Some questions about recreating history in OpenSim

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Some questions about recreating history in OpenSim

Lisa Evans
Hi all,

I'm very new to OpenSim and just signed up to this list to ask a few questions. Sorry if I come across as a bit of a newbie, although I've been studying OS for a few days and I have my own standalone grid up and running at home.

I'm putting together a proposal for this educational portal run by the ABC here in Australia:

http://www.abc.net.au/learn/proposals.htm

My project is all about teaching history, the idea being that students and history classes could put together simple sims telling stories about the history of their own local area, linking them up with videos, photos, essays, etc (which you could hopefully launch from within the sim). Their sims would all be linked up in a hypergrid, so students from all over Australia (later maybe the world) could get into a virtual time machine and visit different places at different times, to see what was happening. Students would be able to chat with each other and show each other around their creations. Hopefully the act of collaborative world building would engage them in learning about history, but I would want them focussed on just telling small stories, involving a small number of characters (which would be created as NPCs if that's possible, with simple, looping animations if not more complex behaviour) and buildings, objects, etc. (I have ideas about how to source lots of 3D content, which I need to explore more).

I'm sure none of this is an original idea, but it seems like a good opportunity to put an idea like this forward. I just was wondering if anyone could tell me whether it would work in OpenSim or if there are some big barriers to creating something like this.

My main issue right now is trying to work out how you create sims that represent not only a region in space but also a period in time. I've been thinking that I would have a grid that contains regions in which only stories from, say, 1950 to 2000 were created. Then another grid would represent the same real world area, but contain stories from 1900-1950. The further you go back in time, the longer the time intervals would get, along an approximately logarithmic scale, so if you were telling stories about the dinosaurs one grid would represent the entire Jurassic era, for example.

Would this be the right way to go? I've been reading about regions and grids and hypergrids but I'm pretty sure there's a lot I don't understand.

My own background is that I've been working in 3D animation for film, TV and games for the past decade, as a 3D all rounder and a technical artist. I've worked on one big MMO for three years that was never released. So I know about 3D modeling, animation, worldbuilding, etc. but I've never spent much time around Second Life or OpenSim, so a lot of this is new to me.

Thanks for any help!

Cheers,

Lisa Evans

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Re: Some questions about recreating history in OpenSim

Sarge Misfit
Hi Lisa, and welcome to the MetaVerse.

While my own tastes run to future tech sci-fi, I can tell you that there are others who have and are building historical and geographical recreations. Research is going to be your biggest job right now. And there are lots of resources. Check out HyperGrid Business http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/ Maria has a lot of resources listed in various articles. Ener Hax at http://iliveisl.com/ is building Enclave Harbour which will be used to conduct virtual field trips for students. She blogs daily on a wide variety of things. On my site, Excelsior Station, I have lists of bloggers, content providers and more, though they are not comprehensive. Its just a place to start.

And you can pretty well count on others responding with help, too.

Good luck

Sarge

On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Lisa Evans <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all,

I'm very new to OpenSim and just signed up to this list to ask a few questions. Sorry if I come across as a bit of a newbie, although I've been studying OS for a few days and I have my own standalone grid up and running at home.

I'm putting together a proposal for this educational portal run by the ABC here in Australia:

http://www.abc.net.au/learn/proposals.htm

My project is all about teaching history, the idea being that students and history classes could put together simple sims telling stories about the history of their own local area, linking them up with videos, photos, essays, etc (which you could hopefully launch from within the sim). Their sims would all be linked up in a hypergrid, so students from all over Australia (later maybe the world) could get into a virtual time machine and visit different places at different times, to see what was happening. Students would be able to chat with each other and show each other around their creations. Hopefully the act of collaborative world building would engage them in learning about history, but I would want them focussed on just telling small stories, involving a small number of characters (which would be created as NPCs if that's possible, with simple, looping animations if not more complex behaviour) and buildings, objects, etc. (I have ideas about how to source lots of 3D content, which I need to explore more).

I'm sure none of this is an original idea, but it seems like a good opportunity to put an idea like this forward. I just was wondering if anyone could tell me whether it would work in OpenSim or if there are some big barriers to creating something like this.

My main issue right now is trying to work out how you create sims that represent not only a region in space but also a period in time. I've been thinking that I would have a grid that contains regions in which only stories from, say, 1950 to 2000 were created. Then another grid would represent the same real world area, but contain stories from 1900-1950. The further you go back in time, the longer the time intervals would get, along an approximately logarithmic scale, so if you were telling stories about the dinosaurs one grid would represent the entire Jurassic era, for example.

Would this be the right way to go? I've been reading about regions and grids and hypergrids but I'm pretty sure there's a lot I don't understand.

My own background is that I've been working in 3D animation for film, TV and games for the past decade, as a 3D all rounder and a technical artist. I've worked on one big MMO for three years that was never released. So I know about 3D modeling, animation, worldbuilding, etc. but I've never spent much time around Second Life or OpenSim, so a lot of this is new to me.

Thanks for any help!

Cheers,

Lisa Evans

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Re: Some questions about recreating history in OpenSim

core
Welcome to the extended virtual family Lisa :)

My first suggestion (if you haven't already done so) is to sign up with an OpenSim grid and begin exploring.  My personal recommendation would be OSGrid (http://www.osgrid.org/).  It's the largest and oldest and has a wide variety of established regions to visit.  It's also the main testing grid for OpenSim users and developers so pretty much anyone who knows anything about OS is there at one time or another.  There are many helpful people around who can give you advice and help get you started.  Ther are also tons of freebies and building tools there too ;)

Sarge's links are also a great place to start.  Excelsior Station and Enclave Harbour are two of the most ambitious and impressive undertakings in OpenSim at the moment.  Good examples of just how far you can take your ideas and apply them effectively.

There is also a sister mailing list to this one aimed at educators which is populated by many of the same users here.  The info:
Education mailing list
[hidden email]
http://list.opensim-edu.org/listinfo.cgi/education-opensim-edu.org
Good luck with your endeavors and I hope to see you around the metaverse.

- core

On 8/19/2012 1:31 PM, Sarge Misfit wrote:
Hi Lisa, and welcome to the MetaVerse.

While my own tastes run to future tech sci-fi, I can tell you that there are others who have and are building historical and geographical recreations. Research is going to be your biggest job right now. And there are lots of resources. Check out HyperGrid Business http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/ Maria has a lot of resources listed in various articles. Ener Hax at http://iliveisl.com/ is building Enclave Harbour which will be used to conduct virtual field trips for students. She blogs daily on a wide variety of things. On my site, Excelsior Station, I have lists of bloggers, content providers and more, though they are not comprehensive. Its just a place to start.

And you can pretty well count on others responding with help, too.

Good luck

Sarge

On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Lisa Evans <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all,

I'm very new to OpenSim and just signed up to this list to ask a few questions. Sorry if I come across as a bit of a newbie, although I've been studying OS for a few days and I have my own standalone grid up and running at home.

I'm putting together a proposal for this educational portal run by the ABC here in Australia:

http://www.abc.net.au/learn/proposals.htm

My project is all about teaching history, the idea being that students and history classes could put together simple sims telling stories about the history of their own local area, linking them up with videos, photos, essays, etc (which you could hopefully launch from within the sim). Their sims would all be linked up in a hypergrid, so students from all over Australia (later maybe the world) could get into a virtual time machine and visit different places at different times, to see what was happening. Students would be able to chat with each other and show each other around their creations. Hopefully the act of collaborative world building would engage them in learning about history, but I would want them focussed on just telling small stories, involving a small number of characters (which would be created as NPCs if that's possible, with simple, looping animations if not more complex behaviour) and buildings, objects, etc. (I have ideas about how to source lots of 3D content, which I need to explore more).

I'm sure none of this is an original idea, but it seems like a good opportunity to put an idea like this forward. I just was wondering if anyone could tell me whether it would work in OpenSim or if there are some big barriers to creating something like this.

My main issue right now is trying to work out how you create sims that represent not only a region in space but also a period in time. I've been thinking that I would have a grid that contains regions in which only stories from, say, 1950 to 2000 were created. Then another grid would represent the same real world area, but contain stories from 1900-1950. The further you go back in time, the longer the time intervals would get, along an approximately logarithmic scale, so if you were telling stories about the dinosaurs one grid would represent the entire Jurassic era, for example.

Would this be the right way to go? I've been reading about regions and grids and hypergrids but I'm pretty sure there's a lot I don't understand.

My own background is that I've been working in 3D animation for film, TV and games for the past decade, as a 3D all rounder and a technical artist. I've worked on one big MMO for three years that was never released. So I know about 3D modeling, animation, worldbuilding, etc. but I've never spent much time around Second Life or OpenSim, so a lot of this is new to me.

Thanks for any help!

Cheers,

Lisa Evans

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Re: Some questions about recreating history in OpenSim

MariaKorolov
In reply to this post by Lisa Evans
Sarge -- Thanks for the kind words!

Lisa -- 

Here are my recommendations, in order of difficulty:

1. Easiest and cheapest: go to http://www.kitely.com and sign up for the free six-hour introductory month, which comes with a free region. You will be asked to download a small plugin, then it will automatically install a viewer for you, create your region, and take you in-world. Easy, peasy. You can practice building, or upload any of the OARs available free to educators to start with. 

If you like it, $35 a month gives you unlimited use of Kitely, plus 20 (twenty!) regions. You can add extra regions for just $1 a month each. Each region can hold up to 100,000 prims and up to 100 simultaneous visitors. (No kidding! They run it in the Amazon cloud and the scaling is excellent.) For educators, it's the single best deal out there. Here's the downside: your visitors will get two hours a month free (six hours the first month) but after that they either have to sign up for a plan or pay 20 cents an hour for usage. Or you can opt to pay for their usage. 

Let's compare this to the Second Life deal, with $300 a month per region, and a $1,000 setup fee. For the $300 you can have something like eight users with unlimited use accounts (you, a couple of fellow teachers, the students doing the heavy building) and 8x20=160 regions and you can put the $1,000 you'd otherwise spend for a setup fee towards 300,000 minutes worth of access time for visitors. 

If you ever want to leave Kitely for any reason, you can export your entire regions (terrains, objects, scripts, everything on them that you have rights to) with a single click, and import them to anywhere else you want in a couple of minutes. They have Vivox voice (the same as Second Life), mesh, media-on-a-prim (to put interactive Web pages and videos on in-world surfaces) and megaregions. The only thing that's missing is hypergrid, and that's coming with the next hypergrid security update. They also have bots -- aka NPCs (non-player characters) -- which you can use to create robots that simulate historical characters and interact with your visitors. 

2. Easy, a bit less cheap, but more options: go to Dreamland Metaverse (http://www.dreamlandmetaverse.com/) or one of the other vendors in our hosting directory: http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/opensim-hosting-providers/  I particularly mention Dreamland because they have an excellent reputation with educators, all the latest OpenSim features, and are currently running the grids for a school district in suburban Atlanta. They can set you up with a private grid, or land on any of the open grids out there, including OSGrid. They can set it up so your teachers can hypergrid teleport to other grids, and your students can't. They can automatically create user accounts for all your students and teachers at once -- and there's lot of other custom stuff they can do, as well. They have moderate prices -- they're not the most expensive by far, nor the cheapest, but have a good reputation for reliability and service. And whle Kitely regions are only up when people are on them, and are put to sleep otherwise, Dreamland regions are up 24-7. While this means higher prices, it also means that visitors don't have to wait for a region to boot up when they first teleport to a sleeping region, which can take a minute.

3. Not easy at all, but free. You can run your own grids on your own servers. You will have to set up a MySQL database, and an Apache server, and the OpenSim server, and keep all of those patched and updated and regularly backed up. The easiest way to do that is to use New World Studio -- http://nws.virrea.fr/ --  which installs all of those for you automatically. You will still have to learn how to use the OpenSim management console, however, and, unless you hire a consultant, if you want to manage users or inventories or terrains or OAR files you will often have to go to the server console and type in server commands. The commands are here, to give you a taste: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Server_Commands

If all your visitors are local -- behind your school firewall -- then this will give you the fastest possible connections, since the OpenSim grid will be hosted right where the visitors are. Some of the OpenSim hosting companies will do by-the-hour consulting for you, helping you set up your first grid and installing and configuring routers and viewers and all that other messy stuff. And you can have as many regions, prims and simultaneous visitors as your network can bear -- which could be quite a lot, depending on your infrastructure. And if you want to allow remote logins, or hypergrid travel to and from other grids, you will need to configure it for hypergrid connectivity, and punch a hole in your network's firewall to allow the traffic to go through. 

Feel free to contact me directly if you have any additional questions!

Best,

-- Maria

____________________________________________________
Maria Korolov •  508-443-1130 • [hidden email]
Editor & Publisher, Hypergrid Business
 
The magazine for enterprise users of virtual worlds. 


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Re: Some questions about recreating history in OpenSim

Lisa Evans
In reply to this post by Sarge Misfit
Thanks for the links, they're very helpful!

On 08/20/2012 02:31 AM, Sarge Misfit wrote:
Hi Lisa, and welcome to the MetaVerse.

While my own tastes run to future tech sci-fi, I can tell you that there are others who have and are building historical and geographical recreations. Research is going to be your biggest job right now. And there are lots of resources. Check out HyperGrid Business http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/ Maria has a lot of resources listed in various articles. Ener Hax at http://iliveisl.com/ is building Enclave Harbour which will be used to conduct virtual field trips for students. She blogs daily on a wide variety of things. On my site, Excelsior Station, I have lists of bloggers, content providers and more, though they are not comprehensive. Its just a place to start.

And you can pretty well count on others responding with help, too.

Good luck

Sarge

On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Lisa Evans <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all,

I'm very new to OpenSim and just signed up to this list to ask a few questions. Sorry if I come across as a bit of a newbie, although I've been studying OS for a few days and I have my own standalone grid up and running at home.

I'm putting together a proposal for this educational portal run by the ABC here in Australia:

http://www.abc.net.au/learn/proposals.htm

My project is all about teaching history, the idea being that students and history classes could put together simple sims telling stories about the history of their own local area, linking them up with videos, photos, essays, etc (which you could hopefully launch from within the sim). Their sims would all be linked up in a hypergrid, so students from all over Australia (later maybe the world) could get into a virtual time machine and visit different places at different times, to see what was happening. Students would be able to chat with each other and show each other around their creations. Hopefully the act of collaborative world building would engage them in learning about history, but I would want them focussed on just telling small stories, involving a small number of characters (which would be created as NPCs if that's possible, with simple, looping animations if not more complex behaviour) and buildings, objects, etc. (I have ideas about how to source lots of 3D content, which I need to explore more).

I'm sure none of this is an original idea, but it seems like a good opportunity to put an idea like this forward. I just was wondering if anyone could tell me whether it would work in OpenSim or if there are some big barriers to creating something like this.

My main issue right now is trying to work out how you create sims that represent not only a region in space but also a period in time. I've been thinking that I would have a grid that contains regions in which only stories from, say, 1950 to 2000 were created. Then another grid would represent the same real world area, but contain stories from 1900-1950. The further you go back in time, the longer the time intervals would get, along an approximately logarithmic scale, so if you were telling stories about the dinosaurs one grid would represent the entire Jurassic era, for example.

Would this be the right way to go? I've been reading about regions and grids and hypergrids but I'm pretty sure there's a lot I don't understand.

My own background is that I've been working in 3D animation for film, TV and games for the past decade, as a 3D all rounder and a technical artist. I've worked on one big MMO for three years that was never released. So I know about 3D modeling, animation, worldbuilding, etc. but I've never spent much time around Second Life or OpenSim, so a lot of this is new to me.

Thanks for any help!

Cheers,

Lisa Evans

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Re: Some questions about recreating history in OpenSim

Lisa Evans
In reply to this post by core
Thanks for the warm welcome :). I will check out the Educators list as well.


On 08/20/2012 06:34 AM, core wrote:
Welcome to the extended virtual family Lisa :)

My first suggestion (if you haven't already done so) is to sign up with an OpenSim grid and begin exploring.  My personal recommendation would be OSGrid (http://www.osgrid.org/).  It's the largest and oldest and has a wide variety of established regions to visit.  It's also the main testing grid for OpenSim users and developers so pretty much anyone who knows anything about OS is there at one time or another.  There are many helpful people around who can give you advice and help get you started.  Ther are also tons of freebies and building tools there too ;)

Sarge's links are also a great place to start.  Excelsior Station and Enclave Harbour are two of the most ambitious and impressive undertakings in OpenSim at the moment.  Good examples of just how far you can take your ideas and apply them effectively.

There is also a sister mailing list to this one aimed at educators which is populated by many of the same users here.  The info:
Education mailing list
[hidden email]
http://list.opensim-edu.org/listinfo.cgi/education-opensim-edu.org
Good luck with your endeavors and I hope to see you around the metaverse.

- core

On 8/19/2012 1:31 PM, Sarge Misfit wrote:
Hi Lisa, and welcome to the MetaVerse.

While my own tastes run to future tech sci-fi, I can tell you that there are others who have and are building historical and geographical recreations. Research is going to be your biggest job right now. And there are lots of resources. Check out HyperGrid Business http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/ Maria has a lot of resources listed in various articles. Ener Hax at http://iliveisl.com/ is building Enclave Harbour which will be used to conduct virtual field trips for students. She blogs daily on a wide variety of things. On my site, Excelsior Station, I have lists of bloggers, content providers and more, though they are not comprehensive. Its just a place to start.

And you can pretty well count on others responding with help, too.

Good luck

Sarge

On Sun, Aug 19, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Lisa Evans <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all,

I'm very new to OpenSim and just signed up to this list to ask a few questions. Sorry if I come across as a bit of a newbie, although I've been studying OS for a few days and I have my own standalone grid up and running at home.

I'm putting together a proposal for this educational portal run by the ABC here in Australia:

http://www.abc.net.au/learn/proposals.htm

My project is all about teaching history, the idea being that students and history classes could put together simple sims telling stories about the history of their own local area, linking them up with videos, photos, essays, etc (which you could hopefully launch from within the sim). Their sims would all be linked up in a hypergrid, so students from all over Australia (later maybe the world) could get into a virtual time machine and visit different places at different times, to see what was happening. Students would be able to chat with each other and show each other around their creations. Hopefully the act of collaborative world building would engage them in learning about history, but I would want them focussed on just telling small stories, involving a small number of characters (which would be created as NPCs if that's possible, with simple, looping animations if not more complex behaviour) and buildings, objects, etc. (I have ideas about how to source lots of 3D content, which I need to explore more).

I'm sure none of this is an original idea, but it seems like a good opportunity to put an idea like this forward. I just was wondering if anyone could tell me whether it would work in OpenSim or if there are some big barriers to creating something like this.

My main issue right now is trying to work out how you create sims that represent not only a region in space but also a period in time. I've been thinking that I would have a grid that contains regions in which only stories from, say, 1950 to 2000 were created. Then another grid would represent the same real world area, but contain stories from 1900-1950. The further you go back in time, the longer the time intervals would get, along an approximately logarithmic scale, so if you were telling stories about the dinosaurs one grid would represent the entire Jurassic era, for example.

Would this be the right way to go? I've been reading about regions and grids and hypergrids but I'm pretty sure there's a lot I don't understand.

My own background is that I've been working in 3D animation for film, TV and games for the past decade, as a 3D all rounder and a technical artist. I've worked on one big MMO for three years that was never released. So I know about 3D modeling, animation, worldbuilding, etc. but I've never spent much time around Second Life or OpenSim, so a lot of this is new to me.

Thanks for any help!

Cheers,

Lisa Evans

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Re: Some questions about recreating history in OpenSim

Lisa Evans
In reply to this post by MariaKorolov
Hi Maria,

Thanks for all this information. I should have written more about the scheme I am writing a proposal for, rather than just link to it.

If this proposal is successful, the project will be funded up to $400,000 AU over three years, (and hopefully more funding after that, but otherwise we would have to find another source). Also, projects funded under this scheme have to be free for educational use within Australia, and they have to make use of the National Broadband Network, which is the very high speed broadband network our government is building Australia wide. Part of the reason for the education portal is to show it off and justify the expense!

So the only hosting solution that would fit all the requirements would be to build our own servers locally, so we get the highest speed possible under the NBN. And we could afford to pay the programmers/tech heads needed to set the hosting up, and run it for at least three years.

The project I have in mind is a bit bigger than just what OpenSim can provide under normal circumstances, and we would want to maybe fork one of the viewers out there and add some new features to it, using part of the budget. Hopefully what I'm intending would be useful to other educators and if the project wasn't funded beyond the three years, the development of the new viewer would continue (of course it would all be open source). The features we would add would be specific to teaching history through virtual worlds, and teaching in general.

So I would love to talk to someone about my original questions regarding structuring historical sims that exist not just in three dimensional space but also back and forth along a timeline. I've studied a fair bit of general relativity back when I was doing my physics degree, so I can kind of handle thinking in four dimensions, but this is still a bit tricky, lol.

On 08/20/2012 08:47 AM, Maria Korolov wrote:
Sarge -- Thanks for the kind words!

Lisa -- 

Here are my recommendations, in order of difficulty:

1. Easiest and cheapest: go to http://www.kitely.com and sign up for the free six-hour introductory month, which comes with a free region. You will be asked to download a small plugin, then it will automatically install a viewer for you, create your region, and take you in-world. Easy, peasy. You can practice building, or upload any of the OARs available free to educators to start with. 

If you like it, $35 a month gives you unlimited use of Kitely, plus 20 (twenty!) regions. You can add extra regions for just $1 a month each. Each region can hold up to 100,000 prims and up to 100 simultaneous visitors. (No kidding! They run it in the Amazon cloud and the scaling is excellent.) For educators, it's the single best deal out there. Here's the downside: your visitors will get two hours a month free (six hours the first month) but after that they either have to sign up for a plan or pay 20 cents an hour for usage. Or you can opt to pay for their usage. 

Let's compare this to the Second Life deal, with $300 a month per region, and a $1,000 setup fee. For the $300 you can have something like eight users with unlimited use accounts (you, a couple of fellow teachers, the students doing the heavy building) and 8x20=160 regions and you can put the $1,000 you'd otherwise spend for a setup fee towards 300,000 minutes worth of access time for visitors. 

If you ever want to leave Kitely for any reason, you can export your entire regions (terrains, objects, scripts, everything on them that you have rights to) with a single click, and import them to anywhere else you want in a couple of minutes. They have Vivox voice (the same as Second Life), mesh, media-on-a-prim (to put interactive Web pages and videos on in-world surfaces) and megaregions. The only thing that's missing is hypergrid, and that's coming with the next hypergrid security update. They also have bots -- aka NPCs (non-player characters) -- which you can use to create robots that simulate historical characters and interact with your visitors. 

2. Easy, a bit less cheap, but more options: go to Dreamland Metaverse (http://www.dreamlandmetaverse.com/) or one of the other vendors in our hosting directory: http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/opensim-hosting-providers/  I particularly mention Dreamland because they have an excellent reputation with educators, all the latest OpenSim features, and are currently running the grids for a school district in suburban Atlanta. They can set you up with a private grid, or land on any of the open grids out there, including OSGrid. They can set it up so your teachers can hypergrid teleport to other grids, and your students can't. They can automatically create user accounts for all your students and teachers at once -- and there's lot of other custom stuff they can do, as well. They have moderate prices -- they're not the most expensive by far, nor the cheapest, but have a good reputation for reliability and service. And whle Kitely regions are only up when people are on them, and are put to sleep otherwise, Dreamland regions are up 24-7. While this means higher prices, it also means that visitors don't have to wait for a region to boot up when they first teleport to a sleeping region, which can take a minute.

3. Not easy at all, but free. You can run your own grids on your own servers. You will have to set up a MySQL database, and an Apache server, and the OpenSim server, and keep all of those patched and updated and regularly backed up. The easiest way to do that is to use New World Studio -- http://nws.virrea.fr/ --  which installs all of those for you automatically. You will still have to learn how to use the OpenSim management console, however, and, unless you hire a consultant, if you want to manage users or inventories or terrains or OAR files you will often have to go to the server console and type in server commands. The commands are here, to give you a taste: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Server_Commands

If all your visitors are local -- behind your school firewall -- then this will give you the fastest possible connections, since the OpenSim grid will be hosted right where the visitors are. Some of the OpenSim hosting companies will do by-the-hour consulting for you, helping you set up your first grid and installing and configuring routers and viewers and all that other messy stuff. And you can have as many regions, prims and simultaneous visitors as your network can bear -- which could be quite a lot, depending on your infrastructure. And if you want to allow remote logins, or hypergrid travel to and from other grids, you will need to configure it for hypergrid connectivity, and punch a hole in your network's firewall to allow the traffic to go through. 

Feel free to contact me directly if you have any additional questions!

Best,

-- Maria

____________________________________________________
Maria Korolov •  508-443-1130 • [hidden email]
Editor & Publisher, Hypergrid Business
 
The magazine for enterprise users of virtual worlds. 



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Re: Some questions about recreating history in OpenSim

chris
In reply to this post by Lisa Evans
Hi Lisa,

nice idea. There was a similar UWA educational research proposal for teaching ancient greek using opensim/SL. The idea was to immerse students in the culture of the time as well as communicate/learn in ancient greek. That one did not get funded but it may be a good idea to join forces with such educators and not only go for the ABC grant but also an ARC - industry linkage grant.  I can put you in contact with those ppl if interested.

Another link suggestion if you wish to meet educators is on the jokaydiagrid - a relatively inexpensive grid if you want to meet educators and learn at the same time- see:

Another thing to consider is sloodle: an integration of the open source Moodle educational course tools with SL sims. It has its limitations but does provide a good way to develop Web based courses with a sim. I suggest cross media is the best way to go - not just relying on opensim but do Web/sim/film/machinima - which it seems you are already thinking - am I right?

My main experience in this area is in SL and Moodle (both deparately and combined) but I am doing a little edu project in opensim too atm. Over the next year I plan to move stuff from SL to opensim so maybe I will meet you on a grid sometime :)

cheers,

chris

On 20 August 2012 01:18, Lisa Evans <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all,

I'm very new to OpenSim and just signed up to this list to ask a few questions. Sorry if I come across as a bit of a newbie, although I've been studying OS for a few days and I have my own standalone grid up and running at home.

I'm putting together a proposal for this educational portal run by the ABC here in Australia:

http://www.abc.net.au/learn/proposals.htm

My project is all about teaching history, the idea being that students and history classes could put together simple sims telling stories about the history of their own local area, linking them up with videos, photos, essays, etc (which you could hopefully launch from within the sim). Their sims would all be linked up in a hypergrid, so students from all over Australia (later maybe the world) could get into a virtual time machine and visit different places at different times, to see what was happening. Students would be able to chat with each other and show each other around their creations. Hopefully the act of collaborative world building would engage them in learning about history, but I would want them focussed on just telling small stories, involving a small number of characters (which would be created as NPCs if that's possible, with simple, looping animations if not more complex behaviour) and buildings, objects, etc. (I have ideas about how to source lots of 3D content, which I need to explore more).

I'm sure none of this is an original idea, but it seems like a good opportunity to put an idea like this forward. I just was wondering if anyone could tell me whether it would work in OpenSim or if there are some big barriers to creating something like this.

My main issue right now is trying to work out how you create sims that represent not only a region in space but also a period in time. I've been thinking that I would have a grid that contains regions in which only stories from, say, 1950 to 2000 were created. Then another grid would represent the same real world area, but contain stories from 1900-1950. The further you go back in time, the longer the time intervals would get, along an approximately logarithmic scale, so if you were telling stories about the dinosaurs one grid would represent the entire Jurassic era, for example.

Would this be the right way to go? I've been reading about regions and grids and hypergrids but I'm pretty sure there's a lot I don't understand.

My own background is that I've been working in 3D animation for film, TV and games for the past decade, as a 3D all rounder and a technical artist. I've worked on one big MMO for three years that was never released. So I know about 3D modeling, animation, worldbuilding, etc. but I've never spent much time around Second Life or OpenSim, so a lot of this is new to me.

Thanks for any help!

Cheers,

Lisa Evans

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http://www.vrshed.com
http://www.floatingorigin.com



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Re: Some questions about recreating history in OpenSim

Lisa Evans
Hi Chris,

Thanks for that! I'm pretty sure we already know each other, years ago at the FTI during the CADSAGAP course? Am I thinking of the right person? I was hoping I would run into some local people as I did my research on this! Yes, I definitely want to talk to people at UWA, I need some input from teachers and/or academics in this area. It helps that my father is both a science teacher and a computer programmer, so he's helping me out, but someone who has done more work on using virtual worlds in education would be very, very helpful for my application :)

I'm definitely thinking of cross media, because I think focussing on 3D worldbuilding could become a bit of a distraction from actually learning, once you get past a certain point of complexity. I just want the virtual space to be a meeting place, and to help give context, kind of like a museum exhibition or a diorama representing a story from history. The rest of the story, and discussion about different historical sources, would be in more traditional text format, along with videos, photos, etc. I kind of imagine that each story within the virtual world would be accompanied by a discussion page the same way articles in Wikipedia are, where students can argue their case for why they believe the event happened in one particular way rather than another. There would of course be differences of opinion, maybe multiple accounts of the same event. But that's what history really is - the competition between different accounts and interpretations, not just a series of facts.

So it sounds like Moodle would be a great addition to this project! Thanks for suggesting it. I'm looking out for people I can add to my team, at least for the purposes of the application (you have to list your team members and have a two page CV for each one), so if you're available for that it could be a great help. If we then get funding you can see how much time you could put into consulting work for us.

Cheers,

Lisa

On 08/20/2012 12:47 PM, chris wrote:
Hi Lisa,

nice idea. There was a similar UWA educational research proposal for teaching ancient greek using opensim/SL. The idea was to immerse students in the culture of the time as well as communicate/learn in ancient greek. That one did not get funded but it may be a good idea to join forces with such educators and not only go for the ABC grant but also an ARC - industry linkage grant.  I can put you in contact with those ppl if interested.

Another link suggestion if you wish to meet educators is on the jokaydiagrid - a relatively inexpensive grid if you want to meet educators and learn at the same time- see:

Another thing to consider is sloodle: an integration of the open source Moodle educational course tools with SL sims. It has its limitations but does provide a good way to develop Web based courses with a sim. I suggest cross media is the best way to go - not just relying on opensim but do Web/sim/film/machinima - which it seems you are already thinking - am I right?

My main experience in this area is in SL and Moodle (both deparately and combined) but I am doing a little edu project in opensim too atm. Over the next year I plan to move stuff from SL to opensim so maybe I will meet you on a grid sometime :)

cheers,

chris

On 20 August 2012 01:18, Lisa Evans <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all,

I'm very new to OpenSim and just signed up to this list to ask a few questions. Sorry if I come across as a bit of a newbie, although I've been studying OS for a few days and I have my own standalone grid up and running at home.

I'm putting together a proposal for this educational portal run by the ABC here in Australia:

http://www.abc.net.au/learn/proposals.htm

My project is all about teaching history, the idea being that students and history classes could put together simple sims telling stories about the history of their own local area, linking them up with videos, photos, essays, etc (which you could hopefully launch from within the sim). Their sims would all be linked up in a hypergrid, so students from all over Australia (later maybe the world) could get into a virtual time machine and visit different places at different times, to see what was happening. Students would be able to chat with each other and show each other around their creations. Hopefully the act of collaborative world building would engage them in learning about history, but I would want them focussed on just telling small stories, involving a small number of characters (which would be created as NPCs if that's possible, with simple, looping animations if not more complex behaviour) and buildings, objects, etc. (I have ideas about how to source lots of 3D content, which I need to explore more).

I'm sure none of this is an original idea, but it seems like a good opportunity to put an idea like this forward. I just was wondering if anyone could tell me whether it would work in OpenSim or if there are some big barriers to creating something like this.

My main issue right now is trying to work out how you create sims that represent not only a region in space but also a period in time. I've been thinking that I would have a grid that contains regions in which only stories from, say, 1950 to 2000 were created. Then another grid would represent the same real world area, but contain stories from 1900-1950. The further you go back in time, the longer the time intervals would get, along an approximately logarithmic scale, so if you were telling stories about the dinosaurs one grid would represent the entire Jurassic era, for example.

Would this be the right way to go? I've been reading about regions and grids and hypergrids but I'm pretty sure there's a lot I don't understand.

My own background is that I've been working in 3D animation for film, TV and games for the past decade, as a 3D all rounder and a technical artist. I've worked on one big MMO for three years that was never released. So I know about 3D modeling, animation, worldbuilding, etc. but I've never spent much time around Second Life or OpenSim, so a lot of this is new to me.

Thanks for any help!

Cheers,

Lisa Evans

_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



--

Dr Chris Thorne


http://www.vrshed.com
http://www.floatingorigin.com




_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


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Re: Some questions about recreating history in OpenSim

jokay Wollongong
HI Lisa and all,

Just sharing, as I thought it might be of interest...  we (at jokaydiaGRID)  actually developed a historical build with the History Teachers Association of Victoria last year! You can find out more about it here -  http://virtualhistorycentre.com/ . Essentially the project focussed on making a virtual replica of the Point Nepean Quarantine Station in Victoria and additionally a museum which provides virtual worlds access to a range of research materials and resources for students to explore. There are also a number of quests built into the environment to encourage students to explore, reflect and recreate content to add to the build. You can view additional pictures of the here - http://www.flickr.com/photos/jokay/sets/72157631154100902/

Unfortunatey its had limited use so far because of the ongoing challenges of opening ports in educational environments in Australia (shake fist at firewall of doom), but it has had some limited use by students in Victoria and we're currently working on various Sim on a stick options et al. Additionally, we're hoping it will be open to the public via jokaydiaGRID very soon... will keep you posted! ;) 

Kind regards,
jokay
Director, jokadiaGRID / Co-Founder Massively Minecraft







On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Lisa Evans <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Chris,

Thanks for that! I'm pretty sure we already know each other, years ago at the FTI during the CADSAGAP course? Am I thinking of the right person? I was hoping I would run into some local people as I did my research on this! Yes, I definitely want to talk to people at UWA, I need some input from teachers and/or academics in this area. It helps that my father is both a science teacher and a computer programmer, so he's helping me out, but someone who has done more work on using virtual worlds in education would be very, very helpful for my application :)

I'm definitely thinking of cross media, because I think focussing on 3D worldbuilding could become a bit of a distraction from actually learning, once you get past a certain point of complexity. I just want the virtual space to be a meeting place, and to help give context, kind of like a museum exhibition or a diorama representing a story from history. The rest of the story, and discussion about different historical sources, would be in more traditional text format, along with videos, photos, etc. I kind of imagine that each story within the virtual world would be accompanied by a discussion page the same way articles in Wikipedia are, where students can argue their case for why they believe the event happened in one particular way rather than another. There would of course be differences of opinion, maybe multiple accounts of the same event. But that's what history really is - the competition between different accounts and interpretations, not just a series of facts.

So it sounds like Moodle would be a great addition to this project! Thanks for suggesting it. I'm looking out for people I can add to my team, at least for the purposes of the application (you have to list your team members and have a two page CV for each one), so if you're available for that it could be a great help. If we then get funding you can see how much time you could put into consulting work for us.

Cheers,

Lisa


On 08/20/2012 12:47 PM, chris wrote:
Hi Lisa,

nice idea. There was a similar UWA educational research proposal for teaching ancient greek using opensim/SL. The idea was to immerse students in the culture of the time as well as communicate/learn in ancient greek. That one did not get funded but it may be a good idea to join forces with such educators and not only go for the ABC grant but also an ARC - industry linkage grant.  I can put you in contact with those ppl if interested.

Another link suggestion if you wish to meet educators is on the jokaydiagrid - a relatively inexpensive grid if you want to meet educators and learn at the same time- see:

Another thing to consider is sloodle: an integration of the open source Moodle educational course tools with SL sims. It has its limitations but does provide a good way to develop Web based courses with a sim. I suggest cross media is the best way to go - not just relying on opensim but do Web/sim/film/machinima - which it seems you are already thinking - am I right?

My main experience in this area is in SL and Moodle (both deparately and combined) but I am doing a little edu project in opensim too atm. Over the next year I plan to move stuff from SL to opensim so maybe I will meet you on a grid sometime :)

cheers,

chris

On 20 August 2012 01:18, Lisa Evans <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all,

I'm very new to OpenSim and just signed up to this list to ask a few questions. Sorry if I come across as a bit of a newbie, although I've been studying OS for a few days and I have my own standalone grid up and running at home.

I'm putting together a proposal for this educational portal run by the ABC here in Australia:

http://www.abc.net.au/learn/proposals.htm

My project is all about teaching history, the idea being that students and history classes could put together simple sims telling stories about the history of their own local area, linking them up with videos, photos, essays, etc (which you could hopefully launch from within the sim). Their sims would all be linked up in a hypergrid, so students from all over Australia (later maybe the world) could get into a virtual time machine and visit different places at different times, to see what was happening. Students would be able to chat with each other and show each other around their creations. Hopefully the act of collaborative world building would engage them in learning about history, but I would want them focussed on just telling small stories, involving a small number of characters (which would be created as NPCs if that's possible, with simple, looping animations if not more complex behaviour) and buildings, objects, etc. (I have ideas about how to source lots of 3D content, which I need to explore more).

I'm sure none of this is an original idea, but it seems like a good opportunity to put an idea like this forward. I just was wondering if anyone could tell me whether it would work in OpenSim or if there are some big barriers to creating something like this.

My main issue right now is trying to work out how you create sims that represent not only a region in space but also a period in time. I've been thinking that I would have a grid that contains regions in which only stories from, say, 1950 to 2000 were created. Then another grid would represent the same real world area, but contain stories from 1900-1950. The further you go back in time, the longer the time intervals would get, along an approximately logarithmic scale, so if you were telling stories about the dinosaurs one grid would represent the entire Jurassic era, for example.

Would this be the right way to go? I've been reading about regions and grids and hypergrids but I'm pretty sure there's a lot I don't understand.

My own background is that I've been working in 3D animation for film, TV and games for the past decade, as a 3D all rounder and a technical artist. I've worked on one big MMO for three years that was never released. So I know about 3D modeling, animation, worldbuilding, etc. but I've never spent much time around Second Life or OpenSim, so a lot of this is new to me.

Thanks for any help!

Cheers,

Lisa Evans

_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



--

Dr Chris Thorne


http://www.vrshed.com
http://www.floatingorigin.com




_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



--
-- 
Jo Kay
________________________________
Freelance Design, Virtual  Worlds and Facilitation
Tel: 0405179622


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Re: Some questions about recreating history in OpenSim

Lisa Evans
Thanks, that helps me a lot to see that it's possible, and to be able to point the ABC at it too. If we used part of the budget, as Maria suggested to me, to develop an open source web viewer for OpenSim, would that help you too? That would get around the ports issue, wouldn't it? Since this would all be run via the ABC's online education portal, you would think they would be able to arrange things with schools to get around the firewall of doom. That must be part of their plan already, otherwise they won't get very far!

Cheers,

Lisa

On 08/20/2012 01:29 PM, jokay Wollongong wrote:
HI Lisa and all,

Just sharing, as I thought it might be of interest...  we (at jokaydiaGRID)  actually developed a historical build with the History Teachers Association of Victoria last year! You can find out more about it here -  http://virtualhistorycentre.com/ . Essentially the project focussed on making a virtual replica of the Point Nepean Quarantine Station in Victoria and additionally a museum which provides virtual worlds access to a range of research materials and resources for students to explore. There are also a number of quests built into the environment to encourage students to explore, reflect and recreate content to add to the build. You can view additional pictures of the here - http://www.flickr.com/photos/jokay/sets/72157631154100902/

Unfortunatey its had limited use so far because of the ongoing challenges of opening ports in educational environments in Australia (shake fist at firewall of doom), but it has had some limited use by students in Victoria and we're currently working on various Sim on a stick options et al. Additionally, we're hoping it will be open to the public via jokaydiaGRID very soon... will keep you posted! ;) 

Kind regards,
jokay
Director, jokadiaGRID / Co-Founder Massively Minecraft







On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Lisa Evans <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Chris,

Thanks for that! I'm pretty sure we already know each other, years ago at the FTI during the CADSAGAP course? Am I thinking of the right person? I was hoping I would run into some local people as I did my research on this! Yes, I definitely want to talk to people at UWA, I need some input from teachers and/or academics in this area. It helps that my father is both a science teacher and a computer programmer, so he's helping me out, but someone who has done more work on using virtual worlds in education would be very, very helpful for my application :)

I'm definitely thinking of cross media, because I think focussing on 3D worldbuilding could become a bit of a distraction from actually learning, once you get past a certain point of complexity. I just want the virtual space to be a meeting place, and to help give context, kind of like a museum exhibition or a diorama representing a story from history. The rest of the story, and discussion about different historical sources, would be in more traditional text format, along with videos, photos, etc. I kind of imagine that each story within the virtual world would be accompanied by a discussion page the same way articles in Wikipedia are, where students can argue their case for why they believe the event happened in one particular way rather than another. There would of course be differences of opinion, maybe multiple accounts of the same event. But that's what history really is - the competition between different accounts and interpretations, not just a series of facts.

So it sounds like Moodle would be a great addition to this project! Thanks for suggesting it. I'm looking out for people I can add to my team, at least for the purposes of the application (you have to list your team members and have a two page CV for each one), so if you're available for that it could be a great help. If we then get funding you can see how much time you could put into consulting work for us.

Cheers,

Lisa


On 08/20/2012 12:47 PM, chris wrote:
Hi Lisa,

nice idea. There was a similar UWA educational research proposal for teaching ancient greek using opensim/SL. The idea was to immerse students in the culture of the time as well as communicate/learn in ancient greek. That one did not get funded but it may be a good idea to join forces with such educators and not only go for the ABC grant but also an ARC - industry linkage grant.  I can put you in contact with those ppl if interested.

Another link suggestion if you wish to meet educators is on the jokaydiagrid - a relatively inexpensive grid if you want to meet educators and learn at the same time- see:

Another thing to consider is sloodle: an integration of the open source Moodle educational course tools with SL sims. It has its limitations but does provide a good way to develop Web based courses with a sim. I suggest cross media is the best way to go - not just relying on opensim but do Web/sim/film/machinima - which it seems you are already thinking - am I right?

My main experience in this area is in SL and Moodle (both deparately and combined) but I am doing a little edu project in opensim too atm. Over the next year I plan to move stuff from SL to opensim so maybe I will meet you on a grid sometime :)

cheers,

chris

On 20 August 2012 01:18, Lisa Evans <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all,

I'm very new to OpenSim and just signed up to this list to ask a few questions. Sorry if I come across as a bit of a newbie, although I've been studying OS for a few days and I have my own standalone grid up and running at home.

I'm putting together a proposal for this educational portal run by the ABC here in Australia:

http://www.abc.net.au/learn/proposals.htm

My project is all about teaching history, the idea being that students and history classes could put together simple sims telling stories about the history of their own local area, linking them up with videos, photos, essays, etc (which you could hopefully launch from within the sim). Their sims would all be linked up in a hypergrid, so students from all over Australia (later maybe the world) could get into a virtual time machine and visit different places at different times, to see what was happening. Students would be able to chat with each other and show each other around their creations. Hopefully the act of collaborative world building would engage them in learning about history, but I would want them focussed on just telling small stories, involving a small number of characters (which would be created as NPCs if that's possible, with simple, looping animations if not more complex behaviour) and buildings, objects, etc. (I have ideas about how to source lots of 3D content, which I need to explore more).

I'm sure none of this is an original idea, but it seems like a good opportunity to put an idea like this forward. I just was wondering if anyone could tell me whether it would work in OpenSim or if there are some big barriers to creating something like this.

My main issue right now is trying to work out how you create sims that represent not only a region in space but also a period in time. I've been thinking that I would have a grid that contains regions in which only stories from, say, 1950 to 2000 were created. Then another grid would represent the same real world area, but contain stories from 1900-1950. The further you go back in time, the longer the time intervals would get, along an approximately logarithmic scale, so if you were telling stories about the dinosaurs one grid would represent the entire Jurassic era, for example.

Would this be the right way to go? I've been reading about regions and grids and hypergrids but I'm pretty sure there's a lot I don't understand.

My own background is that I've been working in 3D animation for film, TV and games for the past decade, as a 3D all rounder and a technical artist. I've worked on one big MMO for three years that was never released. So I know about 3D modeling, animation, worldbuilding, etc. but I've never spent much time around Second Life or OpenSim, so a lot of this is new to me.

Thanks for any help!

Cheers,

Lisa Evans

_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



--

Dr Chris Thorne


http://www.vrshed.com
http://www.floatingorigin.com




_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



--
-- 
Jo Kay
________________________________
Freelance Design, Virtual  Worlds and Facilitation
Tel: 0405179622



_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


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Re: Some questions about recreating history in OpenSim

jokay Wollongong
Access challenges very much varies from State to State, and I can happily report things are getting a little easier as edu departments begin to finally embrace virtual worlds and games a little more eg. tafe projects like Virtual Enterprise @ jokaydiaGRID and the PLANE project - a NSW PD program for teachers which includes some opensim. However it is still probably the big risk factor to consider. The other is hardware..there are alot of year 9 laptops out there that WILL NOT run opensim. ;(

Having said that, things are much easier in VIC than NSW or QLD, but still a bit of a challenge. Solving port issues via viewer dev would indeed be a huge win, but a big challenge considering how wedded to port 80 and powerpoint alot edu IT departments are! ;) I also suspect that options for running it on SOAS or a local school server would also be very valuable.

regards,
jokay


On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 4:00 PM, Lisa Evans <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks, that helps me a lot to see that it's possible, and to be able to point the ABC at it too. If we used part of the budget, as Maria suggested to me, to develop an open source web viewer for OpenSim, would that help you too? That would get around the ports issue, wouldn't it? Since this would all be run via the ABC's online education portal, you would think they would be able to arrange things with schools to get around the firewall of doom. That must be part of their plan already, otherwise they won't get very far!

Cheers,

Lisa


On 08/20/2012 01:29 PM, jokay Wollongong wrote:
HI Lisa and all,

Just sharing, as I thought it might be of interest...  we (at jokaydiaGRID)  actually developed a historical build with the History Teachers Association of Victoria last year! You can find out more about it here -  http://virtualhistorycentre.com/ . Essentially the project focussed on making a virtual replica of the Point Nepean Quarantine Station in Victoria and additionally a museum which provides virtual worlds access to a range of research materials and resources for students to explore. There are also a number of quests built into the environment to encourage students to explore, reflect and recreate content to add to the build. You can view additional pictures of the here - http://www.flickr.com/photos/jokay/sets/72157631154100902/

Unfortunatey its had limited use so far because of the ongoing challenges of opening ports in educational environments in Australia (shake fist at firewall of doom), but it has had some limited use by students in Victoria and we're currently working on various Sim on a stick options et al. Additionally, we're hoping it will be open to the public via jokaydiaGRID very soon... will keep you posted! ;) 

Kind regards,
jokay
Director, jokadiaGRID / Co-Founder Massively Minecraft







On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Lisa Evans <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Chris,

Thanks for that! I'm pretty sure we already know each other, years ago at the FTI during the CADSAGAP course? Am I thinking of the right person? I was hoping I would run into some local people as I did my research on this! Yes, I definitely want to talk to people at UWA, I need some input from teachers and/or academics in this area. It helps that my father is both a science teacher and a computer programmer, so he's helping me out, but someone who has done more work on using virtual worlds in education would be very, very helpful for my application :)

I'm definitely thinking of cross media, because I think focussing on 3D worldbuilding could become a bit of a distraction from actually learning, once you get past a certain point of complexity. I just want the virtual space to be a meeting place, and to help give context, kind of like a museum exhibition or a diorama representing a story from history. The rest of the story, and discussion about different historical sources, would be in more traditional text format, along with videos, photos, etc. I kind of imagine that each story within the virtual world would be accompanied by a discussion page the same way articles in Wikipedia are, where students can argue their case for why they believe the event happened in one particular way rather than another. There would of course be differences of opinion, maybe multiple accounts of the same event. But that's what history really is - the competition between different accounts and interpretations, not just a series of facts.

So it sounds like Moodle would be a great addition to this project! Thanks for suggesting it. I'm looking out for people I can add to my team, at least for the purposes of the application (you have to list your team members and have a two page CV for each one), so if you're available for that it could be a great help. If we then get funding you can see how much time you could put into consulting work for us.

Cheers,

Lisa


On 08/20/2012 12:47 PM, chris wrote:
Hi Lisa,

nice idea. There was a similar UWA educational research proposal for teaching ancient greek using opensim/SL. The idea was to immerse students in the culture of the time as well as communicate/learn in ancient greek. That one did not get funded but it may be a good idea to join forces with such educators and not only go for the ABC grant but also an ARC - industry linkage grant.  I can put you in contact with those ppl if interested.

Another link suggestion if you wish to meet educators is on the jokaydiagrid - a relatively inexpensive grid if you want to meet educators and learn at the same time- see:

Another thing to consider is sloodle: an integration of the open source Moodle educational course tools with SL sims. It has its limitations but does provide a good way to develop Web based courses with a sim. I suggest cross media is the best way to go - not just relying on opensim but do Web/sim/film/machinima - which it seems you are already thinking - am I right?

My main experience in this area is in SL and Moodle (both deparately and combined) but I am doing a little edu project in opensim too atm. Over the next year I plan to move stuff from SL to opensim so maybe I will meet you on a grid sometime :)

cheers,

chris

On 20 August 2012 01:18, Lisa Evans <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all,

I'm very new to OpenSim and just signed up to this list to ask a few questions. Sorry if I come across as a bit of a newbie, although I've been studying OS for a few days and I have my own standalone grid up and running at home.

I'm putting together a proposal for this educational portal run by the ABC here in Australia:

http://www.abc.net.au/learn/proposals.htm

My project is all about teaching history, the idea being that students and history classes could put together simple sims telling stories about the history of their own local area, linking them up with videos, photos, essays, etc (which you could hopefully launch from within the sim). Their sims would all be linked up in a hypergrid, so students from all over Australia (later maybe the world) could get into a virtual time machine and visit different places at different times, to see what was happening. Students would be able to chat with each other and show each other around their creations. Hopefully the act of collaborative world building would engage them in learning about history, but I would want them focussed on just telling small stories, involving a small number of characters (which would be created as NPCs if that's possible, with simple, looping animations if not more complex behaviour) and buildings, objects, etc. (I have ideas about how to source lots of 3D content, which I need to explore more).

I'm sure none of this is an original idea, but it seems like a good opportunity to put an idea like this forward. I just was wondering if anyone could tell me whether it would work in OpenSim or if there are some big barriers to creating something like this.

My main issue right now is trying to work out how you create sims that represent not only a region in space but also a period in time. I've been thinking that I would have a grid that contains regions in which only stories from, say, 1950 to 2000 were created. Then another grid would represent the same real world area, but contain stories from 1900-1950. The further you go back in time, the longer the time intervals would get, along an approximately logarithmic scale, so if you were telling stories about the dinosaurs one grid would represent the entire Jurassic era, for example.

Would this be the right way to go? I've been reading about regions and grids and hypergrids but I'm pretty sure there's a lot I don't understand.

My own background is that I've been working in 3D animation for film, TV and games for the past decade, as a 3D all rounder and a technical artist. I've worked on one big MMO for three years that was never released. So I know about 3D modeling, animation, worldbuilding, etc. but I've never spent much time around Second Life or OpenSim, so a lot of this is new to me.

Thanks for any help!

Cheers,

Lisa Evans

_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



--

Dr Chris Thorne


http://www.vrshed.com
http://www.floatingorigin.com




_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



--
-- 
Jo Kay
________________________________
Freelance Design, Virtual  Worlds and Facilitation
Tel: <a href="tel:0405179622" value="+61405179622" target="_blank">0405179622



_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



--
-- 
Jo Kay
________________________________
Freelance Design, Virtual  Worlds and Facilitation
Tel: 0405179622


_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
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Re: Some questions about recreating history in OpenSim

Chris Thorne
In reply to this post by jokay Wollongong
Hey jokay,

- just recommended your grid to Lisa
I guess u are too slow :p

Chris

Sent from my iPad

On 20/08/2012, at 1:29 PM, jokay Wollongong <[hidden email]> wrote:

HI Lisa and all,

Just sharing, as I thought it might be of interest...  we (at jokaydiaGRID)  actually developed a historical build with the History Teachers Association of Victoria last year! You can find out more about it here -  http://virtualhistorycentre.com/ . Essentially the project focussed on making a virtual replica of the Point Nepean Quarantine Station in Victoria and additionally a museum which provides virtual worlds access to a range of research materials and resources for students to explore. There are also a number of quests built into the environment to encourage students to explore, reflect and recreate content to add to the build. You can view additional pictures of the here - http://www.flickr.com/photos/jokay/sets/72157631154100902/

Unfortunatey its had limited use so far because of the ongoing challenges of opening ports in educational environments in Australia (shake fist at firewall of doom), but it has had some limited use by students in Victoria and we're currently working on various Sim on a stick options et al. Additionally, we're hoping it will be open to the public via jokaydiaGRID very soon... will keep you posted! ;) 

Kind regards,
jokay
Director, jokadiaGRID / Co-Founder Massively Minecraft







On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Lisa Evans <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Chris,

Thanks for that! I'm pretty sure we already know each other, years ago at the FTI during the CADSAGAP course? Am I thinking of the right person? I was hoping I would run into some local people as I did my research on this! Yes, I definitely want to talk to people at UWA, I need some input from teachers and/or academics in this area. It helps that my father is both a science teacher and a computer programmer, so he's helping me out, but someone who has done more work on using virtual worlds in education would be very, very helpful for my application :)

I'm definitely thinking of cross media, because I think focussing on 3D worldbuilding could become a bit of a distraction from actually learning, once you get past a certain point of complexity. I just want the virtual space to be a meeting place, and to help give context, kind of like a museum exhibition or a diorama representing a story from history. The rest of the story, and discussion about different historical sources, would be in more traditional text format, along with videos, photos, etc. I kind of imagine that each story within the virtual world would be accompanied by a discussion page the same way articles in Wikipedia are, where students can argue their case for why they believe the event happened in one particular way rather than another. There would of course be differences of opinion, maybe multiple accounts of the same event. But that's what history really is - the competition between different accounts and interpretations, not just a series of facts.

So it sounds like Moodle would be a great addition to this project! Thanks for suggesting it. I'm looking out for people I can add to my team, at least for the purposes of the application (you have to list your team members and have a two page CV for each one), so if you're available for that it could be a great help. If we then get funding you can see how much time you could put into consulting work for us.

Cheers,

Lisa


On 08/20/2012 12:47 PM, chris wrote:
Hi Lisa,

nice idea. There was a similar UWA educational research proposal for teaching ancient greek using opensim/SL. The idea was to immerse students in the culture of the time as well as communicate/learn in ancient greek. That one did not get funded but it may be a good idea to join forces with such educators and not only go for the ABC grant but also an ARC - industry linkage grant.  I can put you in contact with those ppl if interested.

Another link suggestion if you wish to meet educators is on the jokaydiagrid - a relatively inexpensive grid if you want to meet educators and learn at the same time- see:

Another thing to consider is sloodle: an integration of the open source Moodle educational course tools with SL sims. It has its limitations but does provide a good way to develop Web based courses with a sim. I suggest cross media is the best way to go - not just relying on opensim but do Web/sim/film/machinima - which it seems you are already thinking - am I right?

My main experience in this area is in SL and Moodle (both deparately and combined) but I am doing a little edu project in opensim too atm. Over the next year I plan to move stuff from SL to opensim so maybe I will meet you on a grid sometime :)

cheers,

chris

On 20 August 2012 01:18, Lisa Evans <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all,

I'm very new to OpenSim and just signed up to this list to ask a few questions. Sorry if I come across as a bit of a newbie, although I've been studying OS for a few days and I have my own standalone grid up and running at home.

I'm putting together a proposal for this educational portal run by the ABC here in Australia:

http://www.abc.net.au/learn/proposals.htm

My project is all about teaching history, the idea being that students and history classes could put together simple sims telling stories about the history of their own local area, linking them up with videos, photos, essays, etc (which you could hopefully launch from within the sim). Their sims would all be linked up in a hypergrid, so students from all over Australia (later maybe the world) could get into a virtual time machine and visit different places at different times, to see what was happening. Students would be able to chat with each other and show each other around their creations. Hopefully the act of collaborative world building would engage them in learning about history, but I would want them focussed on just telling small stories, involving a small number of characters (which would be created as NPCs if that's possible, with simple, looping animations if not more complex behaviour) and buildings, objects, etc. (I have ideas about how to source lots of 3D content, which I need to explore more).

I'm sure none of this is an original idea, but it seems like a good opportunity to put an idea like this forward. I just was wondering if anyone could tell me whether it would work in OpenSim or if there are some big barriers to creating something like this.

My main issue right now is trying to work out how you create sims that represent not only a region in space but also a period in time. I've been thinking that I would have a grid that contains regions in which only stories from, say, 1950 to 2000 were created. Then another grid would represent the same real world area, but contain stories from 1900-1950. The further you go back in time, the longer the time intervals would get, along an approximately logarithmic scale, so if you were telling stories about the dinosaurs one grid would represent the entire Jurassic era, for example.

Would this be the right way to go? I've been reading about regions and grids and hypergrids but I'm pretty sure there's a lot I don't understand.

My own background is that I've been working in 3D animation for film, TV and games for the past decade, as a 3D all rounder and a technical artist. I've worked on one big MMO for three years that was never released. So I know about 3D modeling, animation, worldbuilding, etc. but I've never spent much time around Second Life or OpenSim, so a lot of this is new to me.

Thanks for any help!

Cheers,

Lisa Evans

_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



--

Dr Chris Thorne


http://www.vrshed.com
http://www.floatingorigin.com




_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



--
-- 
Jo Kay
________________________________
Freelance Design, Virtual  Worlds and Facilitation
Tel: 0405179622

_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users

_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
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|

Re: Some questions about recreating history in OpenSim

jokay Wollongong
Lolz Chris..... i was busy rezzing something! ;) 


On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Chris Thorne <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hey jokay,

- just recommended your grid to Lisa
I guess u are too slow :p

Chris

Sent from my iPad

On 20/08/2012, at 1:29 PM, jokay Wollongong <[hidden email]> wrote:

HI Lisa and all,

Just sharing, as I thought it might be of interest...  we (at jokaydiaGRID)  actually developed a historical build with the History Teachers Association of Victoria last year! You can find out more about it here -  http://virtualhistorycentre.com/ . Essentially the project focussed on making a virtual replica of the Point Nepean Quarantine Station in Victoria and additionally a museum which provides virtual worlds access to a range of research materials and resources for students to explore. There are also a number of quests built into the environment to encourage students to explore, reflect and recreate content to add to the build. You can view additional pictures of the here - http://www.flickr.com/photos/jokay/sets/72157631154100902/

Unfortunatey its had limited use so far because of the ongoing challenges of opening ports in educational environments in Australia (shake fist at firewall of doom), but it has had some limited use by students in Victoria and we're currently working on various Sim on a stick options et al. Additionally, we're hoping it will be open to the public via jokaydiaGRID very soon... will keep you posted! ;) 

Kind regards,
jokay
Director, jokadiaGRID / Co-Founder Massively Minecraft







On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Lisa Evans <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Chris,

Thanks for that! I'm pretty sure we already know each other, years ago at the FTI during the CADSAGAP course? Am I thinking of the right person? I was hoping I would run into some local people as I did my research on this! Yes, I definitely want to talk to people at UWA, I need some input from teachers and/or academics in this area. It helps that my father is both a science teacher and a computer programmer, so he's helping me out, but someone who has done more work on using virtual worlds in education would be very, very helpful for my application :)

I'm definitely thinking of cross media, because I think focussing on 3D worldbuilding could become a bit of a distraction from actually learning, once you get past a certain point of complexity. I just want the virtual space to be a meeting place, and to help give context, kind of like a museum exhibition or a diorama representing a story from history. The rest of the story, and discussion about different historical sources, would be in more traditional text format, along with videos, photos, etc. I kind of imagine that each story within the virtual world would be accompanied by a discussion page the same way articles in Wikipedia are, where students can argue their case for why they believe the event happened in one particular way rather than another. There would of course be differences of opinion, maybe multiple accounts of the same event. But that's what history really is - the competition between different accounts and interpretations, not just a series of facts.

So it sounds like Moodle would be a great addition to this project! Thanks for suggesting it. I'm looking out for people I can add to my team, at least for the purposes of the application (you have to list your team members and have a two page CV for each one), so if you're available for that it could be a great help. If we then get funding you can see how much time you could put into consulting work for us.

Cheers,

Lisa


On 08/20/2012 12:47 PM, chris wrote:
Hi Lisa,

nice idea. There was a similar UWA educational research proposal for teaching ancient greek using opensim/SL. The idea was to immerse students in the culture of the time as well as communicate/learn in ancient greek. That one did not get funded but it may be a good idea to join forces with such educators and not only go for the ABC grant but also an ARC - industry linkage grant.  I can put you in contact with those ppl if interested.

Another link suggestion if you wish to meet educators is on the jokaydiagrid - a relatively inexpensive grid if you want to meet educators and learn at the same time- see:

Another thing to consider is sloodle: an integration of the open source Moodle educational course tools with SL sims. It has its limitations but does provide a good way to develop Web based courses with a sim. I suggest cross media is the best way to go - not just relying on opensim but do Web/sim/film/machinima - which it seems you are already thinking - am I right?

My main experience in this area is in SL and Moodle (both deparately and combined) but I am doing a little edu project in opensim too atm. Over the next year I plan to move stuff from SL to opensim so maybe I will meet you on a grid sometime :)

cheers,

chris

On 20 August 2012 01:18, Lisa Evans <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all,

I'm very new to OpenSim and just signed up to this list to ask a few questions. Sorry if I come across as a bit of a newbie, although I've been studying OS for a few days and I have my own standalone grid up and running at home.

I'm putting together a proposal for this educational portal run by the ABC here in Australia:

http://www.abc.net.au/learn/proposals.htm

My project is all about teaching history, the idea being that students and history classes could put together simple sims telling stories about the history of their own local area, linking them up with videos, photos, essays, etc (which you could hopefully launch from within the sim). Their sims would all be linked up in a hypergrid, so students from all over Australia (later maybe the world) could get into a virtual time machine and visit different places at different times, to see what was happening. Students would be able to chat with each other and show each other around their creations. Hopefully the act of collaborative world building would engage them in learning about history, but I would want them focussed on just telling small stories, involving a small number of characters (which would be created as NPCs if that's possible, with simple, looping animations if not more complex behaviour) and buildings, objects, etc. (I have ideas about how to source lots of 3D content, which I need to explore more).

I'm sure none of this is an original idea, but it seems like a good opportunity to put an idea like this forward. I just was wondering if anyone could tell me whether it would work in OpenSim or if there are some big barriers to creating something like this.

My main issue right now is trying to work out how you create sims that represent not only a region in space but also a period in time. I've been thinking that I would have a grid that contains regions in which only stories from, say, 1950 to 2000 were created. Then another grid would represent the same real world area, but contain stories from 1900-1950. The further you go back in time, the longer the time intervals would get, along an approximately logarithmic scale, so if you were telling stories about the dinosaurs one grid would represent the entire Jurassic era, for example.

Would this be the right way to go? I've been reading about regions and grids and hypergrids but I'm pretty sure there's a lot I don't understand.

My own background is that I've been working in 3D animation for film, TV and games for the past decade, as a 3D all rounder and a technical artist. I've worked on one big MMO for three years that was never released. So I know about 3D modeling, animation, worldbuilding, etc. but I've never spent much time around Second Life or OpenSim, so a lot of this is new to me.

Thanks for any help!

Cheers,

Lisa Evans

_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



--

Dr Chris Thorne


http://www.vrshed.com
http://www.floatingorigin.com




_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



--
-- 
Jo Kay
________________________________
Freelance Design, Virtual  Worlds and Facilitation
Tel: <a href="tel:0405179622" value="+61405179622" target="_blank">0405179622

_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users

_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



--
-- 
Jo Kay
________________________________
Freelance Design, Virtual  Worlds and Facilitation
Tel: 0405179622


_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
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Re: Some questions about recreating history in OpenSim

jokay Wollongong
And thanks so much for the recommend! ;)


On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 4:24 PM, jokay Wollongong <[hidden email]> wrote:
Lolz Chris..... i was busy rezzing something! ;) 


On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Chris Thorne <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hey jokay,

- just recommended your grid to Lisa
I guess u are too slow :p

Chris

Sent from my iPad

On 20/08/2012, at 1:29 PM, jokay Wollongong <[hidden email]> wrote:

HI Lisa and all,

Just sharing, as I thought it might be of interest...  we (at jokaydiaGRID)  actually developed a historical build with the History Teachers Association of Victoria last year! You can find out more about it here -  http://virtualhistorycentre.com/ . Essentially the project focussed on making a virtual replica of the Point Nepean Quarantine Station in Victoria and additionally a museum which provides virtual worlds access to a range of research materials and resources for students to explore. There are also a number of quests built into the environment to encourage students to explore, reflect and recreate content to add to the build. You can view additional pictures of the here - http://www.flickr.com/photos/jokay/sets/72157631154100902/

Unfortunatey its had limited use so far because of the ongoing challenges of opening ports in educational environments in Australia (shake fist at firewall of doom), but it has had some limited use by students in Victoria and we're currently working on various Sim on a stick options et al. Additionally, we're hoping it will be open to the public via jokaydiaGRID very soon... will keep you posted! ;) 

Kind regards,
jokay
Director, jokadiaGRID / Co-Founder Massively Minecraft







On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Lisa Evans <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Chris,

Thanks for that! I'm pretty sure we already know each other, years ago at the FTI during the CADSAGAP course? Am I thinking of the right person? I was hoping I would run into some local people as I did my research on this! Yes, I definitely want to talk to people at UWA, I need some input from teachers and/or academics in this area. It helps that my father is both a science teacher and a computer programmer, so he's helping me out, but someone who has done more work on using virtual worlds in education would be very, very helpful for my application :)

I'm definitely thinking of cross media, because I think focussing on 3D worldbuilding could become a bit of a distraction from actually learning, once you get past a certain point of complexity. I just want the virtual space to be a meeting place, and to help give context, kind of like a museum exhibition or a diorama representing a story from history. The rest of the story, and discussion about different historical sources, would be in more traditional text format, along with videos, photos, etc. I kind of imagine that each story within the virtual world would be accompanied by a discussion page the same way articles in Wikipedia are, where students can argue their case for why they believe the event happened in one particular way rather than another. There would of course be differences of opinion, maybe multiple accounts of the same event. But that's what history really is - the competition between different accounts and interpretations, not just a series of facts.

So it sounds like Moodle would be a great addition to this project! Thanks for suggesting it. I'm looking out for people I can add to my team, at least for the purposes of the application (you have to list your team members and have a two page CV for each one), so if you're available for that it could be a great help. If we then get funding you can see how much time you could put into consulting work for us.

Cheers,

Lisa


On 08/20/2012 12:47 PM, chris wrote:
Hi Lisa,

nice idea. There was a similar UWA educational research proposal for teaching ancient greek using opensim/SL. The idea was to immerse students in the culture of the time as well as communicate/learn in ancient greek. That one did not get funded but it may be a good idea to join forces with such educators and not only go for the ABC grant but also an ARC - industry linkage grant.  I can put you in contact with those ppl if interested.

Another link suggestion if you wish to meet educators is on the jokaydiagrid - a relatively inexpensive grid if you want to meet educators and learn at the same time- see:

Another thing to consider is sloodle: an integration of the open source Moodle educational course tools with SL sims. It has its limitations but does provide a good way to develop Web based courses with a sim. I suggest cross media is the best way to go - not just relying on opensim but do Web/sim/film/machinima - which it seems you are already thinking - am I right?

My main experience in this area is in SL and Moodle (both deparately and combined) but I am doing a little edu project in opensim too atm. Over the next year I plan to move stuff from SL to opensim so maybe I will meet you on a grid sometime :)

cheers,

chris

On 20 August 2012 01:18, Lisa Evans <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all,

I'm very new to OpenSim and just signed up to this list to ask a few questions. Sorry if I come across as a bit of a newbie, although I've been studying OS for a few days and I have my own standalone grid up and running at home.

I'm putting together a proposal for this educational portal run by the ABC here in Australia:

http://www.abc.net.au/learn/proposals.htm

My project is all about teaching history, the idea being that students and history classes could put together simple sims telling stories about the history of their own local area, linking them up with videos, photos, essays, etc (which you could hopefully launch from within the sim). Their sims would all be linked up in a hypergrid, so students from all over Australia (later maybe the world) could get into a virtual time machine and visit different places at different times, to see what was happening. Students would be able to chat with each other and show each other around their creations. Hopefully the act of collaborative world building would engage them in learning about history, but I would want them focussed on just telling small stories, involving a small number of characters (which would be created as NPCs if that's possible, with simple, looping animations if not more complex behaviour) and buildings, objects, etc. (I have ideas about how to source lots of 3D content, which I need to explore more).

I'm sure none of this is an original idea, but it seems like a good opportunity to put an idea like this forward. I just was wondering if anyone could tell me whether it would work in OpenSim or if there are some big barriers to creating something like this.

My main issue right now is trying to work out how you create sims that represent not only a region in space but also a period in time. I've been thinking that I would have a grid that contains regions in which only stories from, say, 1950 to 2000 were created. Then another grid would represent the same real world area, but contain stories from 1900-1950. The further you go back in time, the longer the time intervals would get, along an approximately logarithmic scale, so if you were telling stories about the dinosaurs one grid would represent the entire Jurassic era, for example.

Would this be the right way to go? I've been reading about regions and grids and hypergrids but I'm pretty sure there's a lot I don't understand.

My own background is that I've been working in 3D animation for film, TV and games for the past decade, as a 3D all rounder and a technical artist. I've worked on one big MMO for three years that was never released. So I know about 3D modeling, animation, worldbuilding, etc. but I've never spent much time around Second Life or OpenSim, so a lot of this is new to me.

Thanks for any help!

Cheers,

Lisa Evans

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________________________________
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Jo Kay
________________________________
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Tel: <a href="tel:0405179622" value="+61405179622" target="_blank">0405179622




--
-- 
Jo Kay
________________________________
Freelance Design, Virtual  Worlds and Facilitation
Tel: 0405179622


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Re: Some questions about recreating history in OpenSim

Chris Thorne
In reply to this post by jokay Wollongong


Sent from my iPad

On 20/08/2012, at 2:07 PM, jokay Wollongong <[hidden email]> wrote:

Access challenges very much varies from State to State, and I can happily report things are getting a little easier as edu departments begin to finally embrace virtual worlds and games a little more eg. tafe projects like Virtual Enterprise @ jokaydiaGRID and the PLANE project - a NSW PD program for teachers which includes some opensim. However it is still probably the big risk factor to consider. The other is hardware..there are alot of year 9 laptops out there that WILL NOT run opensim. ;(

Having said that, things are much easier in VIC than NSW or QLD, but still a bit of a challenge. Solving port issues via viewer dev would indeed be a huge win, but a big challenge considering how wedded to port 80 and powerpoint alot edu IT departments are! ;) I also suspect that options for running it on SOAS or a local school server would also be very valuable.

regards,
jokay


On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 4:00 PM, Lisa Evans <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thanks, that helps me a lot to see that it's possible, and to be able to point the ABC at it too. If we used part of the budget, as Maria suggested to me, to develop an open source web viewer for OpenSim, would that help you too? That would get around the ports issue, wouldn't it?

Port access is controlled by at the school/ uni network level and so developing another viewer will not help in this regard.

Plenty of universities already allow the ports needed by SL/opensim to be used. For high schools it will be have to be managed through the school's participation program. 

Chris

Since this would all be run via the ABC's online education portal, you would think they would be able to arrange things with schools to get around the firewall of doom. That must be part of their plan already, otherwise they won't get very far!

Cheers,

Lisa

..

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Re: Some questions about recreating history in OpenSim

Miller, Peter
In reply to this post by Lisa Evans

Q: My main issue right now is trying to work out how you create sims that represent not only a region in space but also a period in time. I've been thinking that I would have a grid that contains regions in which only stories from, say, 1950 to 2000 were created. Then another grid would represent the same real world area, but contain stories from 1900-1950. The further you go back in time, the longer the time intervals would get, along an approximately logarithmic scale, so if you were telling stories about the dinosaurs one grid would represent the entire Jurassic era, for example.

 

A: There's theoretically nothing to stop you doing this as far as I know. Different grids use the same coordinate space. In practice there have been reports that teleporting to identical locations in two grids can be problematic -- to quote:

 

"You can’t hypergrid teleport from one destination to another one that has exactly the same grid coordinates. This can be a problem for standalones, since many use the default 1000,1000 coordinates." http://www.hyperica.com/how-to-travel/ 

 

I have no idea whether that is still the case. Of course, incorporating an offset would not be difficult.

 

One nice thing you can do with OpenSim is to merge regions derived from OARs so you could in theory superimpose a succession of eras in a single region. Again, there's probably a little more to it than that but it's an interesting place to start :)

 

Best wishes

 

Peter


From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] on behalf of Lisa Evans [[hidden email]]
Sent: 19 August 2012 18:18
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Opensim-users] Some questions about recreating history in OpenSim

Hi all,

I'm very new to OpenSim and just signed up to this list to ask a few questions. Sorry if I come across as a bit of a newbie, although I've been studying OS for a few days and I have my own standalone grid up and running at home.

I'm putting together a proposal for this educational portal run by the ABC here in Australia:

http://www.abc.net.au/learn/proposals.htm

My project is all about teaching history, the idea being that students and history classes could put together simple sims telling stories about the history of their own local area, linking them up with videos, photos, essays, etc (which you could hopefully launch from within the sim). Their sims would all be linked up in a hypergrid, so students from all over Australia (later maybe the world) could get into a virtual time machine and visit different places at different times, to see what was happening. Students would be able to chat with each other and show each other around their creations. Hopefully the act of collaborative world building would engage them in learning about history, but I would want them focussed on just telling small stories, involving a small number of characters (which would be created as NPCs if that's possible, with simple, looping animations if not more complex behaviour) and buildings, objects, etc. (I have ideas about how to source lots of 3D content, which I need to explore more).

I'm sure none of this is an original idea, but it seems like a good opportunity to put an idea like this forward. I just was wondering if anyone could tell me whether it would work in OpenSim or if there are some big barriers to creating something like this.

My main issue right now is trying to work out how you create sims that represent not only a region in space but also a period in time. I've been thinking that I would have a grid that contains regions in which only stories from, say, 1950 to 2000 were created. Then another grid would represent the same real world area, but contain stories from 1900-1950. The further you go back in time, the longer the time intervals would get, along an approximately logarithmic scale, so if you were telling stories about the dinosaurs one grid would represent the entire Jurassic era, for example.

Would this be the right way to go? I've been reading about regions and grids and hypergrids but I'm pretty sure there's a lot I don't understand.

My own background is that I've been working in 3D animation for film, TV and games for the past decade, as a 3D all rounder and a technical artist. I've worked on one big MMO for three years that was never released. So I know about 3D modeling, animation, worldbuilding, etc. but I've never spent much time around Second Life or OpenSim, so a lot of this is new to me.

Thanks for any help!

Cheers,

Lisa Evans

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Re: Some questions about recreating history in OpenSim

Mic Bowman
Just to throw something out...

What about a region module that can play a "log" of events by adding
and removing objects according to some script (add this object here,
remove that one, ...). There are certainly temporal databases that can
determine the "state" of the elements at a particular time...

--mic

On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 10:27 AM, Miller, Peter <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Q: My main issue right now is trying to work out how you create sims that
> represent not only a region in space but also a period in time. I've been
> thinking that I would have a grid that contains regions in which only
> stories from, say, 1950 to 2000 were created. Then another grid would
> represent the same real world area, but contain stories from 1900-1950. The
> further you go back in time, the longer the time intervals would get, along
> an approximately logarithmic scale, so if you were telling stories about the
> dinosaurs one grid would represent the entire Jurassic era, for example.
>
>
>
> A: There's theoretically nothing to stop you doing this as far as I know.
> Different grids use the same coordinate space. In practice there have been
> reports that teleporting to identical locations in two grids can be
> problematic -- to quote:
>
>
>
> "You can’t hypergrid teleport from one destination to another one that has
> exactly the same grid coordinates. This can be a problem for standalones,
> since many use the default 1000,1000 coordinates."
> http://www.hyperica.com/how-to-travel/
>
>
>
> I have no idea whether that is still the case. Of course, incorporating an
> offset would not be difficult.
>
>
>
> One nice thing you can do with OpenSim is to merge regions derived from OARs
> so you could in theory superimpose a succession of eras in a single region.
> Again, there's probably a little more to it than that but it's an
> interesting place to start :)
>
>
>
> Best wishes
>
>
>
> Peter
>
> ________________________________
> From: [hidden email]
> [[hidden email]] on behalf of Lisa Evans
> [[hidden email]]
> Sent: 19 August 2012 18:18
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Opensim-users] Some questions about recreating history in OpenSim
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm very new to OpenSim and just signed up to this list to ask a few
> questions. Sorry if I come across as a bit of a newbie, although I've been
> studying OS for a few days and I have my own standalone grid up and running
> at home.
>
> I'm putting together a proposal for this educational portal run by the ABC
> here in Australia:
>
> http://www.abc.net.au/learn/proposals.htm
>
> My project is all about teaching history, the idea being that students and
> history classes could put together simple sims telling stories about the
> history of their own local area, linking them up with videos, photos,
> essays, etc (which you could hopefully launch from within the sim). Their
> sims would all be linked up in a hypergrid, so students from all over
> Australia (later maybe the world) could get into a virtual time machine and
> visit different places at different times, to see what was happening.
> Students would be able to chat with each other and show each other around
> their creations. Hopefully the act of collaborative world building would
> engage them in learning about history, but I would want them focussed on
> just telling small stories, involving a small number of characters (which
> would be created as NPCs if that's possible, with simple, looping animations
> if not more complex behaviour) and buildings, objects, etc. (I have ideas
> about how to source lots of 3D content, which I need to explore more).
>
> I'm sure none of this is an original idea, but it seems like a good
> opportunity to put an idea like this forward. I just was wondering if anyone
> could tell me whether it would work in OpenSim or if there are some big
> barriers to creating something like this.
>
> My main issue right now is trying to work out how you create sims that
> represent not only a region in space but also a period in time. I've been
> thinking that I would have a grid that contains regions in which only
> stories from, say, 1950 to 2000 were created. Then another grid would
> represent the same real world area, but contain stories from 1900-1950. The
> further you go back in time, the longer the time intervals would get, along
> an approximately logarithmic scale, so if you were telling stories about the
> dinosaurs one grid would represent the entire Jurassic era, for example.
>
> Would this be the right way to go? I've been reading about regions and grids
> and hypergrids but I'm pretty sure there's a lot I don't understand.
>
> My own background is that I've been working in 3D animation for film, TV and
> games for the past decade, as a 3D all rounder and a technical artist. I've
> worked on one big MMO for three years that was never released. So I know
> about 3D modeling, animation, worldbuilding, etc. but I've never spent much
> time around Second Life or OpenSim, so a lot of this is new to me.
>
> Thanks for any help!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Lisa Evans
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
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Re: Some questions about recreating history in OpenSim

justincc
In reply to this post by Lisa Evans
Hi Lisa.  I see a lot of folks have already given some great advice on this and there's not much more I can add!

I just want to make sure that you're aware that OpenSimulator is still a platform in its infancy (as is the whole area
of educating via shared environments, I think).  Therefore, there are still a large number of unexploded bugs, missing
features and performance issues around, though OpenSimulator continues to improve over time.

I'm also sure as a previous MMO developer that you're aware of just how complicated these platforms can get and the
aspects of ongoing maintenance costs, cost of content creation, etc., though I would say that aspects of these are
vastly cheaper on OpenSimulator than on other exclusively commercial-oriented platforms, both self-hosted and with
third-party providers.

Having said all that, I think we're just at the point where some very interesting things can be done and there are many
educational institutions already involved/experimenting with OpenSimulator (e.g. PLANE [1], New Worlds run by the
Chester County Intermediate Unit [2], ScienceSim from Intel [3] and lots of others).

I would also urge that anybody considering funding viewer development talk to the existing viewer projects first before
forking.  These are produced by people who have already shown a long term passion for exploring the virtual world/shared
environment space and it would be great to see sustainable projects catering to OpenSimulator in this area).

[1] http://plane.edu.au/tag/opensim/
[2] http://newworlds.paiunet.org/
[3] http://sciencesim.com/wiki/doku.php/start

On 20/08/12 03:03, Lisa Evans wrote:

> Hi Maria,
>
> Thanks for all this information. I should have written more about the scheme I am writing a proposal for, rather than
> just link to it.
>
> If this proposal is successful, the project will be funded up to $400,000 AU over three years, (and hopefully more
> funding after that, but otherwise we would have to find another source). Also, projects funded under this scheme have to
> be free for educational use within Australia, and they have to make use of the National Broadband Network, which is the
> very high speed broadband network our government is building Australia wide. Part of the reason for the education portal
> is to show it off and justify the expense!
>
> So the only hosting solution that would fit all the requirements would be to build our own servers locally, so we get
> the highest speed possible under the NBN. And we could afford to pay the programmers/tech heads needed to set the
> hosting up, and run it for at least three years.
>
> The project I have in mind is a bit bigger than just what OpenSim can provide under normal circumstances, and we would
> want to maybe fork one of the viewers out there and add some new features to it, using part of the budget. Hopefully
> what I'm intending would be useful to other educators and if the project wasn't funded beyond the three years, the
> development of the new viewer would continue (of course it would all be open source). The features we would add would be
> specific to teaching history through virtual worlds, and teaching in general.
>
> So I would love to talk to someone about my original questions regarding structuring historical sims that exist not just
> in three dimensional space but also back and forth along a timeline. I've studied a fair bit of general relativity back
> when I was doing my physics degree, so I can kind of handle thinking in four dimensions, but this is still a bit tricky,
> lol.
>
> On 08/20/2012 08:47 AM, Maria Korolov wrote:
>> Sarge -- Thanks for the kind words!
>>
>> Lisa --
>>
>> Here are my recommendations, in order of difficulty:
>>
>> 1. Easiest and cheapest: go to http://www.kitely.com and sign up for the free six-hour introductory month, which comes
>> with a free region. You will be asked to download a small plugin, then it will automatically install a viewer for you,
>> create your region, and take you in-world. Easy, peasy. You can practice building, or upload any of the OARs available
>> free to educators to start with.
>> Check out: http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2011/06/where-to-get-content-for-opensim/
>>
>> If you like it, $35 a month gives you unlimited use of Kitely, plus 20 (twenty!) regions. You can add extra regions
>> for just $1 a month each. Each region can hold up to 100,000 prims and up to 100 simultaneous visitors. (No kidding!
>> They run it in the Amazon cloud and the scaling is excellent.) For educators, it's the single best deal out there.
>> Here's the downside: your visitors will get two hours a month free (six hours the first month) but after that they
>> either have to sign up for a plan or pay 20 cents an hour for usage. Or you can opt to pay for their usage.
>>
>> Let's compare this to the Second Life deal, with $300 a month per region, and a $1,000 setup fee. For the $300 you can
>> have something like eight users with unlimited use accounts (you, a couple of fellow teachers, the students doing the
>> heavy building) and 8x20=160 regions and you can put the $1,000 you'd otherwise spend for a setup fee towards 300,000
>> minutes worth of access time for visitors.
>>
>> If you ever want to leave Kitely for any reason, you can export your entire regions (terrains, objects, scripts,
>> everything on them that you have rights to) with a single click, and import them to anywhere else you want in a couple
>> of minutes. They have Vivox voice (the same as Second Life), mesh, media-on-a-prim (to put interactive Web pages and
>> videos on in-world surfaces) and megaregions. The only thing that's missing is hypergrid, and that's coming with the
>> next hypergrid security update. They also have bots -- aka NPCs (non-player characters) -- which you can use to create
>> robots that simulate historical characters and interact with your visitors.
>>
>> 2. Easy, a bit less cheap, but more options: go to Dreamland Metaverse (http://www.dreamlandmetaverse.com/) or one of
>> the other vendors in our hosting directory: http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/opensim-hosting-providers/ I particularly
>> mention Dreamland because they have an excellent reputation with educators, all the latest OpenSim features, and are
>> currently running the grids for a school district in suburban Atlanta. They can set you up with a private grid, or
>> land on any of the open grids out there, including OSGrid. They can set it up so your teachers can hypergrid teleport
>> to other grids, and your students can't. They can automatically create user accounts for all your students and
>> teachers at once -- and there's lot of other custom stuff they can do, as well. They have moderate prices -- they're
>> not the most expensive by far, nor the cheapest, but have a good reputation for reliability and service. And whle
>> Kitely regions are only up when people are on them, and are put to sleep otherwise, Dreamland regions are up 24-7.
>> While this means higher prices, it also means that visitors don't have to wait for a region to boot up when they first
>> teleport to a sleeping region, which can take a minute.
>>
>> 3. Not easy at all, but free. You can run your own grids on your own servers. You will have to set up a MySQL
>> database, and an Apache server, and the OpenSim server, and keep all of those patched and updated and regularly backed
>> up. The easiest way to do that is to use New World Studio -- http://nws.virrea.fr/ --  which installs all of those for
>> you automatically. You will still have to learn how to use the OpenSim management console, however, and, unless you
>> hire a consultant, if you want to manage users or inventories or terrains or OAR files you will often have to go to
>> the server console and type in server commands. The commands are here, to give you a taste:
>> http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Server_Commands
>>
>> If all your visitors are local -- behind your school firewall -- then this will give you the fastest possible
>> connections, since the OpenSim grid will be hosted right where the visitors are. Some of the OpenSim hosting companies
>> will do by-the-hour consulting for you, helping you set up your first grid and installing and configuring routers and
>> viewers and all that other messy stuff. And you can have as many regions, prims and simultaneous visitors as your
>> network can bear -- which could be quite a lot, depending on your infrastructure. And if you want to allow remote
>> logins, or hypergrid travel to and from other grids, you will need to configure it for hypergrid connectivity, and
>> punch a hole in your network's firewall to allow the traffic to go through.
>>
>> Feel free to contact me directly if you have any additional questions!
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> -- Maria
>>
>> ____________________________________________________
>> Maria Korolov •  508-443-1130 • [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>> <http://www.china-speakers-bureau.com/>Editor & Publisher, *Hypergrid Business* <http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/>
>> /The magazine for enterprise users of virtual worlds. /
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>


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Re: Some questions about recreating history in OpenSim

Miller, Peter
In reply to this post by Mic Bowman
Sounds like a very interesting idea. I don't play at that level but had a go at something that aspired to the rezzing aspect. I think that kind of functionality would be very useful.

http://tidalblog.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/semi-automated-oar-assembly.html

Best wishes

Peter

________________________________________
From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] on behalf of Mic Bowman [[hidden email]]
Sent: 20 August 2012 21:25
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Some questions about recreating history in OpenSim

Just to throw something out...

What about a region module that can play a "log" of events by adding
and removing objects according to some script (add this object here,
remove that one, ...). There are certainly temporal databases that can
determine the "state" of the elements at a particular time...

--mic

On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 10:27 AM, Miller, Peter <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Q: My main issue right now is trying to work out how you create sims that
> represent not only a region in space but also a period in time. I've been
> thinking that I would have a grid that contains regions in which only
> stories from, say, 1950 to 2000 were created. Then another grid would
> represent the same real world area, but contain stories from 1900-1950. The
> further you go back in time, the longer the time intervals would get, along
> an approximately logarithmic scale, so if you were telling stories about the
> dinosaurs one grid would represent the entire Jurassic era, for example.
>
>
>
> A: There's theoretically nothing to stop you doing this as far as I know.
> Different grids use the same coordinate space. In practice there have been
> reports that teleporting to identical locations in two grids can be
> problematic -- to quote:
>
>
>
> "You can’t hypergrid teleport from one destination to another one that has
> exactly the same grid coordinates. This can be a problem for standalones,
> since many use the default 1000,1000 coordinates."
> http://www.hyperica.com/how-to-travel/
>
>
>
> I have no idea whether that is still the case. Of course, incorporating an
> offset would not be difficult.
>
>
>
> One nice thing you can do with OpenSim is to merge regions derived from OARs
> so you could in theory superimpose a succession of eras in a single region.
> Again, there's probably a little more to it than that but it's an
> interesting place to start :)
>
>
>
> Best wishes
>
>
>
> Peter
>
> ________________________________
> From: [hidden email]
> [[hidden email]] on behalf of Lisa Evans
> [[hidden email]]
> Sent: 19 August 2012 18:18
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Opensim-users] Some questions about recreating history in OpenSim
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm very new to OpenSim and just signed up to this list to ask a few
> questions. Sorry if I come across as a bit of a newbie, although I've been
> studying OS for a few days and I have my own standalone grid up and running
> at home.
>
> I'm putting together a proposal for this educational portal run by the ABC
> here in Australia:
>
> http://www.abc.net.au/learn/proposals.htm
>
> My project is all about teaching history, the idea being that students and
> history classes could put together simple sims telling stories about the
> history of their own local area, linking them up with videos, photos,
> essays, etc (which you could hopefully launch from within the sim). Their
> sims would all be linked up in a hypergrid, so students from all over
> Australia (later maybe the world) could get into a virtual time machine and
> visit different places at different times, to see what was happening.
> Students would be able to chat with each other and show each other around
> their creations. Hopefully the act of collaborative world building would
> engage them in learning about history, but I would want them focussed on
> just telling small stories, involving a small number of characters (which
> would be created as NPCs if that's possible, with simple, looping animations
> if not more complex behaviour) and buildings, objects, etc. (I have ideas
> about how to source lots of 3D content, which I need to explore more).
>
> I'm sure none of this is an original idea, but it seems like a good
> opportunity to put an idea like this forward. I just was wondering if anyone
> could tell me whether it would work in OpenSim or if there are some big
> barriers to creating something like this.
>
> My main issue right now is trying to work out how you create sims that
> represent not only a region in space but also a period in time. I've been
> thinking that I would have a grid that contains regions in which only
> stories from, say, 1950 to 2000 were created. Then another grid would
> represent the same real world area, but contain stories from 1900-1950. The
> further you go back in time, the longer the time intervals would get, along
> an approximately logarithmic scale, so if you were telling stories about the
> dinosaurs one grid would represent the entire Jurassic era, for example.
>
> Would this be the right way to go? I've been reading about regions and grids
> and hypergrids but I'm pretty sure there's a lot I don't understand.
>
> My own background is that I've been working in 3D animation for film, TV and
> games for the past decade, as a 3D all rounder and a technical artist. I've
> worked on one big MMO for three years that was never released. So I know
> about 3D modeling, animation, worldbuilding, etc. but I've never spent much
> time around Second Life or OpenSim, so a lot of this is new to me.
>
> Thanks for any help!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Lisa Evans
>
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