Re: Meta-data for IAR and OAR + Sharing

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Re: Meta-data for IAR and OAR + Sharing

Revlin John
This is related to a thread from the dec '09 archives, "Re: OAR File Sharing Revisited", but I have some subject matter to add to the previous discussion that I don't think was directly addressed.

The OAR & IAR file formats need a meta-data component, most likely XML-based. This would facilitate many file sharing capabilities, allow for some sort of version system AND, most importantly I think, allow for tracking relationships between OAR's. The last capability seems to relate back to "Re: OpenVCE OAR on Mega-Region?" thread from jan '10.

Right now there's no mechanism for tracking relationships between multiple OARs other than the archive's filename which tells almost nothing about contents of the archive. Dido for IAR. A Meta-data system of OAR/IAR archives should first and fore-most list the contents of the archive as well as additional meta-data for each of individual component of those contents. Version tracking is particularly useful  in the case where a second user wishes to edit and re-archive the contents of an OAR, which would be a kind of sim re-mix. The would also allow for saving/loading multi-region sims in ways that address some of the short-falls of the current megaregion scheme (terrain load-tile still isn't working on my server, but I digress...)

I also think that the issue of sharing content is seperate from the issue of running the OpenSim server, meaning it should not be handled by another os module. All that the OpenSim server requires for loading new content from OARs and IARs is that the archive be placed in a folder under the bin heiarchy (I download OARs to bin/import/oar)  and then loaded via the server command line. This is a pretty simple mechanism, although some extra command line tools like the ability to list the contents of an archive before loading it (via meta-data component) would be extremely helpful.

However, the issue of retreiving OARs and IARS from a remote location is another matter. What's needed is a  separate application for tracking and sharing OAR/IAR and it would naturally implement the above mentioned meta-data component. Given these needs it seem like an appropriate system might be something like a feed/subscription system, kind of like a podcast/aggregator app. Feeds allow an app to track updates to content without requiring the host system to actually download such content. The retreival process can be managed, customized and automated, much like the process of retrieving new and past episodes in a podcast feed. Although the podcast system is limited by centralization, I think an OAR/IAR feed system could implement some form of peer-to-peer distribution capability, as well as allowing for multiple creator/authors for a single feed (and multiple versions of a single OAR/sim).

This would be awesome. My lexicon of technical terms kind of fails me when I think about the possibilities for OpenSim. If there's any interest in these ideas I'd love to have an extensive group discussion on the details of a potential implementation.

play and have fun,
Revlin



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Re: Meta-data for IAR and OAR + Sharing

Master_Mirage
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
Well, i still wouldent trust an OAR or IAR that wasent created with in the same grid. No way of knowing what stuff could have been put in it.. Ie naughty scripts, Stolen content and so on.

For me anyway, unless i know exactly who made it and whats in it, id never trust one from an un-knowen source. I think the main intent is for backing up your own stuff not for sharing.


Unless theres away to scan them, like AV scanning a file for viri, i wouldent recomend sharing them at all.
tnx

Revlin John wrote
-----------------------------
Right now there's no mechanism for tracking relationships between multiple
OARs other than the archive's filename which tells almost nothing about
contents of the archive. Dido for IAR. A Meta-data system of OAR/IAR
archives should first and fore-most list the contents of the archive as well
as additional meta-data for each of individual component of those contents.
Version tracking is particularly useful  in the case where a second user
wishes to edit and re-archive the contents of an OAR, which would be a kind
of sim re-mix. The would also allow for saving/loading multi-region sims in
ways that address some of the short-falls of the current megaregion scheme
(terrain load-tile still isn't working on my server, but I digress...)

I also think that the issue of sharing content is seperate from the issue of
running the OpenSim server, meaning it should not be handled by another os
module. All that the OpenSim server requires for loading new content from
OARs and IARs is that the archive be placed in a folder under the bin
heiarchy (I download OARs to bin/import/oar)  and then loaded via the server
command line. This is a pretty simple mechanism, although some extra command
line tools like the ability to list the contents of an archive before
loading it (via meta-data component) would be extremely helpful.

However, the issue of retreiving OARs and IARS from a remote location is
another matter. What's needed is a  separate application for tracking and
sharing OAR/IAR and it would naturally implement the above mentioned
meta-data component. Given these needs it seem like an appropriate system
might be something like a feed/subscription system, kind of like a
podcast/aggregator app. Feeds allow an app to track updates to content
without requiring the host system to actually download such content. The
retreival process can be managed, customized and automated, much like the
process of retrieving new and past episodes in a podcast feed. Although the
podcast system is limited by centralization, I think an OAR/IAR feed system
could implement some form of peer-to-peer distribution capability, as well
as allowing for multiple creator/authors for a single feed (and multiple
versions of a single OAR/sim).
--------------------------
play and have fun,
Revlin

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Re: Meta-data for IAR and OAR + Sharing

Justin Clark-Casey
In reply to this post by Revlin John
On 18/06/10 23:47, Revlin John wrote:
> This is related to a thread from the dec '09 archives, "Re: OAR File
> Sharing Revisited", but I have some subject matter to add to the
> previous discussion that I don't think was directly addressed.
>
> The OAR & IAR file formats need a meta-data component, most likely
> XML-based. This would facilitate many file sharing capabilities, allow
> for some sort of version system AND, most importantly I think, allow for
> tracking relationships between OAR's. The last capability seems to
> relate back to "Re: OpenVCE OAR on Mega-Region?" thread from jan '10.

There actually is already a metadata file contained within OARs and IARs called archive.xml.  It doesn't act as a
manifest but it does record version numbers for upward compatibility purposes.

>
> Right now there's no mechanism for tracking relationships between
> multiple OARs other than the archive's filename which tells almost
> nothing about contents of the archive. Dido for IAR. A Meta-data system
> of OAR/IAR archives should first and fore-most list the contents of the
> archive as well as additional meta-data for each of individual component
> of those contents. Version tracking is particularly useful  in the case
> where a second user wishes to edit and re-archive the contents of an
> OAR, which would be a kind of sim re-mix. The would also allow for
> saving/loading multi-region sims in ways that address some of the
> short-falls of the current megaregion scheme (terrain load-tile still
> isn't working on my server, but I digress...)

Not being able to save multi-regions is annoying and will ideally be fixed one day.  Loading/saving regions is
unfortunately probably more complicated than simply load/saving the separate 256x256 spaces.

>
> I also think that the issue of sharing content is seperate from the
> issue of running the OpenSim server, meaning it should not be handled by
> another os module. All that the OpenSim server requires for loading new
> content from OARs and IARs is that the archive be placed in a folder
> under the bin heiarchy (I download OARs to bin/import/oar)  and then
> loaded via the server command line. This is a pretty simple mechanism,
> although some extra command line tools like the ability to list the
> contents of an archive before loading it (via meta-data component) would
> be extremely helpful.

Archives are actually just tar.gz files.  You can untar them and inspect their contents.  See

http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OpenSim_Archives

for more details.

>
> However, the issue of retreiving OARs and IARS from a remote location is
> another matter. What's needed is a  separate application for tracking
> and sharing OAR/IAR and it would naturally implement the above mentioned
> meta-data component. Given these needs it seem like an appropriate
> system might be something like a feed/subscription system, kind of like
> a podcast/aggregator app. Feeds allow an app to track updates to content
> without requiring the host system to actually download such content. The
> retreival process can be managed, customized and automated, much like
> the process of retrieving new and past episodes in a podcast feed.
> Although the podcast system is limited by centralization, I think an
> OAR/IAR feed system could implement some form of peer-to-peer
> distribution capability, as well as allowing for multiple
> creator/authors for a single feed (and multiple versions of a single
> OAR/sim).

I'm not going to address this point directly, but I will note that it's possible to load iars/oars on the command line
from an URL as well as a file.

Any more complicated arrangement should almost certainly be left for tools outside OpenSim, imo.  There are hooks by
which add-on region modules can call load/save oar/iar functionality.

>
> This would be awesome. My lexicon of technical terms kind of fails me
> when I think about the possibilities for OpenSim. If there's any
> interest in these ideas I'd love to have an extensive group discussion
> on the details of a potential implementation.
>
> play and have fun,
> Revlin
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


--
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http://justincc.org
http://twitter.com/justincc
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Re: Meta-data for IAR and OAR + Sharing

Jeroen van Veen
How about RDF for OAR metadata?

kind regards,

Jeroen

On Saturday 19 June 2010 02:05:32 Justin Clark-Casey wrote:

> On 18/06/10 23:47, Revlin John wrote:
> > This is related to a thread from the dec '09 archives, "Re: OAR File
> > Sharing Revisited", but I have some subject matter to add to the
> > previous discussion that I don't think was directly addressed.
> >
> > The OAR & IAR file formats need a meta-data component, most likely
> > XML-based. This would facilitate many file sharing capabilities, allow
> > for some sort of version system AND, most importantly I think, allow for
> > tracking relationships between OAR's. The last capability seems to
> > relate back to "Re: OpenVCE OAR on Mega-Region?" thread from jan '10.
>
> There actually is already a metadata file contained within OARs and IARs
> called archive.xml.  It doesn't act as a manifest but it does record
> version numbers for upward compatibility purposes.
>
> > Right now there's no mechanism for tracking relationships between
> > multiple OARs other than the archive's filename which tells almost
> > nothing about contents of the archive. Dido for IAR. A Meta-data system
> > of OAR/IAR archives should first and fore-most list the contents of the
> > archive as well as additional meta-data for each of individual component
> > of those contents. Version tracking is particularly useful  in the case
> > where a second user wishes to edit and re-archive the contents of an
> > OAR, which would be a kind of sim re-mix. The would also allow for
> > saving/loading multi-region sims in ways that address some of the
> > short-falls of the current megaregion scheme (terrain load-tile still
> > isn't working on my server, but I digress...)
>
> Not being able to save multi-regions is annoying and will ideally be fixed
> one day.  Loading/saving regions is unfortunately probably more
> complicated than simply load/saving the separate 256x256 spaces.
>
> > I also think that the issue of sharing content is seperate from the
> > issue of running the OpenSim server, meaning it should not be handled by
> > another os module. All that the OpenSim server requires for loading new
> > content from OARs and IARs is that the archive be placed in a folder
> > under the bin heiarchy (I download OARs to bin/import/oar)  and then
> > loaded via the server command line. This is a pretty simple mechanism,
> > although some extra command line tools like the ability to list the
> > contents of an archive before loading it (via meta-data component) would
> > be extremely helpful.
>
> Archives are actually just tar.gz files.  You can untar them and inspect
> their contents.  See
>
> http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OpenSim_Archives
>
> for more details.
>
> > However, the issue of retreiving OARs and IARS from a remote location is
> > another matter. What's needed is a  separate application for tracking
> > and sharing OAR/IAR and it would naturally implement the above mentioned
> > meta-data component. Given these needs it seem like an appropriate
> > system might be something like a feed/subscription system, kind of like
> > a podcast/aggregator app. Feeds allow an app to track updates to content
> > without requiring the host system to actually download such content. The
> > retreival process can be managed, customized and automated, much like
> > the process of retrieving new and past episodes in a podcast feed.
> > Although the podcast system is limited by centralization, I think an
> > OAR/IAR feed system could implement some form of peer-to-peer
> > distribution capability, as well as allowing for multiple
> > creator/authors for a single feed (and multiple versions of a single
> > OAR/sim).
>
> I'm not going to address this point directly, but I will note that it's
> possible to load iars/oars on the command line from an URL as well as a
> file.
>
> Any more complicated arrangement should almost certainly be left for tools
> outside OpenSim, imo.  There are hooks by which add-on region modules can
> call load/save oar/iar functionality.
>
> > This would be awesome. My lexicon of technical terms kind of fails me
> > when I think about the possibilities for OpenSim. If there's any
> > interest in these ideas I'd love to have an extensive group discussion
> > on the details of a potential implementation.
> >
> > play and have fun,
> > Revlin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Opensim-users mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
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Re: Meta-data for IAR and OAR + Sharing

Revlin John
In reply to this post by Revlin John
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Justin Clark-Casey <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 01:05:32 +0100
Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Meta-data for IAR and OAR + Sharing
 
There actually is already a metadata file contained within OARs and IARs called archive.xml.  It doesn't act as a manifest but it does record version numbers for upward compatibility purposes.

   That's cool. Can the form of "archive.xml" be extended to act as a a manifest? I presume that would require an extension to the OpenSim modules that handles compressing content to tar.gz files. It would have to extensively parse, then list all items of content in some kind of tree format and write this as "archive.xml" before calling tar. My best guess any way.

 
I also think that the issue of sharing content is seperate from the
issue of running the OpenSim server, meaning it should not be handled by
another os module. All that the OpenSim server requires for loading new
content from OARs and IARs is that the archive be placed in a folder
under the bin heiarchy (I download OARs to bin/import/oar)  and then
loaded via the server command line. This is a pretty simple mechanism,
although some extra command line tools like the ability to list the
contents of an archive before loading it (via meta-data component) would
be extremely helpful.

Archives are actually just tar.gz files.  You can untar them and inspect their contents.  See

http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OpenSim_Archives

for more details.

This I knew and I'm making use of the fact that OAR/IAR can be decompressed into a folder tree outside of OpenSim. However it would be helpful to be able to view the contents of an OAR from within the OpenSim command line environment, rather than having to switch back and forth between a terminal running OpenSim and a terminal running the native os shell. Basically the ability to call tar, ls, mkdir and rm functions from within OpenSim would probably satisfy this need (a module supporting native shell commands?).

Thanks for your helpful comments and redirects, Justin.

Revlin

--
play and have fun.

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