Privacy in lands

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Privacy in lands

Luisillo Contepomi
What do you think about the privacy in parcels as is in Second Life?
All viewers support this option but dont work by now in OpenSim.
I do not know if it would be very complex to implement, but I think it
would be interesting.
comments?...
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Re: Privacy in lands

Melanie
The opensim culture is not really parcel based. It's easy to lock
down a sim for privacy and all the empty-looking parcels in SL are
just plain ugly.
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Re: Privacy in lands

Shaun T. Erickson
On 3/23/14, 10:29 AM, Melanie wrote:
> The opensim culture is not really parcel based. It's easy to lock
> down a sim for privacy and all the empty-looking parcels in SL are
> just plain ugly.
>
Just because you think it looks ugly, doesn't mean the feature shouldn't
be available. Additionally, "culture" can change on a whim. Also (please
correct me if I'm wrong), while we can prevent people from entering a
region, I don't think we can stop them from camming in and watching
what's going on in it.
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Re: Privacy in lands

Melanie
Well, it's my opinion so I voice it. It's not like I'm vetoing it,
but I'm pointing out the drawback, which is visitors seeing empty
land and banlines everywhere - not very welcoming.

Also, you can't cam into a sim if it has no neighbors.

Melanie

On 23/03/2014 16:14, Shaun T. Erickson wrote:

> On 3/23/14, 10:29 AM, Melanie wrote:
>> The opensim culture is not really parcel based. It's easy to lock
>> down a sim for privacy and all the empty-looking parcels in SL are
>> just plain ugly.
>>
> Just because you think it looks ugly, doesn't mean the feature shouldn't
> be available. Additionally, "culture" can change on a whim. Also (please
> correct me if I'm wrong), while we can prevent people from entering a
> region, I don't think we can stop them from camming in and watching
> what's going on in it.
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>
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Re: Privacy in lands

James Stallings II
I thought it was a mistake in SL and I think it would be an equally mistaken effort for opensim too.

Remember, opensim is not an SL clone.

Thats MY opinion FWIW.

Cheers
James


On Sun, Mar 23, 2014 at 10:28 AM, Melanie <[hidden email]> wrote:
Well, it's my opinion so I voice it. It's not like I'm vetoing it,
but I'm pointing out the drawback, which is visitors seeing empty
land and banlines everywhere - not very welcoming.

Also, you can't cam into a sim if it has no neighbors.

Melanie

On 23/03/2014 16:14, Shaun T. Erickson wrote:
> On 3/23/14, 10:29 AM, Melanie wrote:
>> The opensim culture is not really parcel based. It's easy to lock
>> down a sim for privacy and all the empty-looking parcels in SL are
>> just plain ugly.
>>
> Just because you think it looks ugly, doesn't mean the feature shouldn't
> be available. Additionally, "culture" can change on a whim. Also (please
> correct me if I'm wrong), while we can prevent people from entering a
> region, I don't think we can stop them from camming in and watching
> what's going on in it.
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>
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Re: Privacy in lands

R.Gunther
In reply to this post by Shaun T. Erickson
If you put a sim to private you cant cam in sofar i know, the sim gets
invisible for neighborns
The way sl is doing it is still a big mistake.  Everywhere banlines, its
like a pinball machine when you fly on mainland.
opensim is cheaper, so you can run a whole sim isntead of small parcel.
and a whole sim you can set easy in private mode.

I think the pribate parcel where just a quick (dirty) fix in sl to keep
people happy, it btw works only good if you ue banlines to.

On 2014-03-23 16:14, Shaun T. Erickson wrote:

> On 3/23/14, 10:29 AM, Melanie wrote:
>> The opensim culture is not really parcel based. It's easy to lock
>> down a sim for privacy and all the empty-looking parcels in SL are
>> just plain ugly.
>>
> Just because you think it looks ugly, doesn't mean the feature
> shouldn't be available. Additionally, "culture" can change on a whim.
> Also (please correct me if I'm wrong), while we can prevent people
> from entering a region, I don't think we can stop them from camming in
> and watching what's going on in it.
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>

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Re: Privacy in lands

David P. Giffen-2
In reply to this post by Luisillo Contepomi
I guess it would be of if it was something that can be configured so those
like myself can turn it off. I have always hated ban lines. They are
unsightly and make it annoying to navigate.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Luisillo
Contepomi
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2014 09:20
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Opensim-users] Privacy in lands

What do you think about the privacy in parcels as is in Second Life?
All viewers support this option but dont work by now in OpenSim.
I do not know if it would be very complex to implement, but I think it would
be interesting.
comments?...
_______________________________________________
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Re: Privacy in lands

Shaun T. Erickson
On 3/23/14, 11:59 AM, David P. Giffen wrote:
> I guess it would be of if it was something that can be configured so those
> like myself can turn it off. I have always hated ban lines. They are
> unsightly and make it annoying to navigate.
I certainly agree about ban lines - incredibly ugly.

I would rather someone built a security orb for folks to use, instead of
ban lines.
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Re: Privacy in lands

Melanie
There are two different issues. A security orb is a fine solution -
for a different problem!

Security orbs will keep people out if they try to come in, for
instance to use your furniture. However, an orb can't prevent people
from camming in.

Although I fail to see the allure of horizontal activities in
virtual, it is strong for many. Those many are looking for privacy
and Linden Labs, in an effort not to lose all of the users on the
already defunct, ugly mainland, catered to these desires by allowing
to stop people from camming into a parcel.

However, as I said, this feature makes for a very unwelcoming
experience and in OpenSim it is just as easy to have a sim as it is
to have a parcel, or nearly so.

IMHO, OpenSim doesn't need this "privacy" feature because we don't
need to repeat all of LL's mistakes.

Melanie

On 23/03/2014 19:00, Shaun T. Erickson wrote:

> On 3/23/14, 11:59 AM, David P. Giffen wrote:
>> I guess it would be of if it was something that can be configured so those
>> like myself can turn it off. I have always hated ban lines. They are
>> unsightly and make it annoying to navigate.
> I certainly agree about ban lines - incredibly ugly.
>
> I would rather someone built a security orb for folks to use, instead of
> ban lines.
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>
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Re: Privacy in lands

R.Gunther
Security orbs, that is really the biggest mistake the made in sl.
but maby more because the get used wrong and high in the sky to
and grioeving planes that way because people cannot configure them right.

On 2014-03-23 19:06, Melanie wrote:

> There are two different issues. A security orb is a fine solution -
> for a different problem!
>
> Security orbs will keep people out if they try to come in, for
> instance to use your furniture. However, an orb can't prevent people
> from camming in.
>
> Although I fail to see the allure of horizontal activities in
> virtual, it is strong for many. Those many are looking for privacy
> and Linden Labs, in an effort not to lose all of the users on the
> already defunct, ugly mainland, catered to these desires by allowing
> to stop people from camming into a parcel.
>
> However, as I said, this feature makes for a very unwelcoming
> experience and in OpenSim it is just as easy to have a sim as it is
> to have a parcel, or nearly so.
>
> IMHO, OpenSim doesn't need this "privacy" feature because we don't
> need to repeat all of LL's mistakes.
>
> Melanie
>
> On 23/03/2014 19:00, Shaun T. Erickson wrote:
>> On 3/23/14, 11:59 AM, David P. Giffen wrote:
>>> I guess it would be of if it was something that can be configured so those
>>> like myself can turn it off. I have always hated ban lines. They are
>>> unsightly and make it annoying to navigate.
>> I certainly agree about ban lines - incredibly ugly.
>>
>> I would rather someone built a security orb for folks to use, instead of
>> ban lines.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>

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Re: Privacy in lands

Mike Chase
In reply to this post by Melanie
It's a feature, unwanted or not that the viewers used to connect to OpenSim
support.  If someone wants to do the work to implement the code and its
disable-able I'd think it would be accepted into core.  People then can
enable or disable as they desire.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Melanie
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2014 2:07 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Privacy in lands

There are two different issues. A security orb is a fine solution - for a
different problem!

Security orbs will keep people out if they try to come in, for instance to
use your furniture. However, an orb can't prevent people from camming in.

Although I fail to see the allure of horizontal activities in virtual, it is
strong for many. Those many are looking for privacy and Linden Labs, in an
effort not to lose all of the users on the already defunct, ugly mainland,
catered to these desires by allowing to stop people from camming into a
parcel.

However, as I said, this feature makes for a very unwelcoming experience and
in OpenSim it is just as easy to have a sim as it is to have a parcel, or
nearly so.

IMHO, OpenSim doesn't need this "privacy" feature because we don't need to
repeat all of LL's mistakes.

Melanie

On 23/03/2014 19:00, Shaun T. Erickson wrote:

> On 3/23/14, 11:59 AM, David P. Giffen wrote:
>> I guess it would be of if it was something that can be configured so
>> those like myself can turn it off. I have always hated ban lines.
>> They are unsightly and make it annoying to navigate.
> I certainly agree about ban lines - incredibly ugly.
>
> I would rather someone built a security orb for folks to use, instead
> of ban lines.
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>
_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
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Re: Privacy in lands

Key Gruin
In reply to this post by Luisillo Contepomi
On 03/23/2014 09:20 AM, Luisillo Contepomi wrote:
> What do you think about the privacy in parcels as is in Second Life?
> All viewers support this option but dont work by now in OpenSim.

With Opensimulator, you can isolate your sim as a standalone - or if in
a grid, in a remote  spot on the map. Isn't that enough? Not trying to
be contentious, just curious.

Key
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Re: Privacy in lands

Melanie
In reply to this post by Mike Chase
Yes, it would indeed be accepted. Just it seems none of the usual
subjects are in favor of the option, so none of the usual suspects
will code it. If the person who wants it, codes it, it will be quite
welcome!

Hint: It's _not_ low hanging fruit......

Melanie

On 23/03/2014 20:29, Mike Chase wrote:

> It's a feature, unwanted or not that the viewers used to connect to OpenSim
> support.  If someone wants to do the work to implement the code and its
> disable-able I'd think it would be accepted into core.  People then can
> enable or disable as they desire.
>
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Melanie
> Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2014 2:07 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Privacy in lands
>
> There are two different issues. A security orb is a fine solution - for a
> different problem!
>
> Security orbs will keep people out if they try to come in, for instance to
> use your furniture. However, an orb can't prevent people from camming in.
>
> Although I fail to see the allure of horizontal activities in virtual, it is
> strong for many. Those many are looking for privacy and Linden Labs, in an
> effort not to lose all of the users on the already defunct, ugly mainland,
> catered to these desires by allowing to stop people from camming into a
> parcel.
>
> However, as I said, this feature makes for a very unwelcoming experience and
> in OpenSim it is just as easy to have a sim as it is to have a parcel, or
> nearly so.
>
> IMHO, OpenSim doesn't need this "privacy" feature because we don't need to
> repeat all of LL's mistakes.
>
> Melanie
>
> On 23/03/2014 19:00, Shaun T. Erickson wrote:
>> On 3/23/14, 11:59 AM, David P. Giffen wrote:
>>> I guess it would be of if it was something that can be configured so
>>> those like myself can turn it off. I have always hated ban lines.
>>> They are unsightly and make it annoying to navigate.
>> I certainly agree about ban lines - incredibly ugly.
>>
>> I would rather someone built a security orb for folks to use, instead
>> of ban lines.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>
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Re: Privacy in lands

Fleep Tuque
In reply to this post by Luisillo Contepomi
If you mean the banlines, I always disallowed them in any land I managed in Second Life because they are ugly and not at all user friendly.  Half the mainland in Second Life used to be marred with those hideous red lines, I'd be very sad to see them in OpenSim.  

Considering land in most OpenSim grids is free or pretty cheap, I dunno why you'd want to cut up parcels like that instead of just using private regions?  Last time I checked, a region that is not set to public access isn't visible on the map or in the viewer to anyone who doesn't have access.  The banlines never prevented anyone from camming in anyway, all they did was annoy everyone trying to get around.

I suppose as others mentioned, if someone wants to write and contribute the code, I couldn't object, but only so long as it could be disabled, because I surely won't want it on any grid I manage.  I doubt I'd want to visit any grid that uses them either because there's nothing more aggravating than trying to fly from Point A to Point B and bouncing like a ping pong ball from banline to banline.
 
We hatess them.  :P


- Chris/Fleep



On Sun, Mar 23, 2014 at 10:20 AM, Luisillo Contepomi <[hidden email]> wrote:
What do you think about the privacy in parcels as is in Second Life?
All viewers support this option but dont work by now in OpenSim.
I do not know if it would be very complex to implement, but I think it
would be interesting.
comments?...
_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


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Re: Privacy in lands

James Stallings II

Hi Fleep,

AFAIK Ban lines are available and functional in OpenSim; however, I've rarely seen them used for all the reasons you cite ;)

As I've been heard to say in the past, the region is the new parcel.

Cheers!
James

On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 7:41 AM, Fleep Tuque <[hidden email]> wrote:
If you mean the banlines, I always disallowed them in any land I managed in Second Life because they are ugly and not at all user friendly.  Half the mainland in Second Life used to be marred with those hideous red lines, I'd be very sad to see them in OpenSim.  

Considering land in most OpenSim grids is free or pretty cheap, I dunno why you'd want to cut up parcels like that instead of just using private regions?  Last time I checked, a region that is not set to public access isn't visible on the map or in the viewer to anyone who doesn't have access.  The banlines never prevented anyone from camming in anyway, all they did was annoy everyone trying to get around.

I suppose as others mentioned, if someone wants to write and contribute the code, I couldn't object, but only so long as it could be disabled, because I surely won't want it on any grid I manage.  I doubt I'd want to visit any grid that uses them either because there's nothing more aggravating than trying to fly from Point A to Point B and bouncing like a ping pong ball from banline to banline.
 
We hatess them.  :P


- Chris/Fleep



On Sun, Mar 23, 2014 at 10:20 AM, Luisillo Contepomi <[hidden email]> wrote:
What do you think about the privacy in parcels as is in Second Life?
All viewers support this option but dont work by now in OpenSim.
I do not know if it would be very complex to implement, but I think it
would be interesting.
comments?...
_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



--

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Re: Privacy in lands

Luisillo Contepomi
Thank you for your comments.

For those who say that the alternative are ban lines or isolation of
the region I think that
having an option does not force you to use it. Now we have not this option.

Assume the following environment: Sim divided into plots for rent.
Maybe the neighbors want to use this option. may not want to be in
their chicken with a neighbor in chat range...only may be.
:-)

I understand that the community,by now,  is not in favor of using all
the capabilities of the viewers because then "is as SL".
 I think is a error  I think we must aspire to be even better

Regards,
Luisillo

2014-03-24 13:56 GMT+01:00 James Stallings II <[hidden email]>:

>
> Hi Fleep,
>
> AFAIK Ban lines are available and functional in OpenSim; however, I've
> rarely seen them used for all the reasons you cite ;)
>
> As I've been heard to say in the past, the region is the new parcel.
>
> Cheers!
> James
>
> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 7:41 AM, Fleep Tuque <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> If you mean the banlines, I always disallowed them in any land I managed
>> in Second Life because they are ugly and not at all user friendly.  Half the
>> mainland in Second Life used to be marred with those hideous red lines, I'd
>> be very sad to see them in OpenSim.
>>
>> Considering land in most OpenSim grids is free or pretty cheap, I dunno
>> why you'd want to cut up parcels like that instead of just using private
>> regions?  Last time I checked, a region that is not set to public access
>> isn't visible on the map or in the viewer to anyone who doesn't have access.
>> The banlines never prevented anyone from camming in anyway, all they did was
>> annoy everyone trying to get around.
>>
>> I suppose as others mentioned, if someone wants to write and contribute
>> the code, I couldn't object, but only so long as it could be disabled,
>> because I surely won't want it on any grid I manage.  I doubt I'd want to
>> visit any grid that uses them either because there's nothing more
>> aggravating than trying to fly from Point A to Point B and bouncing like a
>> ping pong ball from banline to banline.
>>
>> We hatess them.  :P
>>
>>
>> - Chris/Fleep
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 23, 2014 at 10:20 AM, Luisillo Contepomi
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> What do you think about the privacy in parcels as is in Second Life?
>>> All viewers support this option but dont work by now in OpenSim.
>>> I do not know if it would be very complex to implement, but I think it
>>> would be interesting.
>>> comments?...
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>
>
>
> --
> ===================================
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> http://simhost.com
> http://twitter.com/jstallings2
>
>
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Re: Privacy in lands

James Stallings II

A core dev has said a patch would be welcome should anyone be motivated to do it. No further debate required.

On Mar 25, 2014 1:21 PM, "Luisillo Contepomi" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thank you for your comments.

For those who say that the alternative are ban lines or isolation of
the region I think that
having an option does not force you to use it. Now we have not this option.

Assume the following environment: Sim divided into plots for rent.
Maybe the neighbors want to use this option. may not want to be in
their chicken with a neighbor in chat range...only may be.
:-)

I understand that the community,by now,  is not in favor of using all
the capabilities of the viewers because then "is as SL".
 I think is a error  I think we must aspire to be even better

Regards,
Luisillo

2014-03-24 13:56 GMT+01:00 James Stallings II <[hidden email]>:
>
> Hi Fleep,
>
> AFAIK Ban lines are available and functional in OpenSim; however, I've
> rarely seen them used for all the reasons you cite ;)
>
> As I've been heard to say in the past, the region is the new parcel.
>
> Cheers!
> James
>
> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 7:41 AM, Fleep Tuque <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> If you mean the banlines, I always disallowed them in any land I managed
>> in Second Life because they are ugly and not at all user friendly.  Half the
>> mainland in Second Life used to be marred with those hideous red lines, I'd
>> be very sad to see them in OpenSim.
>>
>> Considering land in most OpenSim grids is free or pretty cheap, I dunno
>> why you'd want to cut up parcels like that instead of just using private
>> regions?  Last time I checked, a region that is not set to public access
>> isn't visible on the map or in the viewer to anyone who doesn't have access.
>> The banlines never prevented anyone from camming in anyway, all they did was
>> annoy everyone trying to get around.
>>
>> I suppose as others mentioned, if someone wants to write and contribute
>> the code, I couldn't object, but only so long as it could be disabled,
>> because I surely won't want it on any grid I manage.  I doubt I'd want to
>> visit any grid that uses them either because there's nothing more
>> aggravating than trying to fly from Point A to Point B and bouncing like a
>> ping pong ball from banline to banline.
>>
>> We hatess them.  :P
>>
>>
>> - Chris/Fleep
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 23, 2014 at 10:20 AM, Luisillo Contepomi
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> What do you think about the privacy in parcels as is in Second Life?
>>> All viewers support this option but dont work by now in OpenSim.
>>> I do not know if it would be very complex to implement, but I think it
>>> would be interesting.
>>> comments?...
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
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>>
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