Question about IAR files

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Question about IAR files

DZ-2
Karen,

Recommending anyone use Neillife is fairly irresponsible unless you mention that it can result in a permanent BAN from the Lindens, as well as a deletion of your avatar and ALL of the in-world items it owns.  I would love to be able to point you to a definitive list of "approved" alternative viewers, but I haven't found one.  I do know people who have lost VERY LARGE investments in SL  ONLY because they logged in using NeilLife.

DO NOT log in to Second Life with that viewer! 

D




From: Karen Palen <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:51:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Question about IAR files
You are correct that Second Inventory attempts to suck/blow (love the analogy!) through the user interface, as well as Meerkat and Emerald viewer.

There are at least a couple of "backup" tools that do attempt to save contents this way - NielLife viewer being the most popular right now, even if it is often used as an SL to SL piracy tool.







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Re: Question about IAR files

Karen_Palen
Linden Labs has said that they will NOT ban any specific viewer, only people who misuse them!

Big surprise, selling stolen content can and will result in a ban!

Karen

--- On Tue, 2/23/10, dz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: dz <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Opensim-users] Question about IAR files
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Tuesday, February 23, 2010, 9:44 AM
> Karen,
>
> Recommending anyone use Neillife is fairly irresponsible
> unless you mention that it can result in a permanent BAN
> from the Lindens, as well as a deletion of your avatar and
> ALL of the in-world items it owns.  I would love to be able
> to point you to a definitive list of "approved"
> alternative viewers, but I haven't found one.  I do
> know people who have lost VERY LARGE investments in SL 
> ONLY because they logged in using NeilLife.
>
>
> DO NOT log in to Second Life with that viewer! 
>
> D
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Karen Palen <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 18:51:36 -0800 (PST)
>
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Question about IAR files
> You are correct that Second Inventory attempts to suck/blow
> (love the analogy!) through the user interface, as well as
> Meerkat and Emerald viewer.
>
>
>
> There are at least a couple of "backup" tools
> that do attempt to save contents this way - NielLife viewer
> being the most popular right now, even if it is often used
> as an SL to SL piracy tool.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>


     
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Re: Question about IAR files

Dickson, Mike (ISS Software)
On 02/23/2010 12:14 PM, Karen Palen wrote:
> Linden Labs has said that they will NOT ban any specific viewer, only people who misuse them!
>
> Big surprise, selling stolen content can and will result in a ban!
>
> Karen
>
>    
A viewer certification program was announced at SLPro today. I expect
there will be more info in the Blog shortly.

Mike

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SL Viewer policy (was Re: Question about IAR files)

Dickson, Mike (ISS Software)
https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/community/blog/2010/02/23/introducing-a-new-third-party-viewer-directory-and-policy

More info on the viewer directory. Note also that Viewer 2/Snowglobe 2
was released today as beta.

Mike

On 02/23/2010 01:50 PM, Dickson, Mike (ISS Software) wrote:

> On 02/23/2010 12:14 PM, Karen Palen wrote:
>    
>> Linden Labs has said that they will NOT ban any specific viewer, only people who misuse them!
>>
>> Big surprise, selling stolen content can and will result in a ban!
>>
>> Karen
>>
>>
>>      
> A viewer certification program was announced at SLPro today. I expect
> there will be more info in the Blog shortly.
>
> Mike
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>    

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Re: SL Viewer policy (was Re: Question about IAR files)

Karen_Palen
Notice that this initiative is addressing many potential abuses by viewer writers, but NOT "content theft" since this is simply not a viewer problem but a data stream problem!

Remember before the LL viewer was released as open source there were quite a few "proxy" tools, early versions of "copybot" among them!

Karen

--- On Tue, 2/23/10, Mike Dickson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Mike Dickson <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Opensim-users] SL Viewer policy (was Re: Question about IAR files)
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Tuesday, February 23, 2010, 1:13 PM
> https://blogs.secondlife.com/community/community/blog/2010/02/23/introducing-a-new-third-party-viewer-directory-and-policy
>
> More info on the viewer directory. Note also that Viewer
> 2/Snowglobe 2
> was released today as beta.
>
> Mike
>
> On 02/23/2010 01:50 PM, Dickson, Mike (ISS Software)
> wrote:
> > On 02/23/2010 12:14 PM, Karen Palen wrote:
> >   
> >> Linden Labs has said that they will NOT ban any
> specific viewer, only people who misuse them!
> >>
> >> Big surprise, selling stolen content can and will
> result in a ban!
> >>
> >> Karen
> >>
> >>
> >>     
> > A viewer certification program was announced at SLPro
> today. I expect
> > there will be more info in the Blog shortly.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Opensim-users mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
> >   
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>


     
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Re: Question about IAR files

Len W. Brown
In reply to this post by Karen_Palen
On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 12:14 PM, Karen Palen <[hidden email]> wrote:
Linden Labs has said that they will NOT ban any specific viewer, only people who misuse them!

Big surprise, selling stolen content can and will result in a ban!

Karen


I know of a number of people who were banned from Second Life within minutes after simply logging into SL with a "bad" viewer.  One of them is the person I got my copy of CryoGen from.  He showed me twice in-world how it worked, before both times suddenly disappearing, then via Google Talk explaining that he got "auto-banned" again and had to spoof a different IP address then create a new free account before he could log back in again.

The idea of being "banned for selling stolen content" doesn't even exist here.  There is absolutely no way the stolen content can be identified as stolen.  Unless the original creator can prove that custom textures in use were ripped using something like the OpenGL texture ripper tool that hackers can also use in Second Life.  The object itself is 100% entirely identified as created and constructed by who-ever rezzes it in-world from the saved XML files previously ripped.

Of course, if you are selling an item that is "obviously" an exact duplicate of something a well-known seller offers, then it's pretty easy to assume you're a thief.  But the vast bulk of everyday items can be slightly modified or a different texture or shade applied to it, and suddenly it appears like it's an original created by you and you alone.
 
--
- Len W. Brown
  [hidden email]

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Re: Question about IAR files

Karen_Palen
Do you know about the non-existent town of "Ladron TX"?

Ladron is "thief" in Spanish and for many years was included in a remote corner of Texas on every Rand McNally map!

Any OTHER map publisher who included this fake town could expect and expensive lawsuit!

There are very well established techniques for dealing with counterfeits, almost all of which carry over nicely into a virtual world.

In this case a hidden face of a single prim that carries a texture which says something like "Made by Karen Palen all rights reserved" would provide very good evidence of copying!

Surely creative people can come up with far better texts than that BTW :-)

Karen

--- On Tue, 2/23/10, Len Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Len Brown <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Question about IAR files
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Tuesday, February 23, 2010, 2:54 PM
> On Tue, Feb 23,
> 2010 at 12:14 PM, Karen Palen <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> Linden Labs has said that they will NOT ban
> any specific viewer, only people who misuse them!
>
>
>
> Big surprise, selling stolen content can and will result in
> a ban!
>
>
>
> Karen
>
>
> I know of a number of people who were banned from Second
> Life within minutes after simply logging into SL with a
> "bad" viewer.  One of them is the person I got my
> copy of CryoGen from.  He showed me twice in-world how it
> worked, before both times suddenly disappearing, then via
> Google Talk explaining that he got "auto-banned"
> again and had to spoof a different IP address then create a
> new free account before he could log back in again.
>
>
> The idea of being "banned for selling stolen
> content" doesn't even exist here.  There is
> absolutely no way the stolen content can be identified as
> stolen.  Unless the original creator can prove that custom
> textures in use were ripped using something like the OpenGL
> texture ripper tool that hackers can also use in Second
> Life.  The object itself is 100% entirely identified as
> created and constructed by who-ever rezzes it in-world from
> the saved XML files previously ripped.
>
>
> Of course, if you are selling an item that is
> "obviously" an exact duplicate of something a
> well-known seller offers, then it's pretty easy to
> assume you're a thief.  But the vast bulk of everyday
> items can be slightly modified or a different texture or
> shade applied to it, and suddenly it appears like it's
> an original created by you and you alone.
>
>  
> --
> - Len W. Brown
>    [hidden email]
>
>
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>


     
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Re: Question about IAR files

Len W. Brown
provided the texture is included.

But I definitely see your point.  Like skin artists who place copyright and ownership text off to the side so it does not interfere with the texture of the avatar, but a ripper can see it loud and clear.

I've thought about that with the use of very tiny changes in some of the prim coordinates or dimensions as a kind of "fingerprint" to use for verification when it's duplicated by someone else.

I might now add that I've used this fingerprinting myself.  I use certain very tiny changes in certain prim sizes that I reproduce repeatedly in my Second Life furniture and houses.  Some are hardly noticeable.

Example: using 6.376 meters for a wall instead of 6.375 (which, to builders out there, makes more sense if you 'pop to grid' when building).

The fractional differences protrude inside of walls and/or ceilings so they have no effect on the end products appearance.  But I know they are there and as such I know that someone who manually built something, even with the intention of making it look identical to my own, would still be unable to replicate those little nuances in the way I did.

- Len

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 4:53 PM, Karen Palen <[hidden email]> wrote:
Do you know about the non-existent town of "Ladron TX"?

Ladron is "thief" in Spanish and for many years was included in a remote corner of Texas on every Rand McNally map!

Any OTHER map publisher who included this fake town could expect and expensive lawsuit!

There are very well established techniques for dealing with counterfeits, almost all of which carry over nicely into a virtual world.

In this case a hidden face of a single prim that carries a texture which says something like "Made by Karen Palen all rights reserved" would provide very good evidence of copying!

Surely creative people can come up with far better texts than that BTW :-)

Karen

--- On Tue, 2/23/10, Len Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Len Brown <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Question about IAR files
> Date: Tuesday, February 23, 2010, 2:54 PM
> On Tue, Feb 23,
> 2010 at 12:14 PM, Karen Palen <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> Linden Labs has said that they will NOT ban
> any specific viewer, only people who misuse them!
>
>
>
> Big surprise, selling stolen content can and will result in
> a ban!
>
>
>
> Karen
>
>
> I know of a number of people who were banned from Second
> Life within minutes after simply logging into SL with a
> "bad" viewer.  One of them is the person I got my
> copy of CryoGen from.  He showed me twice in-world how it
> worked, before both times suddenly disappearing, then via
> Google Talk explaining that he got "auto-banned"
> again and had to spoof a different IP address then create a
> new free account before he could log back in again.
>
>
> The idea of being "banned for selling stolen
> content" doesn't even exist here.  There is
> absolutely no way the stolen content can be identified as
> stolen.  Unless the original creator can prove that custom
> textures in use were ripped using something like the OpenGL
> texture ripper tool that hackers can also use in Second
> Life.  The object itself is 100% entirely identified as
> created and constructed by who-ever rezzes it in-world from
> the saved XML files previously ripped.
>
>
> Of course, if you are selling an item that is
> "obviously" an exact duplicate of something a
> well-known seller offers, then it's pretty easy to
> assume you're a thief.  But the vast bulk of everyday
> items can be slightly modified or a different texture or
> shade applied to it, and suddenly it appears like it's
> an original created by you and you alone.
>
>  
> --
> - Len W. Brown
>    [hidden email]
>
>
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>



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