MySQL on seperate server?

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Re: MySQL on seperate server?

Karen_Palen
Bob,

I look forward to helping any way I can!

I suspect that we have to address the standalone or "small grid" problem first since it is really a subset of the worldwide grid problem.

BTW I still need to get the Caledon Railway stuff working on PMGrid BTW - a couple of the scripts did not copy over for some reason.

Karen

--- On Fri, 2/19/10, Bob Wellman <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Bob Wellman <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] MySQL on seperate server?
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Friday, February 19, 2010, 3:34 AM
>
>
>
>
>  
> Just to let you know:
>
>  
>
> I am nearing completion of the first rough draft of the
> documentation on our PMgrid Administration tools, which
> includes among other things an analysis of asset
> usages (for small self contained grids only) and the
> ability to archive redundant assets. To use Karen's
> analogy we have "unscrambled the omelette"...LOL.
> BTW: These tools also deal with duplicate assets.
>
>  
>
> As Karen points out we have done all this by working
> directly at the database (SQL) level using a .php web based
> interface. We hope in future to make this available to other
> small grid operators so they can attach it to their own to
> web/opensim interface sites to manage their grid(s). That
> day is I am afraid a way off yet especially as the database
> is about to change dramatically in 0.7 and we will need a
> rewrite of what we have done at that stage to match the new
> 0.7 database schema. So our aim is post 0.7
> (plus rewrite of PMgrid Admin Tools) we will try to
> open source that new version for people. In the meantime I
> intend to release the draft documentation on the current
> version soon (a few weeks away) for people to see and
> comment on.
>
>  
>
> Just to put credit where its due I wish to point out that
> whilst I am managing and documenting this, the hard
> programming work has all been done by Peetr Maynard of
> PMgrid who is doing all this in his spare time. This
> coupled with the fact that we are running a grid
> and experimenting on other Opensim issues means
> progress on this will be slow. My appologies for that.
>
>  
>
> I am available a lot of the time (retired from RL work
> unlike Peetr.... /me has smug grin on face) for a voice chat
> on windows live messenger ([hidden email])
> for anyone who wants to discuss what we are doing on this or
> other topics. I regard all input as useful, thoughts as well
> as action. Your thoughts may or may not change what we
> are doing but it will certainly change how we think about
> what we are doing.
>
>  
>
> BTW: We are also exploring an idea for distributing asset
> serving geographically to solve an issue with US users
> on UK grids running slowly, and vice versa, but that is
> another story and too early to share yet, except in voice.
>
>  
>
>
>  
> > Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 01:33:26 -0800
> > From: [hidden email]
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] MySQL on seperate
> server?
> >
> > I think you summarize the problem quite well!
> >
> > At this point it must be done at the database (SQL)
> level.
> >
> > Unfortunately the solution is neither a simple nor
> straightforward since it involves essentially reconstructing
> the "back links" (or "reverse indexes")
> and identifying the assets which have nothing which refers
> to them! Somewhat analogous to unscrambling an omelet!
> >
> > Likewise duplicates require comparing MD5 hashes of
> every asset to find identical ones!
> >
> > Obviously there are short-cuts, but the biggest
> problem is ensuring database integrity and making certain
> that the correct links are maintained.
> >
> > The biggest problem comes when a central asset server
> is used such as found in OSGrid. OSGrid (and by implication
> most large OpenSim grids) are essentially dynamic, there is
> no guarantee that any specific region will be connected!
> >
> > The Second Life version of the problem problem is
> relatively benign since Second Life can assume that all
> regions are connected so a simple poll of the regions should
> produce an listing of every reference to an asset.
> >
> > Lacking this "continuous connect" means that
> some means must be provided to preserve references when a
> region is not connected!
> >
> > Adding a hypergrided asset server makes this problem
> even worse.
> >
> > The "time window" approach seems to be the
> most reasonable solution to these "disconnects".
> My instincts (developed from 45 years of EDA software!)
> tells me that things like the right "time window"
> will be critical and not going to be easily determined.
> >
> > I wonder if there is a better solution?
> >
> > Bob Wellman has at least a preliminary solution to the
> simpler cases, hopefully his solution can be extended to the
> more complex ones.
> >
> > No doubt this will prove itself in testing. We can
> certainly expect some "interesting" surprises
> which no one has thought about along the way though.
> >
> > The usual caveats about alpha code apply!
> >
> > DISCLAIMER: Bob is doing this part time so please
> don't inundate him with requests for his code or for
> specific features! I am sure offers for help would be
> appreciated though.
> >
> > Karen
> >
> > --- On Fri, 2/19/10, Impalah Shenzhou
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > From: Impalah Shenzhou <[hidden email]>
> > > Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] MySQL on seperate
> server?
> > > To: [hidden email]
> > > Date: Friday, February 19, 2010, 1:56 AM
> > > I had the temptation to do a cron
> > > script to delete "orphan" assets but,
> using grid
> > > configuration, I've found that:
> > > - Assets are disconnected from users. So the
> > > only way to know the owner of an asset is to
> request info to
> > > Inventory Servers. Not a real problem... or
> direct accessing
> > > to inventory database or implementing a method
> for querying
> > > on inventory server.
> > > - Objects in regions are not in any user
> inventory, so
> > > the script has to query all regions in the
> grid.-
> > > It is possible that a user has his/her own
> inventory server,
> > > so each of them should be checked as well.
> > > - And of course the script should query the user
> > > server first to get user data, and then the
> inventory server
> > > defined in the data.- Could be possible to query
> > > the last access for an asset too but... which is
> the time
> > > window to consider an asset "useless"?
> > >
> > > So maybe for 10-20 regions I won't have too
> > > much problems but "what if" I have
> > > 100?
> > > Opensim does not provide some methods natively
> > > (I understand that it is a secondary problem
> nowadays) so
> > > the easy solution is direct access to database.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 2010/2/18 Karen Palen
> <[hidden email]>
> > >
> > > I have to wonder if there is not some MySQL
> problem that is
> > > contributing to this.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bob Wellman"
> <[hidden email]>
> > > and I had an extended discussion about this a
> couple of
> > > weeks ago.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > We both have observed that the OpenSim database
> never
> > > deletes database entries for assets! In addition
> there are
> > > numerous duplicate entries, especially
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bob has actually done something about this and
> has written
> > > some PHP based MySQL scripts to remove duplicate
> entries and
> > > unused entries. Right now he is upgrading his
> scripts to
> > > make them somewhat portable and I anticipate
> testing them on
> > > my private region in the near future.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > My database grew to over 1.2Gb for a single
> region! I used
> > > a very crude way to fix the problem, I dumped all
> of my
> > > inventory to an IAR file, then dumped the region
> data to an
> > > OAR file.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Now with 5 regions the database occupies less
> than 200Mb!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Obviously if there is that much difference in the
> database
> > > size then you are going to see a performance
> difference in
> > > the database!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > This has not been a problem with OpenSim so far,
> probably
> > > because very few users have kept a database for
> more than a
> > > month or so. Our feeling is that this will soon
> become a
> > > problem since OPenSim is now stable enough to get
> some
> > > serious use!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > We will be posting updates here and on the Wiki
> as soon as
> > > there is anything to share!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Karen
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On Thu, 2/18/10, Master_Mirage
> <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > From: Master_Mirage
> <[hidden email]>
> > >
> > > > Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] MySQL on
> > > seperate server?
> > >
> > > > To: [hidden email]
> > >
> > > > Date: Thursday, February 18, 2010, 9:56 AM
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > I arrive late, as usual :-)
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > When a region has around 12000 primitives,
> with a db
> > > server
> > >
> > > > on the same
> > >
> > > > machine you will have hell on earth or
> something like
> > >
> > > > that.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Boot up time is around 10 minutes and is
> impossible to
> > > do
> > >
> > > > anything but using
> > >
> > > > zoom. Impossible to move.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > I have tested this with 3 machines (4Gb ram,
> 500Gb hd
> > > RAID,
> > >
> > > > Intel Core Duo
> > >
> > > > 1,73, Intel Core duo 2,3 and amd64) running
> windows
> > > XP,
> > >
> > > > Vista and Windows
> > >
> > > > 7-64 bits.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > I was using grid mode (grid server on
> separate
> > > computer...
> > >
> > > > no ROBUST or
> > >
> > > > UGAIM, it uses a PHP ugaim system).
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Separating Mysql to another machine on the
> same local
> > >
> > > > network (100 Mbps nc)
> > >
> > > > I could move, build, and even another avatar
> could
> > > enter.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Exporting db and running it on separate
> server with
> > > Linux
> > >
> > > > (ubuntu server
> > >
> > > > 9.04) I could fill the region with 5000 more
> prims and
> > > 2
> > >
> > > > avatars could work
> > >
> > > > smooth.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Running opensim on Linux (amd64, 4gb ram,
> ubuntu
> > > server
> > >
> > > > 9.04 64 bits) and db
> > >
> > > > on separate linux server 2 avatars could
> work smoothly
> > > and
> > >
> > > > filling the
> > >
> > > > region with 25000 prims (no simple prims,
> but
> > > different
> > >
> > > > sizes, texturized
> > >
> > > > and scripted).
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Anyway, that were my "home"
> experiences...
> > > My conclusion:
> > >
> > > > separate db, don't
> > >
> > > > use windows.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Greetings
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Well 1st a bit on that. going back in time
> 1.5 years
> > > now
> > >
> > > > running
> > >
> > > > opensimulator, At 1st it dident really
> matter as
> > > there
> > >
> > > > wasent enough of a DB
> > >
> > > > to become a problem with YET. I had to take
> in
> > > account
> > >
> > > > baised on (no was
> > >
> > > > really shure about anything) what it was i
> wanted
> > > someday.
> > >
> > > > I knew that both
> > >
> > > > linux and win were used but seemed a hot
> argument and
> > > still
> > >
> > > > no one really
> > >
> > > > had an answer for whats best for running a
> grid on. I
> > >
> > > > Decided  that the only
> > >
> > > > true way to know is run both and see.
> > >
> > > > So i purchaced 5 quad core servers all the
> same equip.
> > > ram
> > >
> > > > ect. To me this
> > >
> > > > would be enough putter power to find out
> with. Remeber
> > > that
> > >
> > > > opensimulator is
> > >
> > > > still alpha and was more so then.
> > >
> > > > I begain testing the MANY ways a grid can be
> formed
> > > and the
> > >
> > > > equip. made it a
> > >
> > > > bit easyer to see it Side By Side in real
> time.
> > >
> > > > It dident take long to see that mysql would
> grow in
> > >
> > > > perpotion to the db size
> > >
> > > > as to its own demands.
> > >
> > > > At 1st it was faster to have mysql local to
> the
> > > services
> > >
> > > > and was for
> > >
> > > > sometime. Later it started to glom onto the
> same
> > > resources
> > >
> > > > the instances
> > >
> > > > needed and begain to get verry slow. At that
> point
> > > assets
> > >
> > > > were around 3-4
> > >
> > > > gigs. Seeing the problem i knew i had to do
> something
> > > as
> > >
> > > > the longer i waited
> > >
> > > > the worse it would get.
> > >
> > > > Moved Mysql to another box knowing latency
> would be
> > > there.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > That indeed delt with the 'tipping
> point' it
> > > reached. It
> > >
> > > > wasent hard to see
> > >
> > > > for my selph what happend.
> > >
> > > > That worked well for sometime but it begain
> to develop
> > > its
> > >
> > > > own problems due
> > >
> > > > to the unknowen) as to its settings. Had to
> readj the
> > > MySql
> > >
> > > > settings 4 times
> > >
> > > > and 2 total rebuilds due to the never ending
> growth
> > > of
> > >
> > > > assest data. When it
> > >
> > > > hit around 10-11gigs assests a whole new set
> of
> > > problems
> > >
> > > > showed up. The big
> > >
> > > > one is all that data has to be maintained
> and backed
> > > up.
> > >
> > > > This took most of a
> > >
> > > > day of downtime as why its doing all that
> its locking
> > > the
> > >
> > > > tables and
> > >
> > > > Opensimulator freeks. Thats not good and not
> only is
> > > the
> > >
> > > > grid offline but
> > >
> > > > the amout of time by me to work on it
> became
> > > excessive. As
> > >
> > > > orginaly i had
> > >
> > > > bee wise and bought enough computers i spent
> a good
> > > while
> > >
> > > > learing about
> > >
> > > > Mysql replication. This does solve some of
> the
> > > problems as
> > >
> > > > it lets me switch
> > >
> > > > the services to use the other Mysql and
> allows maint
> > > to
> > >
> > > > happen with little
> > >
> > > > effort.
> > >
> > > > Only the one maint is beeing done on has
> tables locked
> > > not
> > >
> > > > both.
> > >
> > > > Moveing to current time. 23+gigs assests and
> at my
> > > goal of
> > >
> > > > 100 regions
> > >
> > > > (un-told amout of prims and scripts
> whatever) it was
> > > a
> > >
> > > > verry good plan.
> > >
> > > > Is it as fast as it could be? Nope! The
> problem will
> > >
> > > > allways be there. Is it
> > >
> > > > scaleable? You betcha!.
> > >
> > > > I guess my point is Depends on what you
> expect your
> > > grid
> > >
> > > > tobe and planning
> > >
> > > > assuming worse case as best as you can.
> > >
> > > > Opensimulator is made to be as felxable as
> it needs
> > > tobe
> > >
> > > > and what oper.
> > >
> > > > system i find is a push. Both do an
> excellent job and
> > > Both
> > >
> > > > can and do show
> > >
> > > > the same performance when set up properly.
> > >
> > > > For me the differances realy boiled down to
> what was
> > > more
> > >
> > > > comfortable for me
> > >
> > > > to maintain. In my case im dealing with many
> servers
> > > acting
> > >
> > > > as one. If you
> > >
> > > > ask me whats better ill say none.
> > >
> > > > My best suggestion for ppl starting out is
> expect
> > > nothing
> > >
> > > > and be really
> > >
> > > > happy when it all works better than you
> though
> > >
> > > > :-)
> > >
> > > > There will allways be argument and theroy
> and thats a
> > > good
> > >
> > > > thing but there
> > >
> > > > is no better judge than you and what you can
> see in
> > >
> > > > realtime.
> > >
> > > > :working:
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > --
> > >
> > > > View this message in context:
> http://n2.nabble.com/MySQL-on-seperate-server-tp4575740p4592890.html
> > >
> > > > Sent from the opensim-users mailing list
> archive at
> > >
> > > > Nabble.com.
> > >
> > > >
> _______________________________________________
> > >
> > > > Opensim-users mailing list
> > >
> > > > [hidden email]
> > >
> > > >
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > > Opensim-users mailing list
> > >
> > > [hidden email]
> > >
> > >
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Opensim-users mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > >
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Opensim-users mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> >
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>      
> Do you have a story that started on
> Hotmail? Tell
> us now
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
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>


     
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Re: MySQL on seperate server?

Karen_Palen
In reply to this post by Impalah Shenzhou
This brings to mind the classic "Thing King" story

http://www.netjeff.com/humor/item.cgi?file=TheThingKing

This text was originally written as serious position paper circa 1965 by an IBM research team working on the idea of Virtual Memory.

They did actually use this terminology in describing their project! It was really weird listening to a talk by these folks. :-)

While it seems humorous today, it does give one of the best descriptions of the operation of virtual memory that I have ever seen!

I the relevence to the idea of a "historical" asset base should be obvious.

Any form of "historical" database is directly a tradeoff between "expensive" memory and complexity. However it too will have some finite limit to its size!

My thought is that some local grid (or maybe even client!) index of "this is the stuff that I use" might serve the purpose without getting into the "never delete anything" trap.

This too has some issues with malicious clients/grids. Having the "untrusted guy" merely handle an index key rather than the actual asset data would seem to solve most of the problems.

Karen

--- On Fri, 2/19/10, Impalah Shenzhou <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Impalah Shenzhou <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] MySQL on seperate server?
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Friday, February 19, 2010, 2:55 AM
> Yes, the main problem is the p2p way
> opensim works. You'll never be absolutely sure if you
> are deleting an unused asset.
>
> Another temporary solution affecting only to
> Asset server (which I want to implement on my own grid
> servers) is a historical backup asset server: When an asset
> hasn't been used for X time, delete from main database
> and pass to historical.
>
> When an asset is requested, first look for it in
> main database, if it is not there, search on historical, if
> it's there, copy to main and return.
> Of course there could be some overload when some
> old users/regions come into the grid... but keeping the main
> database to a minimal or "workable" size, for me
> is a big advantage.
>
> I was reading time ago about the Facebook
> architecture with thousand of gigabytes wasted on memcache
> servers... This idea is similar, the main database will work
> as a cache and the historical can be... even a file storing
> system (remember that assets can be stored as xml
> files).
>
> Greetings
>
>
> 2010/2/19 Karen Palen <[hidden email]>
>
> I think you summarize the problem quite well!
>
>
>
> At this point it must be done at the database (SQL) level.
>
>
>
> Unfortunately the solution is neither a simple nor
> straightforward since it involves essentially reconstructing
> the "back links" (or "reverse indexes")
> and identifying the assets which have nothing which refers
> to them! Somewhat analogous to unscrambling an omelet!
>
>
>
>
> Likewise duplicates require comparing MD5 hashes of every
> asset to find identical ones!
>
>
>
> Obviously there are short-cuts, but the biggest problem is
> ensuring database integrity and making certain that the
> correct links are maintained.
>
>
>
> The biggest problem comes when a central asset server is
> used such as found in OSGrid. OSGrid (and by implication
> most large OpenSim grids) are essentially dynamic, there is
> no guarantee that any specific region will be connected!
>
>
>
>
> The Second Life version of the problem problem is
> relatively benign since Second Life can assume that all
> regions are connected so a simple poll of the regions should
> produce an listing of every reference to an asset.
>
>
>
>
> Lacking this "continuous connect" means that some
> means must be provided to preserve references when a region
> is not connected!
>
>
>
> Adding a hypergrided asset server makes this problem even
> worse.
>
>
>
> The "time window" approach seems to be the most
> reasonable solution to these "disconnects". My
> instincts (developed from 45 years of EDA software!) tells
> me that things like the right "time window" will
> be  critical and not going to be easily determined.
>
>
>
>
> I wonder if there is a better solution?
>
>
>
> Bob Wellman has at least a preliminary solution to the
> simpler cases, hopefully his solution can be extended to the
> more complex ones.
>
>
>
> No doubt this will prove itself in testing. We can
> certainly expect some "interesting" surprises
> which no one has thought about along the way though.
>
>
>
> The usual caveats about alpha code apply!
>
>
>
> DISCLAIMER: Bob is doing this part time so please don't
> inundate him with requests for his code or for specific
> features! I am sure offers for help would be appreciated
> though.
>
>
>
> Karen
>
>
>
> --- On Fri, 2/19/10, Impalah Shenzhou <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > From: Impalah Shenzhou <[hidden email]>
>
> > Subject: Re: [Opensim-users]
> MySQL on seperate server?
>
> > To: [hidden email]
>
> > Date: Friday, February 19, 2010, 1:56 AM
>
> > I had the temptation to do a
> cron
>
> > script to delete "orphan" assets but, using
> grid
>
> > configuration, I've found that:
>
> > - Assets are disconnected from users. So the
>
> > only way to know the owner of an asset is to request
> info to
>
> > Inventory Servers. Not a real problem... or direct
> accessing
>
> > to inventory database or implementing a method for
> querying
>
> > on inventory server.
>
> > - Objects in regions are not in any user inventory,
> so
>
> > the script has to query all regions in the grid.-
>
> > It is possible that a user has his/her own inventory
> server,
>
> > so each of them should be checked as well.
>
> > - And of course the script should query the user
>
> > server first to get user data, and then the inventory
> server
>
> > defined in the data.- Could be possible to query
>
> > the last access for an asset too but... which is the
> time
>
> > window to consider an asset "useless"?
>
> >
>
> > So maybe for 10-20 regions I won't have too
>
> > much problems but "what if" I have
>
> > 100?
>
> > Opensim does not provide some methods natively
>
> > (I understand that it is a secondary problem nowadays)
> so
>
> > the easy solution is direct access to database.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > 2010/2/18 Karen Palen <[hidden email]>
>
> >
>
> > I have to wonder if there is not some MySQL problem
> that is
>
> > contributing to this.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Bob Wellman" <[hidden email]>
>
> > and I had an extended discussion about this a couple
> of
>
> > weeks ago.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > We both have observed that the OpenSim database never
>
> > deletes database entries for assets! In addition there
> are
>
> > numerous duplicate entries, especially
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Bob has actually done something about this and has
> written
>
> > some PHP based MySQL scripts to remove duplicate
> entries and
>
> > unused entries. Right now he is upgrading his scripts
> to
>
> > make them somewhat portable and I anticipate testing
> them on
>
> > my private region in the near future.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > My database grew to over 1.2Gb for a single region! I
> used
>
> > a very crude way to fix the problem, I dumped all of
> my
>
> > inventory to an IAR file, then dumped the region data
> to an
>
> > OAR file.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Now with 5 regions the database occupies less than
> 200Mb!
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Obviously if there is that much difference in the
> database
>
> > size then you are going to see a performance
> difference in
>
> > the database!
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > This has not been a problem with OpenSim so far,
> probably
>
> > because very few users have kept a database for more
> than a
>
> > month or so. Our feeling is that this will soon become
> a
>
> > problem since OPenSim is now stable enough to get
> some
>
> > serious use!
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > We will be posting updates here and on the Wiki as
> soon as
>
> > there is anything to share!
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Karen
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --- On Thu, 2/18/10, Master_Mirage <[hidden email]>
>
> > wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > From: Master_Mirage <[hidden email]>
>
> >
>
> > > Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] MySQL on
>
> > seperate server?
>
> >
>
> > > To: [hidden email]
>
> >
>
> > > Date: Thursday, February 18, 2010, 9:56 AM
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > I arrive late, as usual :-)
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > When a region has around 12000 primitives, with a
> db
>
> > server
>
> >
>
> > > on the same
>
> >
>
> > > machine you will have hell on earth or something
> like
>
> >
>
> > > that.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Boot up time is around 10 minutes and is
> impossible to
>
> > do
>
> >
>
> > > anything but using
>
> >
>
> > > zoom. Impossible to move.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > I have tested this with 3 machines (4Gb ram,
> 500Gb hd
>
> > RAID,
>
> >
>
> > > Intel Core Duo
>
> >
>
> > > 1,73, Intel Core duo 2,3 and amd64) running
> windows
>
> > XP,
>
> >
>
> > > Vista and Windows
>
> >
>
> > > 7-64 bits.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > I was using grid mode (grid server on separate
>
> > computer...
>
> >
>
> > > no ROBUST or
>
> >
>
> > > UGAIM, it uses a PHP ugaim system).
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Separating Mysql to another machine on the same
> local
>
> >
>
> > > network (100 Mbps nc)
>
> >
>
> > > I could move, build, and even another avatar
> could
>
> > enter.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Exporting db and running it on separate server
> with
>
> > Linux
>
> >
>
> > > (ubuntu server
>
> >
>
> > > 9.04) I could fill the region with 5000 more
> prims and
>
> > 2
>
> >
>
> > > avatars could work
>
> >
>
> > > smooth.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Running opensim on Linux (amd64, 4gb ram, ubuntu
>
> > server
>
> >
>
> > > 9.04 64 bits) and db
>
> >
>
> > > on separate linux server 2 avatars could work
> smoothly
>
> > and
>
> >
>
> > > filling the
>
> >
>
> > > region with 25000 prims (no simple prims, but
>
> > different
>
> >
>
> > > sizes, texturized
>
> >
>
> > > and scripted).
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Anyway, that were my "home"
> experiences...
>
> > My conclusion:
>
> >
>
> > > separate db, don't
>
> >
>
> > > use windows.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Greetings
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Well 1st a bit on that. going back in time 1.5
> years
>
> > now
>
> >
>
> > > running
>
> >
>
> > > opensimulator, At 1st it dident really matter as
>
> > there
>
> >
>
> > > wasent enough of a DB
>
> >
>
> > > to become a problem with YET. I had to take in
>
> > account
>
> >
>
> > > baised on (no was
>
> >
>
> > > really shure about anything) what it was i
> wanted
>
> > someday.
>
> >
>
> > > I knew that both
>
> >
>
> > > linux and win were used but seemed a hot argument
> and
>
> > still
>
> >
>
> > > no one really
>
> >
>
> > > had an answer for whats best for running a grid
> on. I
>
> >
>
> > > Decided  that the only
>
> >
>
> > > true way to know is run both and see.
>
> >
>
> > > So i purchaced 5 quad core servers all the same
> equip.
>
> > ram
>
> >
>
> > > ect. To me this
>
> >
>
> > > would be enough putter power to find out with.
> Remeber
>
> > that
>
> >
>
> > > opensimulator is
>
> >
>
> > > still alpha and was more so then.
>
> >
>
> > > I begain testing the MANY ways a grid can be
> formed
>
> > and the
>
> >
>
> > > equip. made it a
>
> >
>
> > > bit easyer to see it Side By Side in real time.
>
> >
>
> > > It dident take long to see that mysql would grow
> in
>
> >
>
> > > perpotion to the db size
>
> >
>
> > > as to its own demands.
>
> >
>
> > > At 1st it was faster to have mysql local to the
>
> > services
>
> >
>
> > > and was for
>
> >
>
> > > sometime. Later it started to glom onto the same
>
> > resources
>
> >
>
> > > the instances
>
> >
>
> > > needed and begain to get verry slow. At that
> point
>
> > assets
>
> >
>
> > > were around 3-4
>
> >
>
> > > gigs. Seeing the problem i knew i had to do
> something
>
> > as
>
> >
>
> > > the longer i waited
>
> >
>
> > > the worse it would get.
>
> >
>
> > > Moved Mysql to another box knowing latency would
> be
>
> > there.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > That indeed delt with the 'tipping point'
> it
>
> > reached. It
>
> >
>
> > > wasent hard to see
>
> >
>
> > > for my selph what happend.
>
> >
>
> > > That worked well for sometime but it begain to
> develop
>
> > its
>
> >
>
> > > own problems due
>
> >
>
> > > to the unknowen) as to its settings. Had to readj
> the
>
> > MySql
>
> >
>
> > > settings 4 times
>
> >
>
> > > and 2 total rebuilds due to the never ending
> growth
>
> > of
>
> >
>
> > > assest data. When it
>
> >
>
> > > hit around 10-11gigs assests a whole new set of
>
> > problems
>
> >
>
> > > showed up. The big
>
> >
>
> > > one is all that data has to be maintained and
> backed
>
> > up.
>
> >
>
> > > This took most of a
>
> >
>
> > > day of downtime as why its doing all that its
> locking
>
> > the
>
> >
>
> > > tables and
>
> >
>
> > > Opensimulator freeks. Thats not good and not only
> is
>
> > the
>
> >
>
> > > grid offline but
>
> >
>
> > > the amout of time by me to work on it became
>
> > excessive. As
>
> >
>
> > > orginaly i had
>
> >
>
> > > bee wise and bought enough computers i spent a
> good
>
> > while
>
> >
>
> > > learing about
>
> >
>
> > > Mysql replication. This does solve some of the
>
> > problems as
>
> >
>
> > > it lets me switch
>
> >
>
> > > the services to use the other Mysql and allows
> maint
>
> > to
>
> >
>
> > > happen with little
>
> >
>
> > > effort.
>
> >
>
> > > Only the one maint is beeing done on has tables
> locked
>
> > not
>
> >
>
> > > both.
>
> >
>
> > > Moveing to current time. 23+gigs assests and at
> my
>
> > goal of
>
> >
>
> > > 100 regions
>
> >
>
> > > (un-told amout of prims and scripts whatever) it
> was
>
> > a
>
> >
>
> > > verry good plan.
>
> >
>
> > > Is it as fast as it could be? Nope! The problem
> will
>
> >
>
> > > allways be there. Is it
>
> >
>
> > > scaleable? You betcha!.
>
> >
>
> > > I guess my point is Depends on what you expect
> your
>
> > grid
>
> >
>
> > > tobe and planning
>
> >
>
> > > assuming worse case as best as you can.
>
> >
>
> > > Opensimulator is made to be as felxable as it
> needs
>
> > tobe
>
> >
>
> > > and what oper.
>
> >
>
> > > system i find is a push. Both do an excellent job
> and
>
> > Both
>
> >
>
> > > can and do show
>
> >
>
> > > the same performance when set up properly.
>
> >
>
> > > For me the differances realy boiled down to what
> was
>
> > more
>
> >
>
> > > comfortable for me
>
> >
>
> > > to maintain. In my case im dealing with many
> servers
>
> > acting
>
> >
>
> > > as one. If you
>
> >
>
> > > ask me whats better ill say none.
>
> >
>
> > > My best suggestion for ppl starting out is
> expect
>
> > nothing
>
> >
>
> > > and be really
>
> >
>
> > > happy when it all works better than you though
>
> >
>
> > > :-)
>
> >
>
> > > There will allways be argument and theroy and
> thats a
>
> > good
>
> >
>
> > > thing but there
>
> >
>
> > > is no better judge than you and what you can see
> in
>
> >
>
> > > realtime.
>
> >
>
> > > :working:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > --
>
> >
>
> > > View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/MySQL-on-seperate-server-tp4575740p4592890.html
>
> >
>
> > > Sent from the opensim-users mailing list archive
> at
>
> >
>
> > > Nabble.com.
>
> >
>
> > > _______________________________________________
>
> >
>
> > > Opensim-users mailing list
>
> >
>
> > > [hidden email]
>
> >
>
> > > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> >
>
> > Opensim-users mailing list
>
> >
>
> > [hidden email]
>
> >
>
> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > Opensim-users mailing list
>
> > [hidden email]
>
> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Opensim-users mailing list
>
> [hidden email]
>
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>
>
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>


     
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Re: MySQL on seperate server?

Master_Mirage
In reply to this post by Karen_Palen
I have been playing with mysql proxy, it is LUA scriptable and able to filter,change evan refuse or redirect query's. For me that dosent really help me but seems a good tool and works as a 'man in the middle' besides just beeing a proxy. It may help to sort or at least see what Mysql server is seeing. who knows im not that clever
It did look usefull to me and i just use it for failover but its able to do awhole lot more. It free and the bin or source is aval. in there downloads.

Karen Palen wrote
Bob,

I look forward to helping any way I can!

I suspect that we have to address the standalone or "small grid" problem first since it is really a subset of the worldwide grid problem.

BTW I still need to get the Caledon Railway stuff working on PMGrid BTW - a couple of the scripts did not copy over for some reason.

Karen

--- On Fri, 2/19/10, Bob Wellman <bob.wellman@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

> From: Bob Wellman <bob.wellman@hotmail.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] MySQL on seperate server?
> To: opensim-users@lists.berlios.de
> Date: Friday, February 19, 2010, 3:34 AM
>
>
>
>
>  
> Just to let you know:
>
>  
>
> I am nearing completion of the first rough draft of the
> documentation on our PMgrid Administration tools, which
> includes among other things an analysis of asset
> usages (for small self contained grids only) and the
> ability to archive redundant assets. To use Karen's
> analogy we have "unscrambled the omelette"...LOL.
> BTW: These tools also deal with duplicate assets.
>
>  
>
> As Karen points out we have done all this by working
> directly at the database (SQL) level using a .php web based
> interface. We hope in future to make this available to other
> small grid operators so they can attach it to their own to
> web/opensim interface sites to manage their grid(s). That
> day is I am afraid a way off yet especially as the database
> is about to change dramatically in 0.7 and we will need a
> rewrite of what we have done at that stage to match the new
> 0.7 database schema. So our aim is post 0.7
> (plus rewrite of PMgrid Admin Tools) we will try to
> open source that new version for people. In the meantime I
> intend to release the draft documentation on the current
> version soon (a few weeks away) for people to see and
> comment on.
>
>  
>
> Just to put credit where its due I wish to point out that
> whilst I am managing and documenting this, the hard
> programming work has all been done by Peetr Maynard of
> PMgrid who is doing all this in his spare time. This
> coupled with the fact that we are running a grid
> and experimenting on other Opensim issues means
> progress on this will be slow. My appologies for that.
>
>  
>
> I am available a lot of the time (retired from RL work
> unlike Peetr.... /me has smug grin on face) for a voice chat
> on windows live messenger (bob.wellman@hotmail.co.uk)
> for anyone who wants to discuss what we are doing on this or
> other topics. I regard all input as useful, thoughts as well
> as action. Your thoughts may or may not change what we
> are doing but it will certainly change how we think about
> what we are doing.
>
>  
>
> BTW: We are also exploring an idea for distributing asset
> serving geographically to solve an issue with US users
> on UK grids running slowly, and vice versa, but that is
> another story and too early to share yet, except in voice.
>
>  
>
>
>  
> > Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 01:33:26 -0800
> > From: karen_palen@yahoo.com
> > To: opensim-users@lists.berlios.de
> > Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] MySQL on seperate
> server?
> >
> > I think you summarize the problem quite well!
> >
> > At this point it must be done at the database (SQL)
> level.
> >
> > Unfortunately the solution is neither a simple nor
> straightforward since it involves essentially reconstructing
> the "back links" (or "reverse indexes")
> and identifying the assets which have nothing which refers
> to them! Somewhat analogous to unscrambling an omelet!
> >
> > Likewise duplicates require comparing MD5 hashes of
> every asset to find identical ones!
> >
> > Obviously there are short-cuts, but the biggest
> problem is ensuring database integrity and making certain
> that the correct links are maintained.
> >
> > The biggest problem comes when a central asset server
> is used such as found in OSGrid. OSGrid (and by implication
> most large OpenSim grids) are essentially dynamic, there is
> no guarantee that any specific region will be connected!
> >
> > The Second Life version of the problem problem is
> relatively benign since Second Life can assume that all
> regions are connected so a simple poll of the regions should
> produce an listing of every reference to an asset.
> >
> > Lacking this "continuous connect" means that
> some means must be provided to preserve references when a
> region is not connected!
> >
> > Adding a hypergrided asset server makes this problem
> even worse.
> >
> > The "time window" approach seems to be the
> most reasonable solution to these "disconnects".
> My instincts (developed from 45 years of EDA software!)
> tells me that things like the right "time window"
> will be critical and not going to be easily determined.
> >
> > I wonder if there is a better solution?
> >
> > Bob Wellman has at least a preliminary solution to the
> simpler cases, hopefully his solution can be extended to the
> more complex ones.
> >
> > No doubt this will prove itself in testing. We can
> certainly expect some "interesting" surprises
> which no one has thought about along the way though.
> >
> > The usual caveats about alpha code apply!
> >
> > DISCLAIMER: Bob is doing this part time so please
> don't inundate him with requests for his code or for
> specific features! I am sure offers for help would be
> appreciated though.
> >
> > Karen
> >
> > --- On Fri, 2/19/10, Impalah Shenzhou
> <impalah@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > From: Impalah Shenzhou <impalah@gmail.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] MySQL on seperate
> server?
> > > To: opensim-users@lists.berlios.de
> > > Date: Friday, February 19, 2010, 1:56 AM
> > > I had the temptation to do a cron
> > > script to delete "orphan" assets but,
> using grid
> > > configuration, I've found that:
> > > - Assets are disconnected from users. So the
> > > only way to know the owner of an asset is to
> request info to
> > > Inventory Servers. Not a real problem... or
> direct accessing
> > > to inventory database or implementing a method
> for querying
> > > on inventory server.
> > > - Objects in regions are not in any user
> inventory, so
> > > the script has to query all regions in the
> grid.-
> > > It is possible that a user has his/her own
> inventory server,
> > > so each of them should be checked as well.
> > > - And of course the script should query the user
> > > server first to get user data, and then the
> inventory server
> > > defined in the data.- Could be possible to query
> > > the last access for an asset too but... which is
> the time
> > > window to consider an asset "useless"?
> > >
> > > So maybe for 10-20 regions I won't have too
> > > much problems but "what if" I have
> > > 100?
> > > Opensim does not provide some methods natively
> > > (I understand that it is a secondary problem
> nowadays) so
> > > the easy solution is direct access to database.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 2010/2/18 Karen Palen
> <karen_palen@yahoo.com>
> > >
> > > I have to wonder if there is not some MySQL
> problem that is
> > > contributing to this.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bob Wellman"
> <bob.wellman@hotmail.co.uk>
> > > and I had an extended discussion about this a
> couple of
> > > weeks ago.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > We both have observed that the OpenSim database
> never
> > > deletes database entries for assets! In addition
> there are
> > > numerous duplicate entries, especially
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bob has actually done something about this and
> has written
> > > some PHP based MySQL scripts to remove duplicate
> entries and
> > > unused entries. Right now he is upgrading his
> scripts to
> > > make them somewhat portable and I anticipate
> testing them on
> > > my private region in the near future.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > My database grew to over 1.2Gb for a single
> region! I used
> > > a very crude way to fix the problem, I dumped all
> of my
> > > inventory to an IAR file, then dumped the region
> data to an
> > > OAR file.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Now with 5 regions the database occupies less
> than 200Mb!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Obviously if there is that much difference in the
> database
> > > size then you are going to see a performance
> difference in
> > > the database!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > This has not been a problem with OpenSim so far,
> probably
> > > because very few users have kept a database for
> more than a
> > > month or so. Our feeling is that this will soon
> become a
> > > problem since OPenSim is now stable enough to get
> some
> > > serious use!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > We will be posting updates here and on the Wiki
> as soon as
> > > there is anything to share!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Karen
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On Thu, 2/18/10, Master_Mirage
> <mirage123@verizon.net>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > From: Master_Mirage
> <mirage123@verizon.net>
> > >
> > > > Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] MySQL on
> > > seperate server?
> > >
> > > > To: opensim-users@lists.berlios.de
> > >
> > > > Date: Thursday, February 18, 2010, 9:56 AM
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > I arrive late, as usual :-)
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > When a region has around 12000 primitives,
> with a db
> > > server
> > >
> > > > on the same
> > >
> > > > machine you will have hell on earth or
> something like
> > >
> > > > that.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Boot up time is around 10 minutes and is
> impossible to
> > > do
> > >
> > > > anything but using
> > >
> > > > zoom. Impossible to move.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > I have tested this with 3 machines (4Gb ram,
> 500Gb hd
> > > RAID,
> > >
> > > > Intel Core Duo
> > >
> > > > 1,73, Intel Core duo 2,3 and amd64) running
> windows
> > > XP,
> > >
> > > > Vista and Windows
> > >
> > > > 7-64 bits.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > I was using grid mode (grid server on
> separate
> > > computer...
> > >
> > > > no ROBUST or
> > >
> > > > UGAIM, it uses a PHP ugaim system).
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Separating Mysql to another machine on the
> same local
> > >
> > > > network (100 Mbps nc)
> > >
> > > > I could move, build, and even another avatar
> could
> > > enter.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Exporting db and running it on separate
> server with
> > > Linux
> > >
> > > > (ubuntu server
> > >
> > > > 9.04) I could fill the region with 5000 more
> prims and
> > > 2
> > >
> > > > avatars could work
> > >
> > > > smooth.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Running opensim on Linux (amd64, 4gb ram,
> ubuntu
> > > server
> > >
> > > > 9.04 64 bits) and db
> > >
> > > > on separate linux server 2 avatars could
> work smoothly
> > > and
> > >
> > > > filling the
> > >
> > > > region with 25000 prims (no simple prims,
> but
> > > different
> > >
> > > > sizes, texturized
> > >
> > > > and scripted).
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Anyway, that were my "home"
> experiences...
> > > My conclusion:
> > >
> > > > separate db, don't
> > >
> > > > use windows.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Greetings
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Well 1st a bit on that. going back in time
> 1.5 years
> > > now
> > >
> > > > running
> > >
> > > > opensimulator, At 1st it dident really
> matter as
> > > there
> > >
> > > > wasent enough of a DB
> > >
> > > > to become a problem with YET. I had to take
> in
> > > account
> > >
> > > > baised on (no was
> > >
> > > > really shure about anything) what it was i
> wanted
> > > someday.
> > >
> > > > I knew that both
> > >
> > > > linux and win were used but seemed a hot
> argument and
> > > still
> > >
> > > > no one really
> > >
> > > > had an answer for whats best for running a
> grid on. I
> > >
> > > > Decided  that the only
> > >
> > > > true way to know is run both and see.
> > >
> > > > So i purchaced 5 quad core servers all the
> same equip.
> > > ram
> > >
> > > > ect. To me this
> > >
> > > > would be enough putter power to find out
> with. Remeber
> > > that
> > >
> > > > opensimulator is
> > >
> > > > still alpha and was more so then.
> > >
> > > > I begain testing the MANY ways a grid can be
> formed
> > > and the
> > >
> > > > equip. made it a
> > >
> > > > bit easyer to see it Side By Side in real
> time.
> > >
> > > > It dident take long to see that mysql would
> grow in
> > >
> > > > perpotion to the db size
> > >
> > > > as to its own demands.
> > >
> > > > At 1st it was faster to have mysql local to
> the
> > > services
> > >
> > > > and was for
> > >
> > > > sometime. Later it started to glom onto the
> same
> > > resources
> > >
> > > > the instances
> > >
> > > > needed and begain to get verry slow. At that
> point
> > > assets
> > >
> > > > were around 3-4
> > >
> > > > gigs. Seeing the problem i knew i had to do
> something
> > > as
> > >
> > > > the longer i waited
> > >
> > > > the worse it would get.
> > >
> > > > Moved Mysql to another box knowing latency
> would be
> > > there.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > That indeed delt with the 'tipping
> point' it
> > > reached. It
> > >
> > > > wasent hard to see
> > >
> > > > for my selph what happend.
> > >
> > > > That worked well for sometime but it begain
> to develop
> > > its
> > >
> > > > own problems due
> > >
> > > > to the unknowen) as to its settings. Had to
> readj the
> > > MySql
> > >
> > > > settings 4 times
> > >
> > > > and 2 total rebuilds due to the never ending
> growth
> > > of
> > >
> > > > assest data. When it
> > >
> > > > hit around 10-11gigs assests a whole new set
> of
> > > problems
> > >
> > > > showed up. The big
> > >
> > > > one is all that data has to be maintained
> and backed
> > > up.
> > >
> > > > This took most of a
> > >
> > > > day of downtime as why its doing all that
> its locking
> > > the
> > >
> > > > tables and
> > >
> > > > Opensimulator freeks. Thats not good and not
> only is
> > > the
> > >
> > > > grid offline but
> > >
> > > > the amout of time by me to work on it
> became
> > > excessive. As
> > >
> > > > orginaly i had
> > >
> > > > bee wise and bought enough computers i spent
> a good
> > > while
> > >
> > > > learing about
> > >
> > > > Mysql replication. This does solve some of
> the
> > > problems as
> > >
> > > > it lets me switch
> > >
> > > > the services to use the other Mysql and
> allows maint
> > > to
> > >
> > > > happen with little
> > >
> > > > effort.
> > >
> > > > Only the one maint is beeing done on has
> tables locked
> > > not
> > >
> > > > both.
> > >
> > > > Moveing to current time. 23+gigs assests and
> at my
> > > goal of
> > >
> > > > 100 regions
> > >
> > > > (un-told amout of prims and scripts
> whatever) it was
> > > a
> > >
> > > > verry good plan.
> > >
> > > > Is it as fast as it could be? Nope! The
> problem will
> > >
> > > > allways be there. Is it
> > >
> > > > scaleable? You betcha!.
> > >
> > > > I guess my point is Depends on what you
> expect your
> > > grid
> > >
> > > > tobe and planning
> > >
> > > > assuming worse case as best as you can.
> > >
> > > > Opensimulator is made to be as felxable as
> it needs
> > > tobe
> > >
> > > > and what oper.
> > >
> > > > system i find is a push. Both do an
> excellent job and
> > > Both
> > >
> > > > can and do show
> > >
> > > > the same performance when set up properly.
> > >
> > > > For me the differances realy boiled down to
> what was
> > > more
> > >
> > > > comfortable for me
> > >
> > > > to maintain. In my case im dealing with many
> servers
> > > acting
> > >
> > > > as one. If you
> > >
> > > > ask me whats better ill say none.
> > >
> > > > My best suggestion for ppl starting out is
> expect
> > > nothing
> > >
> > > > and be really
> > >
> > > > happy when it all works better than you
> though
> > >
> > > > :-)
> > >
> > > > There will allways be argument and theroy
> and thats a
> > > good
> > >
> > > > thing but there
> > >
> > > > is no better judge than you and what you can
> see in
> > >
> > > > realtime.
> > >
> > > > :working:
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > --
> > >
> > > > View this message in context:
> http://n2.nabble.com/MySQL-on-seperate-server-tp4575740p4592890.html
> > >
> > > > Sent from the opensim-users mailing list
> archive at
> > >
> > > > Nabble.com.
> > >
> > > >
> _______________________________________________
> > >
> > > > Opensim-users mailing list
> > >
> > > > Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de
> > >
> > > >
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > > Opensim-users mailing list
> > >
> > > Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de
> > >
> > >
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Opensim-users mailing list
> > > Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de
> > >
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Opensim-users mailing list
> > Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de
> >
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>      
> Do you have a story that started on
> Hotmail? Tell
> us now
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>


     
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Re: MySQL on seperate server?

Master_Mirage
In reply to this post by Karen_Palen
<quote author="Karen Palen">
This brings to mind the classic "Thing King" story

http://www.netjeff.com/humor/item.cgi?file=TheThingKing

This text was originally written as serious position paper circa 1965 by an IBM research team working on the idea of Virtual Memory.

They did actually use this terminology in describing their project! It was really weird listening to a talk by these folks. :-)

While it seems humorous today, it does give one of the best descriptions of the operation of virtual memory that I have ever seen!

I the relevence to the idea of a "historical" asset base should be obvious.

Any form of "historical" database is directly a tradeoff between "expensive" memory and complexity. However it too will have some finite limit to its size!

My thought is that some local grid (or maybe even client!) index of "this is the stuff that I use" might serve the purpose without getting into the "never delete anything" trap.

This too has some issues with malicious clients/grids. Having the "untrusted guy" merely handle an index key rather than the actual asset data would seem to solve most of the problems.

Karen

--- On Fri, 2/19/10, Impalah Shenzhou <impalah@gmail.com> wrote:

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ha hahaha thats great! I cant wait to start ZARKING THINGS ...
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Re: MySQL on seperate server?

justincc
In reply to this post by Bob Wellman
Bob Wellman wrote:

>  Actually Stefan you are quite right... Asset references are everywhere
> that's why it has taken us ages to write something to find and analyse
> them _ALL._
>  
> We had already recognised that asset references occur in many places
> including inside certain asset blobs and our analysis tools takes that
> into account. It finds every reference to an asset UUID no matter where
> it occurs. Our Adimin Tool finds even those references inside a script
> or clothing assets. We even analyse those in a particle system attached
> to a prim (the particle texture for instance). And belive me they are in
> many other places as well. We have been very thorough. I don't say we
> haven't missed one but, if we have missed one, the way we have written
> the process makes adding another source of references fairly easy to do.

Just as a check Bob, you might want to read the OpenSim.Region.Framework.Scenes.UuidGatherer class in OpenSim which identifies all the assets used by a particular scene object in order to correctly take them all into an OAR/IAR.  I'd be very interested if you've come across anything that I missed out (I sincerely hope not!).

--
Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
http://justincc.org
http://twitter.com/justincc
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Re: MySQL on seperate server?

Karen_Palen
In reply to this post by Master_Mirage


--- On Fri, 2/19/10, Master_Mirage <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Master_Mirage <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] MySQL on seperate server?
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Friday, February 19, 2010, 1:44 PM
>
>
> This brings to mind the classic "Thing King" story
>
> http://www.netjeff.com/humor/item.cgi?file=TheThingKing

> --- On Fri, 2/19/10, Impalah Shenzhou <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ha hahaha thats great! I cant wait to start ZARKING THINGS
> ... :-D
>


But first you need a new ZORCH gun!!

LOL


     
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Re: MySQL on seperate server?

Sean Hennessee
"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!"

http://www.jabberwocky.com/carroll/jabber/jabberwocky.html

~Sean

Karen Palen wrote:

>
> --- On Fri, 2/19/10, Master_Mirage <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> From: Master_Mirage <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] MySQL on seperate server?
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Date: Friday, February 19, 2010, 1:44 PM
>>
>>
>> This brings to mind the classic "Thing King" story
>>
>> http://www.netjeff.com/humor/item.cgi?file=TheThingKing
>
>> --- On Fri, 2/19/10, Impalah Shenzhou <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Ha hahaha thats great! I cant wait to start ZARKING THINGS
>> ... :-D
>>
>
>
> But first you need a new ZORCH gun!!
>
> LOL
>
>

--

Sean Hennessee
UC Irvine


... . .- -. /  .... . -. -. . ... ... . .
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Re: MySQL on seperate server?

Bob Wellman
In reply to this post by justincc
Unfortunately Justin I dont have any C# skills for that task.
 
I got so fed up with saying that, I actually bought "C# for dummies" this week and am trying to get it read quick, so I can at least read the Opensim code to see how it all hangs together. I hate being excluded by my own ignorance.
 
I agree it would be good to cross check our assumptions so Ill see if I can think how  best I could do that without any c# skills. Will contact you when/if I figure out how to do it.

 

> Date: Fri, 19 Feb 2010 23:00:26 +0000
> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] MySQL on seperate server?
>
> Bob Wellman wrote:
> > Actually Stefan you are quite right... Asset references are everywhere
> > that's why it has taken us ages to write something to find and analyse
> > them _ALL._
> >
> > We had already recognised that asset references occur in many places
> > including inside certain asset blobs and our analysis tools takes that
> > into account. It finds every reference to an asset UUID no matter where
> > it occurs. Our Adimin Tool finds even those references inside a script
> > or clothing assets. We even analyse those in a particle system attached
> > to a prim (the particle texture for instance). And belive me they are in
> > many other places as well. We have been very thorough. I don't say we
> > haven't missed one but, if we have missed one, the way we have written
> > the process makes adding another source of references fairly easy to do.
>
> Just as a check Bob, you might want to read the OpenSim.Region.Framework.Scenes.UuidGatherer class in OpenSim which identifies all the assets used by a particular scene object in order to correctly take them all into an OAR/IAR. I'd be very interested if you've come across anything that I missed out (I sincerely hope not!).
>
> --
> Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
> http://justincc.org
> http://twitter.com/justincc
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


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