mini applications.
> > > >
> > > > Here's an example App. that is built using our 'layer'. Our Apps are
> > > > created by assembling objects, it's a bit like 'visual application
> > > building
> > > > in the old days'... but do check this out when you have some time.
> > > > https://youtu.be/p-XXiKcaCpc
> > > >
> > > > How would YOU broaden the application layer that opensim needs?  Are
> > > there
> > > > other approaches?
> > > > R
> > > > --
> > > > 'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
> > > > *Rameshsharma Ramloll* PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Landisville,
> PA;
> > > > Affiliate *Research Associate Professor*, Idaho State University,
> > > > Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: 208-240-0040
> > > > LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/rameshramloll>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Opensim-users mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Opensim-users mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > 'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
> > *Rameshsharma Ramloll* PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Landisville, PA;
> > Affiliate *Research Associate Professor*, Idaho State University,
> > Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: 208-240-0040
> > LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/rameshramloll>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Opensim-users mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>


--
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
*Rameshsharma Ramloll* PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Landisville, PA;
Affiliate *Research Associate Professor*, Idaho State University,
Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: 208-240-0040
LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/rameshramloll>
_______________________________________________
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