Parcel Archiver?

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Re: Parcel Archiver?

justincc
Robert Klein wrote:

> Wow, it is really starting to sound like we need a more robust tool for
> backing up, restoring, merging, and upgrading regions and parcels. The use
> case I have is my standalone has a region that has been subdivided into 32
> parcels. Each parcel is an office space where the user can personalize their
> own space. As people roll on and off projects I need to be able to backup a
> parcel and replace it with a blank one for the next user. If the original
> user comes back for another project I need to restore their office space to
> either the same spot or another spot that is available. I seriously do not
> want to backup and restore entire regions for each change of a tiny parcel.
> Also if you rent out an event space think of how easy it would be to just
> bring events up and down based on each time slot. This would give OpenSim a
> really cool and useful advantage.

One thing I forgot to mention is that spending some time with megaregion + OAR
issues is also on the todo long list.

>
> -Robert
>
>
> Diva Canto wrote:
>> Yep, that's my use case too. More and more, the apps I'm involved with
>> include people building things in separate development sims, possibly
>> over copies of a base model, and then having a deployment sim where
>> things are merged periodically.
>>
>> Bob Wellman wrote:
>>> I agree with Diva it would be good if on Save_oar we could specify
>>> owner-id and then the saved file would only contain prims owned by that
>>> user. However it needs to be part of a bigger change I think in trems of
>>> loading oar being less all or nothing too.
>>>  
>>> One of the problems with LOAD_OAR at present is the way it replaces
>>> everything in a sim. It would be good if there were an option to replace
>>> or add to whats in a sim already with whats on the file being loaded.
>>> Maybe the replace/add options could be filtered to replace only parts of
>>> the build (eg. replace Nicks prims with the new oar of Nicks prims
>>> leaving Toms prims where they are).
>>>  
>>> The use case I am thinking of is where a sim (a city) is built by the
>>> sim owner (Nick) in a standalone grid and loaded via OAR files to a
>>> public grid. Then in that public grid other people (Tom) adds
>>> furnishings to the sim in the public grid. In the meantime the sim owner
>>> (Tom) makes a mark 2 version of the sim in his standalone which he wants
>>> to use to upgrade the one in the public grid. If he does load-oar he
>>> loses all the work done by others (Tom) in the public grid version. What
>>> he wants to do is merge his work with others. So we need someway to save
>>> each contribution and merge them.
>>>  
>>> I leave it to others wiser than me to devise a syntax for this.
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  > Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 07:51:55 -0800
>>>  > From: [hidden email]
>>>  > To: [hidden email]
>>>  > Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Parcel Archiver?
>>>  >
>>>  > There are several kinds of filters one could add to the general
>>>  > archiving facility. Parcels... why not. Another one -- more important
>>> to
>>>  > me -- is owner id.
>>>  >
>>>  > Stefan Andersson wrote:
>>>  > > There is of course always the option to implement a region module
>>> that can
>>>  > > implement some fairly more detailed use case, maybe connecting to
>>> stuff like
>>>  > > scheduled jobs et c.
>>>  > >
>>>  > > /Stefan
>>>  > >
>>>  > >> -----Original Message-----
>>>  > >> From: [hidden email] [mailto:opensim-users-
>>>  > >> [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Robert Klein
>>>  > >> Sent: den 21 november 2009 15:24
>>>  > >> To: [hidden email]
>>>  > >> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Parcel Archiver?
>>>  > >>
>>>  > >>
>>>  > >> I see your points and was only suggesting we have some refined way
>>> of
>>>  > >> backing
>>>  > >> up regions instead of either all or nothing. Even a basic program
>>> for
>>>  > >> backing up data on a computer allows you to backup either the whole
>>>  > >> disk,
>>>  > >> individual directories, and individual files (tar vs dd for
>>> example).
>>>  > >> We
>>>  > >> have methods for backing up the whole drive and individual files
>>> but
>>>  > >> not
>>>  > >> directories. It just seems unbalanced.
>>>  > >>
>>>  > >> I have seen some pretty intense builds in SL and OS on relatively
>>> small
>>>  > >> parcels that would be a huge issue to recreate. The IAR files are
>>> great
>>>  > >> but
>>>  > >> are not a reasonable method for backing up and restoring a 64 x 128
>>>  > >> parcel
>>>  > >> with several buildings full of content including a museum and
>>>  > >> stage/events
>>>  > >> area or a nightclub. Experience tells me we are going to need this
>>> if
>>>  > >> we
>>>  > >> continue to support the concept of having parcels.
>>>  > >>
>>>  > >> -Robert
>>>  > >>
>>>  > >>
>>>  > >> Stefan Andersson-3 wrote:
>>>  > >>> One way to go about it could be to make sure the oar is subdivided
>>>  > >> into
>>>  > >>> parcels when storing it; if so, one would probably backup the
>>> whole
>>>  > >> oar,
>>>  > >>> but
>>>  > >>> be able to restore only parts of the oar.
>>>  > >>>
>>>  > >>>
>>>  > >>>
>>>  > >>> I have only used oars for full backup, so I don't know if the
>>> parcel
>>>  > >> info
>>>  > >>> is
>>>  > >>> already stored in it?
>>>  > >>>
>>>  > >>>
>>>  > >>>
>>>  > >>> /Stefan
>>>  > >>>
>>>  > >>>
>>>  > >>>
>>>  > >>> From: [hidden email]
>>>  > >>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Len
>>>  > >> Brown
>>>  > >>> Sent: den 21 november 2009 09:20
>>>  > >>> To: [hidden email]
>>>  > >>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Parcel Archiver?
>>>  > >>>
>>>  > >>>
>>>  > >>>
>>>  > >>> I am tempted to say that individual parcel backups is not a good
>>>  > >> idea. If
>>>  > >>> one is building on a parcel, as opposed to a full region, then
>>> simply
>>>  > >>> maintaining copies of their items in their inventory should be
>>>  > >> adequate.
>>>  > >>> Parcels come in so many sizes and making a backup would require
>>> the
>>>  > >> new
>>>  > >>> parcel for a restore would have to be identical in dimensions. So
>>>  > >> this
>>>  > >>> can
>>>  > >>> be very complex if you have a parcel that, for example, lies along
>>> a
>>>  > >> road
>>>  > >>> so
>>>  > >>> the side of your parcel is angular. Or if you have an odd-shaped
>>>  > >> parcel
>>>  > >>> or
>>>  > >>> a combination of parcels that are separated by other parcels you
>>> do
>>>  > >> not
>>>  > >>> own.
>>>  > >>>
>>>  > >>> Backing up a region is simple enough given the standard
>>> dimensions,
>>>  > >> even
>>>  > >>> when dealing with megaregions, which are really just a combination
>>> of
>>>  > >>> multiple "regular" regions of standard size.
>>>  > >>>
>>>  > >>> So I feel that backing up personal parcels should remain the
>>> process
>>>  > >> of
>>>  > >>> maintaining items in your personal inventory and making a backup
>>> of
>>>  > >> THAT
>>>  > >>> rather than the parcel area itself.
>>>  > >>>
>>>  > >>> - Len W. Brown
>>>  > >>> [hidden email]
>>>  > >>>
>>>  > >>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 1:16 AM, Karen Palen
>>> <[hidden email]>
>>>  > >>> wrote:
>>>  > >>>
>>>  > >>> Just a thought, but with the economics of OpenSim being totally
>>>  > >> different
>>>  > >>> from Second Life, I wonder if we will end up with hundreds of tiny
>>>  > >> parcels
>>>  > >>> in each region?
>>>  > >>>
>>>  > >>> It seems to me that there are several issues here concerning
>>> changes
>>>  > >> in
>>>  > >>> parcel size/location between backup and restore as well as some
>>>  > >>> ownership/covenant/zoning issues.
>>>  > >>>
>>>  > >>> As I think about the problem I am not sure I (or anyone else) can
>>>  > >> fully
>>>  > >>> articulate even the nature of those issues since they depend
>>> heavily
>>>  > >> on
>>>  > >>> the
>>>  > >>> direction that OpenSim development and implementation takes.
>>>  > >>>
>>>  > >>> Just the same we do need to consider them as best we can lest we
>>> fall
>>>  > >> into
>>>  > >>> some of the same traps as Second Life (content ownership, banking
>>>  > >> debacle,
>>>  > >>> and gambling come to mind).
>>>  > >>>
>>>  > >>> Karen
>>>  > >>>
>>>  > >>> --- On Fri, 11/20/09, Robert Klein <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>  > >>>
>>>  > >>>> From: Robert Klein <[hidden email]>
>>>  > >>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Parcel Archiver?
>>>  > >>>> To: [hidden email]
>>>  > >>>> Date: Friday, November 20, 2009, 6:09 PM
>>>  > >>>>
>>>  > >>>> Hey Justin,
>>>  > >>>>
>>>  > >>>> Yes that is correct, just archive a single parcel on a
>>>  > >>>> region. Whatever is
>>>  > >>>> in the parcel gets put into the PAR file. Can it be done?
>>>  > >>>>
>>>  > >>>> -Robert
>>>  > >>>>
>>>  > >>>> justincc wrote:
>>>  > >>>>> Robert Klein wrote:
>>>  > >>>>>> We have a OAR for regions and a IAR for inventory
>>>  > >>>> but what about a PAR
>>>  > >>>>>> for
>>>  > >>>>>> doing parcel area archiving? It would be an easy
>>>  > >>>> way to dedicate one
>>>  > >>>>>> subdivided parcel area for bringing things in and
>>>  > >>>> out of OpenSims that
>>>  > >>>>>> either use the mega region or just have a single
>>>  > >>>> region that is
>>>  > >>>>>> subdivided.
>>>  > >>>>>> Also the beauty of this would be in the future if
>>>  > >>>> you have renters or
>>>  > >>>>>> event
>>>  > >>>>>> spaces you can keep backups of just those spaces.
>>>  > >>>>> I'm not too sure if I get exactly what you mean.
>>>  > >>>> Are you talking about
>>>  > >>>>> archiving just the contents of a single parcel on a
>>>  > >>>> region?
>>>  > >>>>> --
>>>  > >>>>> justincc
>>>  > >>>>> Justin Clark-Casey
>>>  > >>>>> http://justincc.org
>>>  > >>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>  > >>>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>>  > >>>>> [hidden email]
>>>  > >>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>  > >>>>>
>>>  > >>>>>
>>>  > >>>> --
>>>  > >>>> View this message in context:
>>>  > >>> http://n2.nabble.com/Parcel-Archiver-tp4008165p4040934.html
>>>  > >>>> Sent from the opensim-users mailing list archive at
>>>  > >>>> Nabble.com.
>>>  > >>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>  > >>>>
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>>>  > >>>
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>>>  > >> --
>>>  > >> View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Parcel-Archiver-
>>>  > >> tp4008165p4042739.html
>>>  > >> Sent from the opensim-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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--
Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
http://justincc.org
http://twitter.com/justincc
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Re: Parcel Archiver?

Dr Scofield
In reply to this post by Stefan Andersson-3
On 11/21/2009 09:59 AM, Stefan Andersson wrote:
> One way to go about it could be to make sure the oar is subdivided into
> parcels when storing it; if so, one would probably backup the whole oar,
> but be able to restore only parts of the oar.
>
>  
>
> I have only used oars for full backup, so I don’t know if the parcel
> info is already stored in it?

it is.

        cheers,
        DrS

--
dr dirk husemann ---- virtual worlds research ---- ibm zurich research lab
SL: dr scofield ---- [hidden email] ---- http://xyzzyxyzzy.net/
RL: [hidden email] - +41 44 724 8573 - http://www.zurich.ibm.com/~hud/
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