Retaining correct creator/owner when moving OARs between stand-alone simulators.

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Retaining correct creator/owner when moving OARs between stand-alone simulators.

Kurt Reisler
We have a number of stand-alone OpenSim 0.7.1.1 simulators.  
Occasionally we have a need to move a region between simulators via OAR
files.

The problem is that when imported via an OAR, the owner/creator of an
asset are set correctly IF that UUID can be found in the database (we
are running all of them under MySQL).  If it can't be found, it defaults
to the simulator owner (me).  That means that I wind up owning all the
assets I have to move between simulators.

Has anyone got any suggestions as to how I could change the UUIDs to be
the same on each of the simulators (in other words, what tables in the
opensim database need to be modified and what fields)?  Has anyone tried
to do this before?

I suspect I am going to run into the same problem with user UUID's when
I move all of the stand-alones into a grid configuration.

Thanks in advance
Kurt

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Re: Retaining correct creator/owner when moving OARs between stand-alone simulators.

Robert L martin
On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Kurt Reisler <[hidden email]> wrote:
> We have a number of stand-alone OpenSim 0.7.1.1 simulators.  Occasionally we
> have a need to move a region between simulators via OAR files.
>
> The problem is that when imported via an OAR, the owner/creator of an asset
> are set correctly IF that UUID can be found in the database (we are running
> all of them under MySQL).  If it can't be found, it defaults to the
> simulator owner (me).  That means that I wind up owning all the assets I
> have to move between simulators.

i would think that some sort of editor for OAR/IAR files would also
work and may actually be a better idea. actually being able to edit
OAR and IAR files would be a very nifty thing to do especially for
assets that you want to make different colored/textured copies of.


------
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Re: Retaining correct creator/owner when moving OARs between stand-alone simulators.

Opensimfan
This post was updated on .
i use a mysql query  to change all UUID's  of assets and prims (rezzed or not rezzed )
also making backups is important (mysql dump) .   with MS-SQL server ("denali" ) 2011
its ever easier and faster...

i could make a mysql version for you, you only have to change avatar uuid's


Dutchglory

 
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Re: Retaining correct creator/owner when moving OARs between stand-alone simulators.

justincc
In reply to this post by Kurt Reisler
The solutions already advanced sound good, though I've never tried these approaches myself.

Another possibility is to use the --profile switch in the save oar command.  Theoretically, this saves creator names
into the OAR.  When loaded by another OpenSim, these are used for creator names instead of resolving the UUIDs back into
user names (or to the estate manager if they are not present).

However, I've forgotten exactly how this switch works (I didn't write it :) and there's no documentation yet.  This
needs to be investigated and written unless someone else can chime in.  I think the Kitely guys have it working if
they're on the list and can contributed any data.

Also, in this we're doing things that the client was never explicitly designed to do, though it has been working.

On 02/09/11 18:21, Kurt Reisler wrote:

> We have a number of stand-alone OpenSim 0.7.1.1 simulators. Occasionally we have a need to move a region between
> simulators via OAR files.
>
> The problem is that when imported via an OAR, the owner/creator of an asset are set correctly IF that UUID can be found
> in the database (we are running all of them under MySQL). If it can't be found, it defaults to the simulator owner (me).
> That means that I wind up owning all the assets I have to move between simulators.
>
> Has anyone got any suggestions as to how I could change the UUIDs to be the same on each of the simulators (in other
> words, what tables in the opensim database need to be modified and what fields)? Has anyone tried to do this before?
>
> I suspect I am going to run into the same problem with user UUID's when I move all of the stand-alones into a grid
> configuration.
>
> Thanks in advance
> Kurt
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


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Re: Retaining correct creator/owner when moving OARs between stand-alone simulators.

R. Gunther
Sounds intressting, but if there's a switch. it sounds more intressting
to save creators and uuid's always. and with loading check if uuid
exists. if not use creator name.

-----------

On Sat, 2011-09-03 at 01:18 +0100, Justin Clark-Casey wrote:

> The solutions already advanced sound good, though I've never tried these approaches myself.
>
> Another possibility is to use the --profile switch in the save oar command.  Theoretically, this saves creator names
> into the OAR.  When loaded by another OpenSim, these are used for creator names instead of resolving the UUIDs back into
> user names (or to the estate manager if they are not present).
>
> However, I've forgotten exactly how this switch works (I didn't write it :) and there's no documentation yet.  This
> needs to be investigated and written unless someone else can chime in.  I think the Kitely guys have it working if
> they're on the list and can contributed any data.
>
> Also, in this we're doing things that the client was never explicitly designed to do, though it has been working.
>
> On 02/09/11 18:21, Kurt Reisler wrote:
> > We have a number of stand-alone OpenSim 0.7.1.1 simulators. Occasionally we have a need to move a region between
> > simulators via OAR files.
> >
> > The problem is that when imported via an OAR, the owner/creator of an asset are set correctly IF that UUID can be found
> > in the database (we are running all of them under MySQL). If it can't be found, it defaults to the simulator owner (me).
> > That means that I wind up owning all the assets I have to move between simulators.
> >
> > Has anyone got any suggestions as to how I could change the UUIDs to be the same on each of the simulators (in other
> > words, what tables in the opensim database need to be modified and what fields)? Has anyone tried to do this before?
> >
> > I suspect I am going to run into the same problem with user UUID's when I move all of the stand-alones into a grid
> > configuration.
> >
> > Thanks in advance
> > Kurt
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Opensim-users mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>


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Re: Retaining correct creator/owner when moving OARs between stand-alone simulators.

justincc
That kind of thing may well make sense in the future.

On 03/09/11 01:40, R. Gunther wrote:

> Sounds intressting, but if there's a switch. it sounds more intressting
> to save creators and uuid's always. and with loading check if uuid
> exists. if not use creator name.
>
> -----------
>
> On Sat, 2011-09-03 at 01:18 +0100, Justin Clark-Casey wrote:
>> The solutions already advanced sound good, though I've never tried these approaches myself.
>>
>> Another possibility is to use the --profile switch in the save oar command.  Theoretically, this saves creator names
>> into the OAR.  When loaded by another OpenSim, these are used for creator names instead of resolving the UUIDs back into
>> user names (or to the estate manager if they are not present).
>>
>> However, I've forgotten exactly how this switch works (I didn't write it :) and there's no documentation yet.  This
>> needs to be investigated and written unless someone else can chime in.  I think the Kitely guys have it working if
>> they're on the list and can contributed any data.
>>
>> Also, in this we're doing things that the client was never explicitly designed to do, though it has been working.
>>
>> On 02/09/11 18:21, Kurt Reisler wrote:
>>> We have a number of stand-alone OpenSim 0.7.1.1 simulators. Occasionally we have a need to move a region between
>>> simulators via OAR files.
>>>
>>> The problem is that when imported via an OAR, the owner/creator of an asset are set correctly IF that UUID can be found
>>> in the database (we are running all of them under MySQL). If it can't be found, it defaults to the simulator owner (me).
>>> That means that I wind up owning all the assets I have to move between simulators.
>>>
>>> Has anyone got any suggestions as to how I could change the UUIDs to be the same on each of the simulators (in other
>>> words, what tables in the opensim database need to be modified and what fields)? Has anyone tried to do this before?
>>>
>>> I suspect I am going to run into the same problem with user UUID's when I move all of the stand-alones into a grid
>>> configuration.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance
>>> Kurt
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>


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Re: Retaining correct creator/owner when moving OARs between stand-alone simulators.

Oren Hurvitz
In reply to this post by justincc
When you save an OAR and use the "--profile" option, the resulting XML contains an additional field for each item: "CreatorData". This field contains the URL of your site's profile server (which isn't actually used, so it can be anything), and the creator's name.

When you load an OAR that contains this information:
1. If the creator's UUID exists on the grid then it's used.
2. Otherwise, if a user with the same *name* as the creator exists then that user's UUID is used.
3. Otherwise, the importing user becomes the creator (this is the most common outcome).
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Re: Retaining correct creator/owner when moving OARs between stand-alone simulators.

justincc
I'm surprised this is the case.   I was fairly sure that there was a way to get the passed in names to be used in the
creator field, even if there was no same name user account present.

On 04/09/11 20:21, Oren Hurvitz wrote:

> When you save an OAR and use the "--profile" option, the resulting XML
> contains an additional field for each item: "CreatorData". This field
> contains the URL of your site's profile server (which isn't actually used,
> so it can be anything), and the creator's name.
>
> When you load an OAR that contains this information:
> 1. If the creator's UUID exists on the grid then it's used.
> 2. Otherwise, if a user with the same *name* as the creator exists then that
> user's UUID is used.
> 3. Otherwise, the importing user becomes the creator (this is the most
> common outcome).
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://opensim-users.2152040.n2.nabble.com/Retaining-correct-creator-owner-when-moving-OARs-between-stand-alone-simulators-tp6754685p6759048.html
> Sent from the opensim-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>


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Re: Retaining correct creator/owner when moving OARs between stand-alone simulators.

Oren Hurvitz
You're right: in step #2, if a user with this name doesn't exist then a user is added. However, this user is only added in the cache; it's not added to the users database. The effect is that the correct creator name appears in the GUI, but it's really only a placeholder.
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Re: Retaining correct creator/owner when moving OARs between stand-alone simulators.

Kurt Reisler
In reply to this post by Oren Hurvitz
Confirmed.  Using the save oar --profile <random URL> filename.oar
resulted in the imported assets having the correct creator (that account
name exists on both platforms), but the owner is still the person who
did the importing (me).  Is there any way to have both the creator and
the owner set correctly if that name exists, even if the UUIDs are
different across platforms?

So, that is a 50% solution.

Thanks
Kurt

On 9/4/2011 3:21 PM, Oren Hurvitz wrote:

> When you save an OAR and use the "--profile" option, the resulting XML
> contains an additional field for each item: "CreatorData". This field
> contains the URL of your site's profile server (which isn't actually used,
> so it can be anything), and the creator's name.
>
> When you load an OAR that contains this information:
> 1. If the creator's UUID exists on the grid then it's used.
> 2. Otherwise, if a user with the same *name* as the creator exists then that
> user's UUID is used.
> 3. Otherwise, the importing user becomes the creator (this is the most
> common outcome).
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://opensim-users.2152040.n2.nabble.com/Retaining-correct-creator-owner-when-moving-OARs-between-stand-alone-simulators-tp6754685p6759048.html
> Sent from the opensim-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users

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Re: Retaining correct creator/owner when moving OARs between stand-alone simulators.

justincc
This isn't currently possible - creator fields are quite like labels and are conceptually separate from simulator logic.
  The owner fields are much more involved in things such as permissions checks.

You could also argue that conceptually if you load an OAR into a region you 'own' the instantiations of those objects.
Ownership of the copyright, on the other hand, may still belong to the listed creator depending upon what license is
attached to the objects.

On 07/09/11 18:11, Kurt Reisler wrote:

> Confirmed. Using the save oar --profile <random URL> filename.oar resulted in the imported assets having the correct
> creator (that account name exists on both platforms), but the owner is still the person who did the importing (me). Is
> there any way to have both the creator and the owner set correctly if that name exists, even if the UUIDs are different
> across platforms?
>
> So, that is a 50% solution.
>
> Thanks
> Kurt
>
> On 9/4/2011 3:21 PM, Oren Hurvitz wrote:
>> When you save an OAR and use the "--profile" option, the resulting XML
>> contains an additional field for each item: "CreatorData". This field
>> contains the URL of your site's profile server (which isn't actually used,
>> so it can be anything), and the creator's name.
>>
>> When you load an OAR that contains this information:
>> 1. If the creator's UUID exists on the grid then it's used.
>> 2. Otherwise, if a user with the same *name* as the creator exists then that
>> user's UUID is used.
>> 3. Otherwise, the importing user becomes the creator (this is the most
>> common outcome).
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context:
>> http://opensim-users.2152040.n2.nabble.com/Retaining-correct-creator-owner-when-moving-OARs-between-stand-alone-simulators-tp6754685p6759048.html
>>
>> Sent from the opensim-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


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Re: Retaining correct creator/owner when moving OARs between stand-alone simulators.

Cider Jack
This makes perfect sense to me. No reason for the creator to be the
owner when the creator might not even exist on the new grid. Also
keeps the permissions functional, as mentioned.

On a related note though, I'm a bit concerned whether I'm reading this right:
"2. Otherwise, if a user with the same *name* as the creator exists then that
user's UUID is used."

I'm reading this to mean that if an avatar name of "John Jones"
creates an object on SoaS, then someone uploads the oar/iar to
something like OSGrid, ReactionGrid, whathaveyou, where there is a
completely random/unrelated avatar on that grid named "John Jones".
This means that the second John Jones is shown as creator, even though
they have nothing to do with it?

This might be a concern not only for the original creator potentially
losing credit, but it seems it might open a simple exploit for
griefing purposes. Say that John Jones on OSGrid has nothing to do
with an obscene/illegal item that was imported. They could be held
accountable for something they have absolutely nothing to do with.
Even if their name is cleared with the grid manager (shouldn't take
much investigation, as the object's owner name would be a good place
to start), their wider reputation on (and off) that grid could be
irreparably damaged. For avatars using RL names this could potentially
impact their RL.

But then again, perhaps I haven't properly grasped how this works.
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Re: Retaining correct creator/owner when moving OARs between stand-alone simulators.

justincc
On 09/09/11 03:44, Cider Jack wrote:

> This makes perfect sense to me. No reason for the creator to be the
> owner when the creator might not even exist on the new grid. Also
> keeps the permissions functional, as mentioned.
>
> On a related note though, I'm a bit concerned whether I'm reading this right:
> "2. Otherwise, if a user with the same *name* as the creator exists then that
> user's UUID is used."
>
> I'm reading this to mean that if an avatar name of "John Jones"
> creates an object on SoaS, then someone uploads the oar/iar to
> something like OSGrid, ReactionGrid, whathaveyou, where there is a
> completely random/unrelated avatar on that grid named "John Jones".
> This means that the second John Jones is shown as creator, even though
> they have nothing to do with it?
>
> This might be a concern not only for the original creator potentially
> losing credit, but it seems it might open a simple exploit for
> griefing purposes. Say that John Jones on OSGrid has nothing to do
> with an obscene/illegal item that was imported. They could be held
> accountable for something they have absolutely nothing to do with.
> Even if their name is cleared with the grid manager (shouldn't take
> much investigation, as the object's owner name would be a good place
> to start), their wider reputation on (and off) that grid could be
> irreparably damaged. For avatars using RL names this could potentially
> impact their RL.
>
> But then again, perhaps I haven't properly grasped how this works.

The name lookup used to happen and still will with old OARs that use a different resolution method (OSPA).  I think this
was last used back in 0.6.9.  For recent opensim, only a UUID lookup is done - if a simple string creator name is used
then there's no attempt to reassociate it with a user account.

I think overly trusting user names on grids is a mistake - after all, anybody person could create an account with that
name and associate bad content with it.  And to be honest, the SL mechanisms were never designed with this kind of
content transfer to third party grids in mind.

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Re: Retaining correct creator/owner when moving OARs between stand-alone simulators.

Marcus Alexander Link
How about a non-profit User/Creator Registry service -
comparable with the Domain Name System (DNS)...

M.

On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 2:32 AM, Justin Clark-Casey
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 09/09/11 03:44, Cider Jack wrote:
>>
>> This makes perfect sense to me. No reason for the creator to be the
>> owner when the creator might not even exist on the new grid. Also
>> keeps the permissions functional, as mentioned.
>>
>> On a related note though, I'm a bit concerned whether I'm reading this
>> right:
>> "2. Otherwise, if a user with the same *name* as the creator exists then
>> that
>> user's UUID is used."
>>
>> I'm reading this to mean that if an avatar name of "John Jones"
>> creates an object on SoaS, then someone uploads the oar/iar to
>> something like OSGrid, ReactionGrid, whathaveyou, where there is a
>> completely random/unrelated avatar on that grid named "John Jones".
>> This means that the second John Jones is shown as creator, even though
>> they have nothing to do with it?
>>
>> This might be a concern not only for the original creator potentially
>> losing credit, but it seems it might open a simple exploit for
>> griefing purposes. Say that John Jones on OSGrid has nothing to do
>> with an obscene/illegal item that was imported. They could be held
>> accountable for something they have absolutely nothing to do with.
>> Even if their name is cleared with the grid manager (shouldn't take
>> much investigation, as the object's owner name would be a good place
>> to start), their wider reputation on (and off) that grid could be
>> irreparably damaged. For avatars using RL names this could potentially
>> impact their RL.
>>
>> But then again, perhaps I haven't properly grasped how this works.
>
> The name lookup used to happen and still will with old OARs that use a
> different resolution method (OSPA).  I think this was last used back in
> 0.6.9.  For recent opensim, only a UUID lookup is done - if a simple string
> creator name is used then there's no attempt to reassociate it with a user
> account.
>
> I think overly trusting user names on grids is a mistake - after all,
> anybody person could create an account with that name and associate bad
> content with it.  And to be honest, the SL mechanisms were never designed
> with this kind of content transfer to third party grids in mind.
>
> --
> Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
> http://justincc.org/blog
> http://twitter.com/justincc
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
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Re: Retaining correct creator/owner when moving OARs between stand-alone simulators.

M.E. Verhagen
Stand alone simulator do not require an internet connection and can be
run on a local lan, so they cannot check with an external registry
service.


2011/9/10, Marcus Alexander Link <[hidden email]>:

> How about a non-profit User/Creator Registry service -
> comparable with the Domain Name System (DNS)...
>
> M.
>
> On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 2:32 AM, Justin Clark-Casey
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On 09/09/11 03:44, Cider Jack wrote:
>>>
>>> This makes perfect sense to me. No reason for the creator to be the
>>> owner when the creator might not even exist on the new grid. Also
>>> keeps the permissions functional, as mentioned.
>>>
>>> On a related note though, I'm a bit concerned whether I'm reading this
>>> right:
>>> "2. Otherwise, if a user with the same *name* as the creator exists then
>>> that
>>> user's UUID is used."
>>>
>>> I'm reading this to mean that if an avatar name of "John Jones"
>>> creates an object on SoaS, then someone uploads the oar/iar to
>>> something like OSGrid, ReactionGrid, whathaveyou, where there is a
>>> completely random/unrelated avatar on that grid named "John Jones".
>>> This means that the second John Jones is shown as creator, even though
>>> they have nothing to do with it?
>>>
>>> This might be a concern not only for the original creator potentially
>>> losing credit, but it seems it might open a simple exploit for
>>> griefing purposes. Say that John Jones on OSGrid has nothing to do
>>> with an obscene/illegal item that was imported. They could be held
>>> accountable for something they have absolutely nothing to do with.
>>> Even if their name is cleared with the grid manager (shouldn't take
>>> much investigation, as the object's owner name would be a good place
>>> to start), their wider reputation on (and off) that grid could be
>>> irreparably damaged. For avatars using RL names this could potentially
>>> impact their RL.
>>>
>>> But then again, perhaps I haven't properly grasped how this works.
>>
>> The name lookup used to happen and still will with old OARs that use a
>> different resolution method (OSPA).  I think this was last used back in
>> 0.6.9.  For recent opensim, only a UUID lookup is done - if a simple
>> string
>> creator name is used then there's no attempt to reassociate it with a user
>> account.
>>
>> I think overly trusting user names on grids is a mistake - after all,
>> anybody person could create an account with that name and associate bad
>> content with it.  And to be honest, the SL mechanisms were never designed
>> with this kind of content transfer to third party grids in mind.
>>
>> --
>> Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
>> http://justincc.org/blog
>> http://twitter.com/justincc
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: Retaining correct creator/owner when moving OARs between stand-alone simulators.

Karen Palen
In reply to this post by justincc
I agree with you!

I use the name "Karen Palen" on at least a dozen grids, each with
content that I have created on my private standalone. Often there are
local "tweaks" suited to the local grid.

Typically (but not always any more) the items were uploaded via Second
Inventory or a Viewer based XML file so the "owner" is the local
"Karen". In several instances recently though I have used hypergrid for
my standalone "Karen" to visit a "Karen" on another grid to transfer items.

Name collisions of this kind would be very hard to resolve even without
any "evil intent"!

Karen

On 09/09/2011 05:32 PM, Justin Clark-Casey wrote:

>
> I think overly trusting user names on grids is a mistake - after all,
> anybody person could create an account with that name and associate bad
> content with it.  And to be honest, the SL mechanisms were never
> designed with this kind of content transfer to third party grids in mind.
>
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Re: Retaining correct creator/owner when moving OARs between stand-alone simulators.

Cider Jack
Re: name collisions (I like that terminology)
Additionally, a skilled professional builder in-world would have his
reputation tarnished if someone were to upload poor-quality goods with
the same creator name. Again, this wouldn't require any 'evil intent',
the uploader may just be completely unaware of the other builder.

I don't mean to spread FUD (really!), but I do think it's something to
keep in mind. I'm very happy to see the introduction of the --profile
switch. It's a major step in the right direction and much better than
nothing, but it's not yet a complete solution. And really, name
collisions, at least those with any notable consequences, would be
extremely rare I expect.

I hold hope that since the 6-month wall has been removed between
viewer & server development, we can expect to see workable solutions
eventually. I'm looking forward to things like "Next owner can/cannot
transfer this off-grid" checkbox permissions! Ideally including a CC
permission drop-down box on objects/textures, to select the
appropriate CC license (perhaps providing the appropriate link?), as
well as including Public Domain & traditional copyright on that list.
Something similar for scripts with GPL, BSD, whathaveyou... /me keeps
dreaming...

@Justin
I agree that "overly trusting user names on grids is a mistake",
though some people's professional reputations depend in large part on
their avatar names (whether using their RL name or not). Jokay
Wollongong and Pathfinder Lester are a couple that come to mind
immediately. Virtual worlds really are a "second life" in more ways
than one, and as time & technology progress, will become more tightly
intertwined & harder to separate from our first. Though I'm sure I
don't need to tell you, of all people! :)

Cheers,
~!CJ

On 9/12/11, Karen Palen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I agree with you!
>
> I use the name "Karen Palen" on at least a dozen grids, each with
> content that I have created on my private standalone. Often there are
> local "tweaks" suited to the local grid.
>
> Typically (but not always any more) the items were uploaded via Second
> Inventory or a Viewer based XML file so the "owner" is the local
> "Karen". In several instances recently though I have used hypergrid for
> my standalone "Karen" to visit a "Karen" on another grid to transfer items.
>
> Name collisions of this kind would be very hard to resolve even without
> any "evil intent"!
>
> Karen
>
> On 09/09/2011 05:32 PM, Justin Clark-Casey wrote:
>
>>
>> I think overly trusting user names on grids is a mistake - after all,
>> anybody person could create an account with that name and associate bad
>> content with it.  And to be honest, the SL mechanisms were never
>> designed with this kind of content transfer to third party grids in mind.
>>
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
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Re: Retaining correct creator/owner when moving OARs between stand-alone simulators.

Karen Palen
I am waiting to see what happens when the Sim-World and Avatar Hangout
merge comes on line in (supposedly) 9 days from now.
http://www.sim-world.org/

"Karen Palen" has account on BOTH grids, and as far as the operators of
the grids know there is NO relationship between the two! The DO have
similar (but not identical) inventories.

In fact both inventories are derived from my private standalone sim
where I do all of my building. However NEITHER grid operator has any way
to know or verify this!

Over the years I have become an expert on "name collisions" in my
professional work. Mostly because they are so easy to produce without
intending to (who would EVER merge THOSE two projects????) and in many
cases they are impossible to resolve properly.

At the VR level it is bad enough, but when you merge two huge
engineering projects (say two jet fighter designs - think F14 and F15)
each with a couple of TERRABYTES of design information which may or may
not use the same names for different things ...

I have seen several $1B+ projects (government AND private) abandoned
because of this problem. Of COURSE the "finger pointing" never
acknowledged this, but the workers know all!

When you add "evil intent" to the mix you open a whole host of added
possibilities!

According to one of the "less reputable" blogs I monitor, forging Torley
Linden" as creator of copybotted items in Second Life is now the "latest
thing".

They seem to rotate between various Lindens and various Second Life
personalities (whom I don't know) as "hated bad guy of the day". The
actual "debate" is about who to target next.

I am SO glad that circus has not YET migrated to OpenSimulator!

Karen

On 09/11/2011 03:52 PM, Cider Jack wrote:

> Re: name collisions (I like that terminology)
> Additionally, a skilled professional builder in-world would have his
> reputation tarnished if someone were to upload poor-quality goods with
> the same creator name. Again, this wouldn't require any 'evil intent',
> the uploader may just be completely unaware of the other builder.
>
> I don't mean to spread FUD (really!), but I do think it's something to
> keep in mind. I'm very happy to see the introduction of the --profile
> switch. It's a major step in the right direction and much better than
> nothing, but it's not yet a complete solution. And really, name
> collisions, at least those with any notable consequences, would be
> extremely rare I expect.
>
> I hold hope that since the 6-month wall has been removed between
> viewer & server development, we can expect to see workable solutions
> eventually. I'm looking forward to things like "Next owner can/cannot
> transfer this off-grid" checkbox permissions! Ideally including a CC
> permission drop-down box on objects/textures, to select the
> appropriate CC license (perhaps providing the appropriate link?), as
> well as including Public Domain & traditional copyright on that list.
> Something similar for scripts with GPL, BSD, whathaveyou... /me keeps
> dreaming...
>
> @Justin
> I agree that "overly trusting user names on grids is a mistake",
> though some people's professional reputations depend in large part on
> their avatar names (whether using their RL name or not). Jokay
> Wollongong and Pathfinder Lester are a couple that come to mind
> immediately. Virtual worlds really are a "second life" in more ways
> than one, and as time & technology progress, will become more tightly
> intertwined & harder to separate from our first. Though I'm sure I
> don't need to tell you, of all people! :)
>
> Cheers,
> ~!CJ
>
> On 9/12/11, Karen Palen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I agree with you!
>>
>> I use the name "Karen Palen" on at least a dozen grids, each with
>> content that I have created on my private standalone. Often there are
>> local "tweaks" suited to the local grid.
>>
>> Typically (but not always any more) the items were uploaded via Second
>> Inventory or a Viewer based XML file so the "owner" is the local
>> "Karen". In several instances recently though I have used hypergrid for
>> my standalone "Karen" to visit a "Karen" on another grid to transfer items.
>>
>> Name collisions of this kind would be very hard to resolve even without
>> any "evil intent"!
>>
>> Karen
>>
>> On 09/09/2011 05:32 PM, Justin Clark-Casey wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I think overly trusting user names on grids is a mistake - after all,
>>> anybody person could create an account with that name and associate bad
>>> content with it.  And to be honest, the SL mechanisms were never
>>> designed with this kind of content transfer to third party grids in mind.
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
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