Question about IAR files

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Question about IAR files

John Patten-3
Hello All...

I just started at looking at OpenSim and managed to get the "Diva" distribution installed in Sun/Oracle's VirtualBox running under Unbuntu. I'm evaluating it as part of  programs we might like to use it with for our K8 students. It was pretty easy to get started, and with the ability to export the VirtualBox as an "appliance/image" it would be easy to create and and share an OpenSim environment in "appliance format,"  lesson plans, avatars,  beginning inventories, etc. etc.  by just sharing the VirtualBox applicance on DVD.   ...Everything preconfigured and ready to go. I actually tested this out with my son (9th grader) and he was able to pick it up pretty quick.

Here's my question. If I have multiple people developing the content for a "pre-packaged" OpenSim curriculum, what is the easiest way to collect these assets, centralize them, and then load them up into and target sim for sharing?


-I have looked at the SecondInventory product. It looks like a possible solution, but not sure if it would work with multiple students and teachers saving to a common repository?

-I also looked at the short section on IAR files. This appears to be a good way to archive and save out individual build items, houses, furniture, etc. etc. I was thinking this would be better than SecondInventory, however I must not be using it correctly. Here's what I did:
1. Downloaded the sample iar file from the OpenSim site. (my-great-items.iar)
2. Moved the iar sample into the documents folder on my server
3. Used the following command:  load iar Dr. Klink Documents/my-great-items.iar IAR-Additions/ mySuperSecretPassword

This is what I get:

[Inventory Archiver]: PLEASE NOT THAT THIS FACILITY IS EXPERIMENTAL. BUG REPORTS WELCOME.
[Inventory Archiver]: Loading archive mySyoerSecretPassword to inventory path Documents/my-great-items.iar for Dr. Klink
[Inventory Archiver]: Password for user Dr. Klink incorrect. Please try again.

The second line seems a little strange. Is it supposed to report back the avatar password there?

Also, if there is a better way to save build assets off the OpenSim, I'd be much appreciative!

Thank you!

John Patten
Director of Tech and IS
Sylvan Union SD

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Re: Question about IAR files

John Patten-3
Just following up...

IAR appears to work as advertised :-)


I had stored the sample my-great-items.iar in a poor location...moved  
it to the "bin" directory in the Diva installation, and it uploaded  
correctly.  Still interested if others have better ways to save assets  
off development sims, but it seems being able to save items in IAR  
files could be the solution :-)

Thank you!

John Patten
Dir of Tec
Sylvan Union SD



On Feb 22, 2010, at 12:48 PM, John Patten wrote:

> Hello All...
>
> I just started at looking at OpenSim and managed to get the "Diva"  
> distribution installed in Sun/Oracle's VirtualBox running under  
> Unbuntu. I'm evaluating it as part of  programs we might like to use  
> it with for our K8 students. It was pretty easy to get started, and  
> with the ability to export the VirtualBox as an "appliance/image" it  
> would be easy to create and and share an OpenSim environment in  
> "appliance format,"  lesson plans, avatars,  beginning inventories,  
> etc. etc.  by just sharing the VirtualBox applicance on  
> DVD.   ...Everything preconfigured and ready to go. I actually  
> tested this out with my son (9th grader) and he was able to pick it  
> up pretty quick.
>
> Here's my question. If I have multiple people developing the content  
> for a "pre-packaged" OpenSim curriculum, what is the easiest way to  
> collect these assets, centralize them, and then load them up into  
> and target sim for sharing?
>
>
> -I have looked at the SecondInventory product. It looks like a  
> possible solution, but not sure if it would work with multiple  
> students and teachers saving to a common repository?
>
> -I also looked at the short section on IAR files. This appears to be  
> a good way to archive and save out individual build items, houses,  
> furniture, etc. etc. I was thinking this would be better than  
> SecondInventory, however I must not be using it correctly. Here's  
> what I did:
> 1. Downloaded the sample iar file from the OpenSim site. (my-great-
> items.iar)
> 2. Moved the iar sample into the documents folder on my server
> 3. Used the following command:  load iar Dr. Klink Documents/my-
> great-items.iar IAR-Additions/ mySuperSecretPassword
>
> This is what I get:
>
> [Inventory Archiver]: PLEASE NOT THAT THIS FACILITY IS EXPERIMENTAL.  
> BUG REPORTS WELCOME.
> [Inventory Archiver]: Loading archive mySyoerSecretPassword to  
> inventory path Documents/my-great-items.iar for Dr. Klink
> [Inventory Archiver]: Password for user Dr. Klink incorrect. Please  
> try again.
>
> The second line seems a little strange. Is it supposed to report  
> back the avatar password there?
>
> Also, if there is a better way to save build assets off the OpenSim,  
> I'd be much appreciative!
>
> Thank you!
>
> John Patten
> Director of Tech and IS
> Sylvan Union SD

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Re: Question about IAR files

justincc
GMail-johnpat10 wrote:

> Just following up...
>
> IAR appears to work as advertised :-)
>
>
> I had stored the sample my-great-items.iar in a poor location...moved  
> it to the "bin" directory in the Diva installation, and it uploaded  
> correctly.  Still interested if others have better ways to save assets  
> off development sims, but it seems being able to save items in IAR  
> files could be the solution :-)

Loading the IAR via "load iar" should have worked as well - I would suggest that you double check your password details first :)

IARs are one solution for this kind of data storage and they should remain compatible with future versions of OpenSim.  They have the advantage of probably being somewhat more reliable and quicker than solutions such as Second Inventory because they directly interface with the server rather than sucking/blowing through the client interface, which isn't built for that kind of thing.  

Of course, this also gives them the disadvantage of only working if you have region console access (though in principle somebody could put an interface on which allows non-region owners to load and save).

As well as second inventory, I know that some of the other SL clients (e.g. Imprudence, Meerkat) have inventory suck and blow built in and store data using a different file format.  I'm not sure what the current state of play is there - last time I looked the contents of items themselves were not being saved/restored.

>
> Thank you!
>
> John Patten
> Dir of Tec
> Sylvan Union SD
>
>
>
> On Feb 22, 2010, at 12:48 PM, John Patten wrote:
>
>> Hello All...
>>
>> I just started at looking at OpenSim and managed to get the "Diva"  
>> distribution installed in Sun/Oracle's VirtualBox running under  
>> Unbuntu. I'm evaluating it as part of  programs we might like to use  
>> it with for our K8 students. It was pretty easy to get started, and  
>> with the ability to export the VirtualBox as an "appliance/image" it  
>> would be easy to create and and share an OpenSim environment in  
>> "appliance format,"  lesson plans, avatars,  beginning inventories,  
>> etc. etc.  by just sharing the VirtualBox applicance on  
>> DVD.   ...Everything preconfigured and ready to go. I actually  
>> tested this out with my son (9th grader) and he was able to pick it  
>> up pretty quick.
>>
>> Here's my question. If I have multiple people developing the content  
>> for a "pre-packaged" OpenSim curriculum, what is the easiest way to  
>> collect these assets, centralize them, and then load them up into  
>> and target sim for sharing?
>>
>>
>> -I have looked at the SecondInventory product. It looks like a  
>> possible solution, but not sure if it would work with multiple  
>> students and teachers saving to a common repository?
>>
>> -I also looked at the short section on IAR files. This appears to be  
>> a good way to archive and save out individual build items, houses,  
>> furniture, etc. etc. I was thinking this would be better than  
>> SecondInventory, however I must not be using it correctly. Here's  
>> what I did:
>> 1. Downloaded the sample iar file from the OpenSim site. (my-great-
>> items.iar)
>> 2. Moved the iar sample into the documents folder on my server
>> 3. Used the following command:  load iar Dr. Klink Documents/my-
>> great-items.iar IAR-Additions/ mySuperSecretPassword
>>
>> This is what I get:
>>
>> [Inventory Archiver]: PLEASE NOT THAT THIS FACILITY IS EXPERIMENTAL.  
>> BUG REPORTS WELCOME.
>> [Inventory Archiver]: Loading archive mySyoerSecretPassword to  
>> inventory path Documents/my-great-items.iar for Dr. Klink
>> [Inventory Archiver]: Password for user Dr. Klink incorrect. Please  
>> try again.
>>
>> The second line seems a little strange. Is it supposed to report  
>> back the avatar password there?
>>
>> Also, if there is a better way to save build assets off the OpenSim,  
>> I'd be much appreciative!
>>
>> Thank you!
>>
>> John Patten
>> Director of Tech and IS
>> Sylvan Union SD
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>


--
Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
http://justincc.org
http://twitter.com/justincc
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Re: Question about IAR files

Karen_Palen
You are correct that Second Inventory attempts to suck/blow (love the analogy!) through the user interface, as well as Meerkat and Emerald viewer.

There are at least a couple of "backup" tools that do attempt to save contents this way - NielLife viewer being the most popular right now, even if it is often used as an SL to SL piracy tool.

There is a lot of demand for something that works properly loading and saving OpenSim inventory though. A piracy tool need not bother about frequent errors and minor "fixes", but a legitimate backup or transfer tool needs to be virtually error free to be useful.

Neither Second Inventory nor Neillife handle the OpenSim interface very well at present - I suspect that this is the reason.

The Niellife internal format is already XML so it should need only minor changes to generate a true IAR file.

The SI "local drive" files are encrypted so there is no way to know.

I will post a copy of this to both blogs to see if maybe at least ONE of them will produce a workable backup/transfer tool for OpenSim!

Karen

--- On Mon, 2/22/10, Justin Clark-Casey <[hidden email]> wrote:
 

> Loading the IAR via "load iar" should have worked as well -
> I would suggest that you double check your password details
> first :)
>
> IARs are one solution for this kind of data storage and
> they should remain compatible with future versions of
> OpenSim.  They have the advantage of probably being
> somewhat more reliable and quicker than solutions such as
> Second Inventory because they directly interface with the
> server rather than sucking/blowing through the client
> interface, which isn't built for that kind of thing. 
>
> Of course, this also gives them the disadvantage of only
> working if you have region console access (though in
> principle somebody could put an interface on which allows
> non-region owners to load and save).
>
> As well as second inventory, I know that some of the other
> SL clients (e.g. Imprudence, Meerkat) have inventory suck
> and blow built in and store data using a different file
> format.  I'm not sure what the current state of play is
> there - last time I looked the contents of items themselves
> were not being saved/restored.



     
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Re: Question about IAR files

Karen_Palen
In reply to this post by John Patten-3
Sad to say Second Inventory is not yet a viable backup tool either for Second Life or OpenSim!

The error rate is too high to be useful for backup, and the restore so far must be done on an item by item basis!

There are quite a few entries in the SI blog concerning this issue:

http://www.secondinventory.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=423

Karen

--- On Mon, 2/22/10, John Patten <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: John Patten <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Opensim-users] Question about IAR files
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Monday, February 22, 2010, 1:48 PM
> Hello All...
>
> I just started at looking at OpenSim and managed to get the
> "Diva" distribution installed in Sun/Oracle's
> VirtualBox running under Unbuntu. I'm evaluating it as
> part of  programs we might like to use it with for our K8
> students. It was pretty easy to get started, and with the
> ability to export the VirtualBox as an
> "appliance/image" it would be easy to create and
> and share an OpenSim environment in "appliance
> format,"  lesson plans, avatars,  beginning
> inventories, etc. etc.  by just sharing the VirtualBox
> applicance on DVD.   ...Everything preconfigured and ready
> to go. I actually tested this out with my son (9th grader)
> and he was able to pick it up pretty quick.
>
>
> Here's my question. If I have multiple people
> developing the content for a "pre-packaged"
> OpenSim curriculum, what is the easiest way to collect these
> assets, centralize them, and then load them up into and
> target sim for sharing?
>
>
>
> -I have looked at the SecondInventory product. It looks
> like a possible solution, but not sure if it would work with
> multiple students and teachers saving to a common
> repository?
>
> -I also looked at the short section on IAR files. This
> appears to be a good way to archive and save out individual
> build items, houses, furniture, etc. etc. I was thinking
> this would be better than SecondInventory, however I must
> not be using it correctly. Here's what I did:
>
> 1. Downloaded the sample iar file from the OpenSim site.
> (my-great-items.iar)
> 2. Moved the iar sample into the documents folder on my
> server
> 3. Used the following command:  load iar Dr. Klink
> Documents/my-great-items.iar IAR-Additions/
> mySuperSecretPassword
>
>
> This is what I get:
>
> [Inventory Archiver]: PLEASE NOT THAT THIS FACILITY IS
> EXPERIMENTAL. BUG REPORTS WELCOME.
> [Inventory Archiver]: Loading archive mySyoerSecretPassword
> to inventory path Documents/my-great-items.iar for Dr.
> Klink
>
> [Inventory Archiver]: Password for user Dr. Klink
> incorrect. Please try again.
>
> The second line seems a little strange. Is it supposed to
> report back the avatar password there?
>
> Also, if there is a better way to save build assets off the
> OpenSim, I'd be much appreciative!
>
>
> Thank you!
>
> John Patten
> Director of Tech and IS
> Sylvan Union SD
>
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>


     
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Re: Question about IAR files

Len W. Brown
In reply to this post by justincc
On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Justin Clark-Casey <[hidden email]> wrote:

As well as second inventory, I know that some of the other SL clients (e.g. Imprudence, Meerkat) have inventory suck and blow built in and store data using a different file format.  I'm not sure what the current state of play is there - last time I looked the contents of items themselves were not being saved/restored.


I'd like to add here my own personal experience with one of the "banned" viewers - CryoGen.  Since obtaining a copy of it some time back I've spent a tremendous amount of time using it on my own personal OpenSim servers and have grown rather addicted to it.  However, the use of it in Second Life results in immediate "not open for discussion" banning and account cancellation so I am very cautious not to use it to log into my SL account.

And, of course, the obvious - that the viewer's intention is to replicate anything and everything in sight, without any regard for who owns what.  It simply ignores all rights and permissions.

So why do I think it's better than sliced bread now?  Because I have been able to save thousands of items I've built over the years in Second Life and each item is saved as a simple text file - an XML file, to be exact.  Properly named and stored, I have my entire archive of furniture, buildings, you name it - all saved neatly as little text files.  Even better...  Uncompressed they total 1.54 Gig, but when I 7-Zipped them, the final archive was 5.67 Megs.  I kid you not.  I was then able to upload my entire prim-based Second Life inventory as a small attachment to an email, and have put a few other copies here and there on thumb drives, in my Google Docs storage not that it allows me to upload any file, etc.

You might be wondering how I managed to backup my Second Life inventory using it without logging into Second Life.  Well, that is the main reason it is so damned terrifying.  Logging into Second Life using a free account and the CryoGen browser, and using my premium account to temporarily block the use of scripts on my land (which can be used to detect and auto-ban users logged in with CryoGen) I used the free account and CryoGen to walk through my various stores and replicate everything in sight.

While I do not whatsoever condone stealing in any form, it's an interesting conundrum for me to have to use "illegal" software to steal MY OWN products, but as you said about Second Inventory being less than par, CryoGen does a phenomenal job of allowing me to copy perfectly replicated items from my shops in SL to my sandbox in OpenSim.

--
- Len W. Brown
  [hidden email]

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Re: Question about IAR files

Karen_Palen
One of my (many) laments about this situation is that if usable tools with reasonable restrictions are not available for these legitimate uses then "pirate" oriented tools will be developed and used instead!

Karen

--- On Mon, 2/22/10, Len Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Len Brown <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Question about IAR files
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Monday, February 22, 2010, 9:30 PM
> On Mon, Feb 22,
> 2010 at 4:32 PM, Justin Clark-Casey <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> As well as second inventory, I know that some of the other
> SL clients (e.g. Imprudence, Meerkat) have inventory suck
> and blow built in and store data using a different file
> format.  I'm not sure what the current state of play is
> there - last time I looked the contents of items themselves
> were not being saved/restored.
>
>
>
>
> I'd like to
> add here my own personal experience with one of the
> "banned" viewers - CryoGen.  Since obtaining a
> copy of it some time
> back I've spent a tremendous amount of time using it on
> my own personal
> OpenSim servers and have grown rather addicted to it. 
> However, the use
> of it in Second Life results in immediate "not open
> for discussion"
> banning and account cancellation so I am very cautious not
> to use it to
> log into my SL account.
>
>
>
> And, of course, the obvious - that the viewer's
> intention is to
> replicate anything and everything in sight, without any
> regard for who
> owns what.  It simply ignores all rights and permissions.
>
>
>
> So why do I think it's better than sliced bread now? 
> Because I have
> been able to save thousands of items I've built over
> the years in
> Second Life and each item is saved as a simple text file -
> an XML file,
> to be exact.  Properly named and stored, I have my entire
> archive of
> furniture, buildings, you name it - all saved neatly as
> little text
> files.  Even better...  Uncompressed they total 1.54
> Gig, but when I 7-Zipped them, the final archive was
> 5.67 Megs. 
> I kid you not.  I was then able to upload my entire
> prim-based Second
> Life inventory as a small attachment to an email, and have
> put a few
> other copies here and there on thumb drives, in my Google
> Docs storage
> not that it allows me to upload any file, etc.
>
> You might be wondering how I managed to backup my Second
> Life inventory using it without logging into Second Life. 
> Well, that is the main reason it is so damned terrifying. 
> Logging into Second Life using a free account and the
> CryoGen browser, and using my premium account to temporarily
> block the use of scripts on my land (which can be used to
> detect and auto-ban users logged in with CryoGen) I used the
> free account and CryoGen to walk through my various stores
> and replicate everything in sight.
>
>
> While I do not whatsoever condone stealing in any form,
> it's an interesting conundrum for me to have to use
> "illegal" software to steal MY OWN products, but
> as you said about Second Inventory being less than par,
> CryoGen does a phenomenal job of allowing me to copy
> perfectly replicated items from my shops in SL to my sandbox
> in OpenSim.
>
>
> --
> - Len W. Brown
>    [hidden email]
>
>
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>


     
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Re: Question about IAR files

Len W. Brown
As others have mentioned, there are still a few disadvantages, even with hacked viewers such as CryoGen.  For example, scripts and any content contained within an object are not saved.  This is not a huge issue with me as the bulk of my objects are either scriptless, or else contain only a few basic scripts in repetition such as door open/close scripts, basic avatar sit scripts and a radio script here and there for some of my music-oriented objects.

I must also say I'm very old-school, preferring to build using the fundamental prim-based tools.  Many pieces of my furniture are very intricately detailed, but they are also built using an unbelievable number of prims.  With the desire for fewer prims and more detail, many designers these days use sculpts, or "sculpties".  Since the core design of a sculptie is a prim that uses a sculpt map, which in essence is just a bitmap image, then tools like CryoGen are "almost" completely worthless.

What one must do in this case is separately "rip" the textures - which include the sculpt maps, and then import those into OpenSim alongside the XML files CryoGen creates.  Otherwise, the CryoGen-copied sculpties will essentially rematerialize in OpenSim is a mass of non-descript "bubbles" or sculpt-prims with missing sculpt-map textures that would normally tell them what shape to take on.

Also, along the same lines, CryoGen itself simply replicates prim-coordinates of items and attachments, but not all the textures involves.  So when the import into OpenSim is made, the object usually is textureless.  However, CryoGen does also record how a texture is oriented, repeated, etc on all the surfaces of each prim in a prim-set.  So manually restoring textures is generally fairly simply and when the texture is re-applied to the proper surfaces, it's alsoready oriented as it had been originally.

The reason I'm giving all this detail is that maybe, someone with more understanding of the hacked viewer source code than I might be willing to undertake and aspire to overcome the few minor limitations presented here and see about making a true, genuine, and legitimate backup tool that we can all use without getting banned for simply trying to preserve our own hard work.

- Len

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 2:31 AM, Karen Palen <[hidden email]> wrote:
One of my (many) laments about this situation is that if usable tools with reasonable restrictions are not available for these legitimate uses then "pirate" oriented tools will be developed and used instead!

Karen

--- On Mon, 2/22/10, Len Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Len Brown <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Question about IAR files
> Date: Monday, February 22, 2010, 9:30 PM
> On Mon, Feb 22,
> 2010 at 4:32 PM, Justin Clark-Casey <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> As well as second inventory, I know that some of the other
> SL clients (e.g. Imprudence, Meerkat) have inventory suck
> and blow built in and store data using a different file
> format.  I'm not sure what the current state of play is
> there - last time I looked the contents of items themselves
> were not being saved/restored.
>
>
>
>
> I'd like to
> add here my own personal experience with one of the
> "banned" viewers - CryoGen.  Since obtaining a
> copy of it some time
> back I've spent a tremendous amount of time using it on
> my own personal
> OpenSim servers and have grown rather addicted to it. 
> However, the use
> of it in Second Life results in immediate "not open
> for discussion"
> banning and account cancellation so I am very cautious not
> to use it to
> log into my SL account.
>
>
>
> And, of course, the obvious - that the viewer's
> intention is to
> replicate anything and everything in sight, without any
> regard for who
> owns what.  It simply ignores all rights and permissions.
>
>
>
> So why do I think it's better than sliced bread now? 
> Because I have
> been able to save thousands of items I've built over
> the years in
> Second Life and each item is saved as a simple text file -
> an XML file,
> to be exact.  Properly named and stored, I have my entire
> archive of
> furniture, buildings, you name it - all saved neatly as
> little text
> files.  Even better...  Uncompressed they total 1.54
> Gig, but when I 7-Zipped them, the final archive was
> 5.67 Megs. 
> I kid you not.  I was then able to upload my entire
> prim-based Second
> Life inventory as a small attachment to an email, and have
> put a few
> other copies here and there on thumb drives, in my Google
> Docs storage
> not that it allows me to upload any file, etc.
>
> You might be wondering how I managed to backup my Second
> Life inventory using it without logging into Second Life. 
> Well, that is the main reason it is so damned terrifying. 
> Logging into Second Life using a free account and the
> CryoGen browser, and using my premium account to temporarily
> block the use of scripts on my land (which can be used to
> detect and auto-ban users logged in with CryoGen) I used the
> free account and CryoGen to walk through my various stores
> and replicate everything in sight.
>
>
> While I do not whatsoever condone stealing in any form,
> it's an interesting conundrum for me to have to use
> "illegal" software to steal MY OWN products, but
> as you said about Second Inventory being less than par,
> CryoGen does a phenomenal job of allowing me to copy
> perfectly replicated items from my shops in SL to my sandbox
> in OpenSim.
>
>
> --
> - Len W. Brown
>    [hidden email]
>
>
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>



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Re: Question about IAR files

Karen_Palen
Actually most fo these limitations are overcome except that no one viewer/tool does it all!

Meerkat does not copy contents, but does a great job on textures including sculpties!

Niellife does a great job on animations, but only copies textures into the viewer so they are lost once you logout!

Second Inventory copies contents, and can even make an XML file with a complete inventory. Inventory must be restored item by item and the error rate can be excessive though. SI has the nasty habit of arbitrarily deciding that something is permissions restricted and refusing to copy it even when it is something that you create as full perms.

Second Life doesn't help this any when the default is to create things with restricted perms even though the SL viewer now allows you to specify the default permission set! In order to create something that is really "full perm" it seems that you must do a special pass with a viewer that explicitly adjusts the perms of all of the contents! A minor step, but an annoying one.

These restrictions and limitations are all reasonable workarounds if you are simply stealing something, but are a huge burden if you just want to transfer your own inventory back and forth between OepnSim and SecondLife!

Karen

--- On Tue, 2/23/10, Len Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Len Brown <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Question about IAR files
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Tuesday, February 23, 2010, 7:04 AM
> As others have mentioned, there are still a
> few disadvantages, even with hacked viewers such as
> CryoGen.  For example, scripts and any content contained
> within an object are not saved.  This is not a huge issue
> with me as the bulk of my objects are either scriptless, or
> else contain only a few basic scripts in repetition such as
> door open/close scripts, basic avatar sit scripts and a
> radio script here and there for some of my music-oriented
> objects.
>
>
> I must also say I'm very old-school, preferring to
> build using the fundamental prim-based tools.  Many pieces
> of my furniture are very intricately detailed, but they are
> also built using an unbelievable number of prims.  With the
> desire for fewer prims and more detail, many designers these
> days use sculpts, or "sculpties".  Since the core
> design of a sculptie is a prim that uses a sculpt map, which
> in essence is just a bitmap image, then tools like CryoGen
> are "almost" completely worthless.
>
>
> What one must do in this case is separately "rip"
> the textures - which include the sculpt maps, and then
> import those into OpenSim alongside the XML files CryoGen
> creates.  Otherwise, the CryoGen-copied sculpties will
> essentially rematerialize in OpenSim is a mass of
> non-descript "bubbles" or sculpt-prims with
> missing sculpt-map textures that would normally tell them
> what shape to take on.
>
>
> Also, along the same lines, CryoGen itself simply
> replicates prim-coordinates of items and attachments, but
> not all the textures involves.  So when the import into
> OpenSim is made, the object usually is textureless. 
> However, CryoGen does also record how a texture is oriented,
> repeated, etc on all the surfaces of each prim in a
> prim-set.  So manually restoring textures is generally
> fairly simply and when the texture is re-applied to the
> proper surfaces, it's alsoready oriented as it had been
> originally.
>
>
> The reason I'm giving all this detail is that maybe,
> someone with more understanding of the hacked viewer source
> code than I might be willing to undertake and aspire to
> overcome the few minor limitations presented here and see
> about making a true, genuine, and legitimate backup tool
> that we can all use without getting banned for simply trying
> to preserve our own hard work.
>
>
> - Len
>
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 2:31 AM,
> Karen Palen <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> One of my (many) laments about this situation is that if
> usable tools with reasonable restrictions are not available
> for these legitimate uses then "pirate" oriented
> tools will be developed and used instead!
>
>
>
>
> Karen
>
>
>
> --- On Mon, 2/22/10, Len Brown <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > From: Len Brown <[hidden email]>
>
> > Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Question about IAR files
>
> > To: [hidden email]
>
> > Date: Monday, February 22, 2010, 9:30 PM
>
> > On Mon, Feb 22,
>
> > 2010 at 4:32 PM, Justin Clark-Casey <[hidden email]>
>
> > wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > As well as second inventory, I know that some of the
> other
>
> > SL clients (e.g. Imprudence, Meerkat) have inventory
> suck
>
> > and blow built in and store data using a different
> file
>
> > format.  I'm not sure what the current state of
> play is
>
> > there - last time I looked the contents of items
> themselves
>
> > were not being saved/restored.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I'd like to
>
> > add here my own personal experience with one of the
>
> > "banned" viewers - CryoGen.  Since
> obtaining a
>
> > copy of it some time
>
> > back I've spent a tremendous amount of time using
> it on
>
> > my own personal
>
> > OpenSim servers and have grown rather addicted to
> it. 
>
> > However, the use
>
> > of it in Second Life results in immediate "not
> open
>
> > for discussion"
>
> > banning and account cancellation so I am very cautious
> not
>
> > to use it to
>
> > log into my SL account.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > And, of course, the obvious - that the viewer's
>
> > intention is to
>
> > replicate anything and everything in sight, without
> any
>
> > regard for who
>
> > owns what.  It simply ignores all rights and
> permissions.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > So why do I think it's better than sliced bread
> now? 
>
> > Because I have
>
> > been able to save thousands of items I've built
> over
>
> > the years in
>
> > Second Life and each item is saved as a simple text
> file -
>
> > an XML file,
>
> > to be exact.  Properly named and stored, I have my
> entire
>
> > archive of
>
> > furniture, buildings, you name it - all saved neatly
> as
>
> > little text
>
> > files.  Even better...  Uncompressed they total
> 1.54
>
> > Gig, but when I 7-Zipped them, the final archive was
>
> > 5.67 Megs. 
>
> > I kid you not.  I was then able to upload my entire
>
> > prim-based Second
>
> > Life inventory as a small attachment to an email, and
> have
>
> > put a few
>
> > other copies here and there on thumb drives, in my
> Google
>
> > Docs storage
>
> > not that it allows me to upload any file, etc.
>
> >
>
> > You might be wondering how I managed to backup my
> Second
>
> > Life inventory using it without logging into Second
> Life. 
>
> > Well, that is the main reason it is so damned
> terrifying. 
>
> > Logging into Second Life using a free account and the
>
> > CryoGen browser, and using my premium account to
> temporarily
>
> > block the use of scripts on my land (which can be used
> to
>
> > detect and auto-ban users logged in with CryoGen) I
> used the
>
> > free account and CryoGen to walk through my various
> stores
>
> > and replicate everything in sight.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > While I do not whatsoever condone stealing in any
> form,
>
> > it's an interesting conundrum for me to have to
> use
>
> > "illegal" software to steal MY OWN products,
> but
>
> > as you said about Second Inventory being less than
> par,
>
> > CryoGen does a phenomenal job of allowing me to copy
>
> > perfectly replicated items from my shops in SL to my
> sandbox
>
> > in OpenSim.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --
>
> > - Len W. Brown
>
> >    [hidden email]
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > Opensim-users mailing list
>
> > [hidden email]
>
> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Opensim-users mailing list
>
> [hidden email]
>
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>


     
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Re: Question about IAR files

M.E. Verhagen
I am happy with the save tools of opensim. It enables me to build cool things with a real time pressure.
Cause it is easy to back up all created on the sims and in my inventory on the serverside.

Somehow I do not feel the need to copy over tons of things from sl and back.

However I find the idea that someone who logs in with a pirate viewer and also can copy all the things on my sims from the viewer side a bit disturbing.

Makes me wonder can I block those viewers from my own opensims ?



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Re: Question about IAR files

John Patten-3
Coming full circle from my original question...issue is obviously a common concern. Too bad SL Version 2 does not have a way to save out inventory like OpenSim's IAR.  Seems like it would have been a great opportunity add that capability for things you create in SL Viewer Ver 2...

Just to follow up on IAR, it worked fine for me in my tests, granted the VirtualBox servers were identical but on different computers. I liked the fact that you have to be organized with the stuff your create and place them is specfic folders, etc good skill for students ;-)

Most of what I see my teachers and students using OpenSim would be in "walled garden" type of situations. So the ability to deploy a specific sim with prebuilt content, and then ability to IAR content they create and inventory in portfolio, etc. seems to fit my purpose. 

Do have a couple questions about IAR though:

1. When I was running Save and Load IAR I'm working directly on the server and the command line on the server. It also saved the IAR files directly to the bin folder (Diva install) and requires that they be in the bin folder when I load them back into a different sim.  This is not a problem when the server and the client are on the same hardware (my desktop), but when OpenSim is deployed on it's own hardware, am i going to have to log in remotely to the server to run iar? Is it possible to ssh to OpenSim server and run the management console to save and load IAR files? How would you do that if the server is already running, you wouldn't want to start another terminal window and run opensim.exe again, would you? 

2. When running the save iar command, is it possible to set the saved file path to another computer? If so what would that look like? 
<save iar user name ///user/myuseraccount/Documents/OpenSim_Archives mySecretPassword theSavedArchive >??? Same thing for using the "load iar" command from a client computer?

Would it be possible for the "save iar" command to save to an ftp directory, like: <save iar user name ftp://imstudent:mypassword@Archive_Student_Created_Content/Server/OpenSim_Archives_Portfolio/ mySecretPassword theSavedArchive > ???

3. Is there a gui interface to run the OpenSim mangement console from a desktop to generate, save and load IAR files?

Ideally, I would like the ability to save and load AIR files from a client computer rather than the server. Or even if there was an little GUI app that students could use to save what the create to a digital portfoio, kind of like the ftp example in question number 2.

Thanks in advance for any help!  :-)

John Patten
Tech Dept
SUSD




On Feb 23, 2010, at 12:13 PM, marcel verhagen wrote:

I am happy with the save tools of opensim. It enables me to build cool things with a real time pressure.
Cause it is easy to back up all created on the sims and in my inventory on the serverside.

Somehow I do not feel the need to copy over tons of things from sl and back.

However I find the idea that someone who logs in with a pirate viewer and also can copy all the things on my sims from the viewer side a bit disturbing.

Makes me wonder can I block those viewers from my own opensims ?


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Re: Question about IAR files

Karen_Palen
In reply to this post by M.E. Verhagen
Of course you can, and it will have just as much a negative effect as it is doing in Second Life right now!

I refer you to the blogs on the latest SL pirate turf war for more information, however the content theft simply is not a viewer problem!

Karen

--- On Tue, 2/23/10, marcel verhagen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: marcel verhagen <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Question about IAR files
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Tuesday, February 23, 2010, 1:13 PM
> I am happy with the save tools of opensim.
> It enables me to build cool things with a real time
> pressure.
> Cause it is easy to back up all created on the sims and in
> my inventory on the serverside.
>
> Somehow I do not feel the need to copy over tons of things
> from sl and back.
>
>
> However I find the idea that someone who logs in with a
> pirate viewer and also can copy all the things on my sims
> from the viewer side a bit disturbing.
>
> Makes me wonder can I block those viewers from my own
> opensims ?
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>


     
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Re: Question about IAR files

Len W. Brown
In reply to this post by M.E. Verhagen
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 2:13 PM, marcel verhagen <[hidden email]> wrote:
I am happy with the save tools of opensim. It enables me to build cool things with a real time pressure.
Cause it is easy to back up all created on the sims and in my inventory on the serverside.

Somehow I do not feel the need to copy over tons of things from sl and back.

However I find the idea that someone who logs in with a pirate viewer and also can copy all the things on my sims from the viewer side a bit disturbing.

Makes me wonder can I block those viewers from my own opensims ?



_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


I am unsure if the scripts work in OpenSim, but in Second Life there are all kinds of scripts now that detect and instantly ban avatars from your land as well as immediately filing an abuse report with Linden Lab.

Interestingly, this is the first and only time in Linden Lab history have they taken immediate interest in these abuse reports and have a slew of people on hand 24/7 to actively investigate and ban users.  It's the only reason why getting banned from Second Life completely is such a swift action.

I've reported people in-world numerous times over the years for displays of obvious and very disgusting ch*ld p*rn images and content and found the same stuff STILL fully visible and accessible in-world weeks later.  Proof Linden Lab didn't care until a threat came along to cut into their profit margin.  Suddenly they have employed a fleet of administrators to follow up on "illegal viewers" immediately and ruthlessly.

:)

--
- Len W. Brown
  [hidden email]
     http://www.lenfocenter.com

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Re: Question about IAR files

Karen_Palen
Most scripts work in OpenSim - see http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Scripting_Documentation

That being said, the Second Life script engine tends to allow bad practices such as multiple included loops using the same loop variable! I have one example which uses the variable "i" eight times within the same scope!

I can only repeat my rant about this not being a viewer problem though!

The current fuss is actually a turf war between two thieves and IMHO not something that should impact OpenSim users in any way!

Karen

--- On Tue, 2/23/10, Len Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Len Brown <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Question about IAR files
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Tuesday, February 23, 2010, 2:41 PM
> On Tue, Feb 23,
> 2010 at 2:13 PM, marcel verhagen <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> I am happy with the save tools of opensim. It enables me to
> build cool things with a real time pressure.
> Cause it is easy to back up all created on the sims and in
> my inventory on the serverside.
>
> Somehow I do not feel the need to copy over tons of things
> from sl and back.
>
>
>
> However I find the idea that someone who logs in with a
> pirate viewer and also can copy all the things on my sims
> from the viewer side a bit disturbing.
>
> Makes me wonder can I block those viewers from my own
> opensims ?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Opensim-users mailing list
>
> [hidden email]
>
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>
>
> I am unsure if the scripts work in OpenSim, but in Second
> Life there are all kinds of scripts now that detect and
> instantly ban avatars from your land as well as immediately
> filing an abuse report with Linden Lab.
>
>
> Interestingly, this is the first and only time in Linden
> Lab history have they taken immediate interest in these
> abuse reports and have a slew of people on hand 24/7 to
> actively investigate and ban users.  It's the only
> reason why getting banned from Second Life completely is
> such a swift action.
>
>
> I've reported people in-world numerous times over the
> years for displays of obvious and very disgusting ch*ld p*rn
> images and content and found the same stuff STILL fully
> visible and accessible in-world weeks later.  Proof Linden
> Lab didn't care until a threat came along to cut into
> their profit margin.  Suddenly they have employed a fleet
> of administrators to follow up on "illegal
> viewers" immediately and ruthlessly.
>
>
> :)
>
> --
> - Len W. Brown
>    [hidden email]
>
>       http://www.lenfocenter.com
>
>
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>


     
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Re: Question about IAR files

justincc
In reply to this post by John Patten-3
GMail-johnpat10 wrote:

> Do have a couple questions about IAR though:
>
> 1. When I was running Save and Load IAR I'm working directly on the
> server and the command line on the server. It also saved the IAR files
> directly to the bin folder (Diva install) and requires that they be in
> the bin folder when I load them back into a different sim.  This is not
> a problem when the server and the client are on the same hardware (my
> desktop), but when OpenSim is deployed on it's own hardware, am i going
> to have to log in remotely to the server to run iar? Is it possible to
> ssh to OpenSim server and run the management console to save and load
> IAR files? How would you do that if the server is already running, you
> wouldn't want to start another terminal window and run opensim.exe
> again, would you?

At this point you have to login remotely.  One way to do this is to run OpenSim in a "screen" instance (you should be able to google the screen command on the internet) and reconnect to that screen instance when you ssh in.

>
> 2. When running the save iar command, is it possible to set the saved
> file path to another computer? If so what would that look like?
> <save iar user name ///user/myuseraccount/Documents/OpenSim_Archives
> mySecretPassword theSavedArchive >??? Same thing for using the "load
> iar" command from a client computer?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean.

>
> Would it be possible for the "save iar" command to save to an ftp
> directory, like: <save iar user
> name ftp://imstudent:mypassword@Archive_Student_Created_Content/Server/OpenSim_Archives_Portfolio/
> mySecretPassword theSavedArchive > ???

At this point no, though it's an interesting idea.  At some point I'll implement the "load from url" facility on "load iar" that "load oar" already has.  Writing out would be pretty cool but I haven't given much thought to the issue yet.

>
> 3. Is there a gui interface to run the OpenSim mangement console from a
> desktop to generate, save and load IAR files?
>
> Ideally, I would like the ability to save and load AIR files from a
> client computer rather than the server. Or even if there was an little
> GUI app that students could use to save what the create to a digital
> portfoio, kind of like the ftp example in question number 2.

afaik nobody has written such a thing yet.  The first thing would be to implement a command on the remote admin interface similar to the existing ones for loading and saving oars remotely.  Then a gui could hook into that.

Remote generation may also be possible using OpenSim's remote REST console facility.  I don't have any instructions on using this to hand at the moment (if such have even been written).  This will still only write the files to directories reachable by the server.

>
> Thanks in advance for any help!  :-)
>
> John Patten
> Tech Dept
> SUSD
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 23, 2010, at 12:13 PM, marcel verhagen wrote:
>
>> I am happy with the save tools of opensim. It enables me to build cool
>> things with a real time pressure.
>> Cause it is easy to back up all created on the sims and in my
>> inventory on the serverside.
>>
>> Somehow I do not feel the need to copy over tons of things from sl and
>> back.
>>
>> However I find the idea that someone who logs in with a pirate viewer
>> and also can copy all the things on my sims from the viewer side a bit
>> disturbing.
>>
>> Makes me wonder can I block those viewers from my own opensims ?
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


--
Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
http://justincc.org
http://twitter.com/justincc
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Re: Question about IAR files

Roger BUCK
In reply to this post by John Patten-3
Apologies for 'terse' - No time for detailed answer now, but here's one
way to get started:

GMail-johnpat10 wrote:
  > 1. When I was running Save and Load IAR I'm working directly on the
> server and the command line on the server. It also saved the IAR files
> directly to the bin folder (Diva install) and requires that they be in
> the bin folder when I load them back into a different sim.

The path to load/save .iar can be specified - this allows for lots of
options beyond the obvious - it is possible to both store local content
and mount remote shares into designated local filesystem, for example:

   opt/opensim/bin/Library/folders

See: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Inventory_Archives

This 'sort of' works for simple instances - I had trouble with path
recursion but not had time to investigate in detail (see previous
threads in this list)

>  This is not
> a problem when the server and the client are on the same hardware (my
> desktop), but when OpenSim is deployed on it's own hardware, am i going
> to have to log in remotely to the server to run iar? Is it possible to
> ssh to OpenSim server and run the management console to save and load
> IAR files? How would you do that if the server is already running,

Yes to all of the above - using the 'screen' utility provides one
solution - start your instance of opensim in a 'screen' session, login
via ssh and access/attach logout/detach from that session as often as
you like.

Some info about 'screen':

  http://magazine.redhat.com/2007/09/27/a-guide-to-gnu-screen/

This example RH style sysv init script might give you some ideas:

#!/bin/bash
#
# Provides an OTT sys.v init script
#     with multiple 'screen' sessions opensim
#
# opensim
#
# chkconfig: - 51 50
# description: OpenSim diva distro
# processname: opensim

# Source function library.
. /etc/rc.d/init.d/functions

# Get config.
. /etc/sysconfig/network

# Check that networking is up.
if [ ${NETWORKING} = "no" ]
then
     exit 0
fi

# See how we were called.
case "$2" in
     realxtend)
         echo "Distro ${2}..."
         BIN_DIR="/opt/opensim/realxtend/bin"
     ;;
     *)
        # diva...
         ROOT_DIR="/opt/opensim"
         BIN_DIR="/opt/opensim/diva/bin"
esac

#echo "Debug ${2}: Set path to default disto located in: ${BIN_DIR}"

# Check app exists, or exit...
[ -f ${BIN_DIR}/OpenSim.exe ] || exit 0

function startdiva {
     cd ${BIN_DIR}
     echo " Starting OpenSim..."
     ulimit -s 262144
     screen -S opensim -d -m mono OpenSim.exe
-physics=OpenDynamicsEngine -gridmode=false
}

function getstatus {
    session=( $(screen -ls | sed -r -ne 's/ *//g' -ne
's/\((At|De)tached\)// p') )
    echo "Debug session: ${session}"
    screen -list
     echo "To view a screen: 'screen -r screenname'"
}

function killscreens {
     killall -15 screen > /dev/null 2>&1
     screen -wipe > /dev/null 2>&1
     echo "Opensim screen instances killed..."
}

if [ "$#" -eq "0" ]; then
     session=( $(screen -ls | sed -r -ne 's/ *//g' -ne
's/\((At|De)tached\)// p') )
     echo "valid parameters are: ${0} [ start | stop | status | fixip ]"
else
     case "$1" in
         "start")
             startdiva
             ;;
         "stop")
             killscreens
             ;;
         "status")
             getstatus
             ;;
         "restart")
             killall -HUP mono
             $0 stop
             sleep 2s
             $0 start
             ;;
         *)
             echo "Usage: $0 {start|stop|status|restart}"
             exit 1
    esac
fi

# To display active background sessions...
screen -list

echo "To view a screen: 'screen -r screenname "

# === done ===
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Re: Question about IAR files

Toni Alatalo
In reply to this post by justincc
Justin Clark-Casey kirjoitti:
>> 3. Is there a gui interface to run the OpenSim mangement console from a
>> desktop to generate, save and load IAR files?
>>    
> afaik nobody has written such a thing yet.  The first thing would be to implement a command on the

We were just yesterday brainstorming and planning how to do that kind of
interface as a part of realXtend work, not for OARs or IARs though but
for the .scene (dotscene) xml format we use to export from 3d apps like
Blender and Max. The logistics with the transfer of the tarball/zip and
commanding the Opensim server from the GUI are identical, though, just
the xml etc. inside is different.

The main need is to allow modellers and level designers etc. to upload
scenes (or parts of them) remotely to the server, without needing access
to the system nor having to know how to use the console. This is how it
works with the console now,
http://realxtend.blogspot.com/2009/12/tutorial-to-import-scene-from-blender.html

> remote admin interface similar to the existing ones for loading and saving oars remotely.  Then a gui could hook into that.
> Remote generation may also be possible using OpenSim's remote REST console facility.  I don't have any instructions on using this to hand at the moment (if such have even been written).  This will

Our current candidate solution is to make a REST handler to OpenSim
which accepts the scene+assets bundle over http, and runs the
import/load command that nowdays is given from the console. Possibly
that same http listener will also implement a web (html) gui for doing
that. Another GUI options we have is writing one to the Naali viewer
itself (using qt, instead of html), and we'll probably at some point
also integrate the http scene upload to Blender so that it can send it
to Opensim directly.

An interesting idea is to put the imported scene as an asset to the
inventory. That is, if you have already imported some scenes / loaded
some OARs earlier, they show in your inv, and you can apply them from
there (kind of like rezzing linksets). We will probably do this for
.scene, dunno if the idea would apply for OARs as well.

This is not terribly urgent for us, 'cause right now the building works
progress by the modellers just using local sandboxes where managing the
files is easy and no harm can be done accidentally to production
servers. But probably we want this sooner than later to ease remote
uploads, possible implement already next week or so (after some planning
first still).

So if we do that, will at least give some info for vanilla Opensim usage
too about how http uploads / rest commands work for this etc., and
possibly some code that also OAR/IAR uploading can reuse.

We are not using OAR for this 'cause the format is much more complex
than the very simple .scene xml which works for just the visual parts of
the scene (models, their pos&rot&scales, and materials), and .scene
exporters already existed for most modelling apps. OAR is a
autoserialized .NET dump of OpenSim internal data structures, so not the
easiest to support in other applications, and if we'd write support for
it by hand, it would break always when OpenSim internal structures
change. OAR is of course very useful for saving all the OpenSim data for
transfers and backups, just not easiest for interop with other
applications. Whether these two use cases could be somehow unified to
use the same format is another discussion (and on a -dev forum to not
bore users :), just wanted to mention here why we don't use OAR for this
now.

~Toni

>> Thanks in advance for any help!  :-)
>>
>> John Patten
>> Tech Dept
>> SUSD
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 23, 2010, at 12:13 PM, marcel verhagen wrote:
>>
>>    
>>> I am happy with the save tools of opensim. It enables me to build cool
>>> things with a real time pressure.
>>> Cause it is easy to back up all created on the sims and in my
>>> inventory on the serverside.
>>>
>>> Somehow I do not feel the need to copy over tons of things from sl and
>>> back.
>>>
>>> However I find the idea that someone who logs in with a pirate viewer
>>> and also can copy all the things on my sims from the viewer side a bit
>>> disturbing.
>>>
>>> Makes me wonder can I block those viewers from my own opensims ?
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>      
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>    
>
>
>  

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Re: Question about IAR files

John Patten-3
In reply to this post by Roger BUCK
Thanks Roger!

I'll will give these a look and a try!

John Patten
SUSD

On Feb 23, 2010, at 7:07 PM, Roger BUCK wrote:

> Apologies for 'terse' - No time for detailed answer now, but here's  
> one
> way to get started:
>
> GMail-johnpat10 wrote:
>> 1. When I was running Save and Load IAR I'm working directly on the
>> server and the command line on the server. It also saved the IAR  
>> files
>> directly to the bin folder (Diva install) and requires that they be  
>> in
>> the bin folder when I load them back into a different sim.
>
> The path to load/save .iar can be specified - this allows for lots of
> options beyond the obvious - it is possible to both store local  
> content
> and mount remote shares into designated local filesystem, for example:
>
>   opt/opensim/bin/Library/folders
>
> See: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Inventory_Archives
>
> This 'sort of' works for simple instances - I had trouble with path
> recursion but not had time to investigate in detail (see previous
> threads in this list)
>
>> This is not
>> a problem when the server and the client are on the same hardware (my
>> desktop), but when OpenSim is deployed on it's own hardware, am i  
>> going
>> to have to log in remotely to the server to run iar? Is it possible  
>> to
>> ssh to OpenSim server and run the management console to save and load
>> IAR files? How would you do that if the server is already running,
>
> Yes to all of the above - using the 'screen' utility provides one
> solution - start your instance of opensim in a 'screen' session, login
> via ssh and access/attach logout/detach from that session as often as
> you like.
>
> Some info about 'screen':
>
>  http://magazine.redhat.com/2007/09/27/a-guide-to-gnu-screen/
>
> This example RH style sysv init script might give you some ideas:
>
> #!/bin/bash
> #
> # Provides an OTT sys.v init script
> #     with multiple 'screen' sessions opensim
> #
> # opensim
> #
> # chkconfig: - 51 50
> # description: OpenSim diva distro
> # processname: opensim
>
> # Source function library.
> . /etc/rc.d/init.d/functions
>
> # Get config.
> . /etc/sysconfig/network
>
> # Check that networking is up.
> if [ ${NETWORKING} = "no" ]
> then
>     exit 0
> fi
>
> # See how we were called.
> case "$2" in
>     realxtend)
>         echo "Distro ${2}..."
>         BIN_DIR="/opt/opensim/realxtend/bin"
>     ;;
>     *)
> # diva...
>         ROOT_DIR="/opt/opensim"
>         BIN_DIR="/opt/opensim/diva/bin"
> esac
>
> #echo "Debug ${2}: Set path to default disto located in: ${BIN_DIR}"
>
> # Check app exists, or exit...
> [ -f ${BIN_DIR}/OpenSim.exe ] || exit 0
>
> function startdiva {
>     cd ${BIN_DIR}
>     echo " Starting OpenSim..."
>     ulimit -s 262144
>     screen -S opensim -d -m mono OpenSim.exe
> -physics=OpenDynamicsEngine -gridmode=false
> }
>
> function getstatus {
>    session=( $(screen -ls | sed -r -ne 's/ *//g' -ne
> 's/\((At|De)tached\)// p') )
>    echo "Debug session: ${session}"
>    screen -list
>     echo "To view a screen: 'screen -r screenname'"
> }
>
> function killscreens {
>     killall -15 screen > /dev/null 2>&1
>     screen -wipe > /dev/null 2>&1
>     echo "Opensim screen instances killed..."
> }
>
> if [ "$#" -eq "0" ]; then
>     session=( $(screen -ls | sed -r -ne 's/ *//g' -ne
> 's/\((At|De)tached\)// p') )
>     echo "valid parameters are: ${0} [ start | stop | status |  
> fixip ]"
> else
>     case "$1" in
>         "start")
>             startdiva
>             ;;
>         "stop")
>             killscreens
>             ;;
>         "status")
>             getstatus
>             ;;
>         "restart")
>             killall -HUP mono
>             $0 stop
>             sleep 2s
>             $0 start
>             ;;
>         *)
>             echo "Usage: $0 {start|stop|status|restart}"
>             exit 1
>    esac
> fi
>
> # To display active background sessions...
> screen -list
>
> echo "To view a screen: 'screen -r screenname "
>
> # === done ===
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users

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