Tibetan Classroom OAR

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Tibetan Classroom OAR

William Magee
I have posted my Tibetan Classroom oar on my Taiwan National Science
Council project website. This page describes the contents of the oar
and links to its download site:

http://haa.ddbc.edu.tw/opensim.php

It is a single region oar and everything in it is freely distributed.
Please let me know if you have any problems or questions about it. My
contact info is on that website.

Bill Magee
Dharma Drum Buddhist College
Taiwan
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Re: Tibetan Classroom OAR

Robert Klein
Can the oar file be used with a regular distro instead of the Diva distro?

-Robert
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Re: [Opensim-users] Tibetan Classroom OAR

Karen_Palen
Yes , unless it is from a "mega region" - ordinary regions have coordinates from +- 128, meagregions allow about +-anything!

Otherwise they are identical!

Going "normal" -> mega requires some handling of "phantom prims", but the other way is virgin territory!

Welcome to the wonderful world of alpha software. LOL

Karen

--- On Wed, 1/27/10, Robert Klein <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Robert Klein <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Tibetan Classroom OAR
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Wednesday, January 27, 2010, 3:19 PM
>
> Can the oar file be used with a regular distro instead of
> the Diva distro?
>
> -Robert
> --
> View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Tibetan-Classroom-OAR-tp4284190p4470081.html
> Sent from the opensim-users mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>


     
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Re: [Opensim-users] Tibetan Classroom OAR

Karen_Palen
In reply to this post by Robert Klein
Yes, the format is identical.

NO! if the region is "outside the +- 128 limit of the "standard" region.

Don't you just LOVE exploring new and unexplored software worlds? LMAO.

Seriously, DO NOT use this stuff for a real grid with real assets - THIS IS **ONLY** !!!!ONE!!!! REASON WHY! (Do I make my point here?)

"ALPHA" software is for TESTING ONLY - the developers even say that in tier disclaimers!

"Disclaimers" - You know that "legal stuff" you never read, but that one day you will "sincerely" tell a judge that you read very carefully, understood COMPLETELY and "consulted an attorney" about any doubtful points!

You wonder why judges get just a TAD cynical?

Sigh.

YES we ALL want the neat new features and capabilities, BUT it does come with a "price".

Just because you can't state the US$ value of the "cost" does NOT mean that it has ZERO cost!

For FOSS fanatics that is "free Willy" vs "Free Beer". :-)

I LIKE FREE BEER! (After my third glass of wine LOL)

Karen

--- On Wed, 1/27/10, Robert Klein <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Robert Klein <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Tibetan Classroom OAR
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Wednesday, January 27, 2010, 3:19 PM
>
> Can the oar file be used with a regular distro instead of
> the Diva distro?
>
> -Robert
> --
> View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Tibetan-Classroom-OAR-tp4284190p4470081.html
> Sent from the opensim-users mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>


     
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Re: Tibetan Classroom OAR

William Magee
In reply to this post by Karen_Palen
Dear Robert and Karen,

The OAR was saved from a single region Diva distro sim standing alone
with its own dedicated MySQL database. All prims are within +-128, if
that cool notation means the region is 256X256.

I run it on Diva r11766 but I think you can load it into a release
region. Please be advised that I have not tried that and should
probably post a note to that effect. I will go do that.

Perhaps the neatest thing about the OAR contents (from the non-Tibetan
linguistic point of view) is the media screen which displays the GIF
result of a LaTeX-formatted string typed at the chat line. My server's
LaTeX installation parses Tibetan and such but also formats math
equations - whatever LaTeX can do with a formating string, this thing
will display. It is a cool hack which I received from a math professor
in Second Life.


Cheers,
Bill Magee
http://haa.ddbc.edu.tw/opensim.php




the classroom

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Karen Palen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Yes , unless it is from a "mega region" - ordinary regions have coordinates from +- 128, meagregions allow about +-anything!
>
> Otherwise they are identical!
>
> Going "normal" -> mega requires some handling of "phantom prims", but the other way is virgin territory!
>
> Welcome to the wonderful world of alpha software. LOL
>
> Karen
>
> --- On Wed, 1/27/10, Robert Klein <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> From: Robert Klein <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Tibetan Classroom OAR
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Date: Wednesday, January 27, 2010, 3:19 PM
>>
>> Can the oar file be used with a regular distro instead of
>> the Diva distro?
>>
>> -Robert
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Tibetan-Classroom-OAR-tp4284190p4470081.html
>> Sent from the opensim-users mailing list archive at
>> Nabble.com.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>



--
William Magee, Ph.D.
XVIth Congress of the IABS, Planning Committee Chair
Dharma Drum Buddhist College
Jinshan, Taiwan
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Re: Tibetan Classroom OAR

Karen_Palen
Yes +- 128 refers to the fact that 0,0 is the centre of a normal (256x256) region. Megaregions use 0,0 at the lower left corner of the "base region". Apart form some confusion by users this should work just fine.

However whenever you map coordinates of a large number of objects there are always some "special cases" that might not work as anticipated.

In particular, you do have to be aware that the "base" region in a megaregion contains coordinates which mapped for all of objects in all of the regions!

That is to say, if region A and B form a megaregion that is side by side (A 1000X 1000Y and B 1001X 1000Y) then the objects in "B" will have X coordinates from 256 to 512!

This SHOULD be handled properly if you are going from one megaregion to another, but there are sure to be some problems that have not yet been discovered. :-(

BTW I agree that having LaTex formatting for text is a great asset, especially when using non-European languages.

Karen

--- On Thu, 1/28/10, William Magee <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: William Magee <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Tibetan Classroom OAR
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 11:47 AM
> Dear Robert and Karen,
>
> The OAR was saved from a single region Diva distro sim
> standing alone
> with its own dedicated MySQL database. All prims are within
> +-128, if
> that cool notation means the region is 256X256.
>
> I run it on Diva r11766 but I think you can load it into a
> release
> region. Please be advised that I have not tried that and
> should
> probably post a note to that effect. I will go do that.
>
> Perhaps the neatest thing about the OAR contents (from the
> non-Tibetan
> linguistic point of view) is the media screen which
> displays the GIF
> result of a LaTeX-formatted string typed at the chat line.
> My server's
> LaTeX installation parses Tibetan and such but also formats
> math
> equations - whatever LaTeX can do with a formating string,
> this thing
> will display. It is a cool hack which I received from a
> math professor
> in Second Life.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Bill Magee
> http://haa.ddbc.edu.tw/opensim.php
>
>
>
>
> the classroom
>
> On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Karen Palen <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > Yes , unless it is from a "mega region" - ordinary
> regions have coordinates from +- 128, meagregions allow
> about +-anything!
> >
> > Otherwise they are identical!
> >
> > Going "normal" -> mega requires some handling of
> "phantom prims", but the other way is virgin territory!
> >
> > Welcome to the wonderful world of alpha software. LOL
> >
> > Karen
> >
> > --- On Wed, 1/27/10, Robert Klein <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Robert Klein <[hidden email]>
> >> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Tibetan Classroom
> OAR
> >> To: [hidden email]
> >> Date: Wednesday, January 27, 2010, 3:19 PM
> >>
> >> Can the oar file be used with a regular distro
> instead of
> >> the Diva distro?
> >>
> >> -Robert
> >> --
> >> View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Tibetan-Classroom-OAR-tp4284190p4470081.html
> >> Sent from the opensim-users mailing list archive
> at
> >> Nabble.com.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Opensim-users mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Opensim-users mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
> >
>
>
>
> --
> William Magee, Ph.D.
> XVIth Congress of the IABS, Planning Committee Chair
> Dharma Drum Buddhist College
> Jinshan, Taiwan
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>


     
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Re: Tibetan Classroom OAR

Robert Klein
In reply to this post by William Magee
Hey Bill,

I tried clicking on the link http://magee.ddbc.edu.tw/opensim/Tibetan_Classroom.oar and the saving file window pops up but nothing ever transfers. Is there something wrong with the server?

-Robert
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Re: Tibetan Classroom OAR

Karen_Palen
Same problem here - Firefox 3.5.7 under Ubuntu Linux 9.10

Karen

--- On Thu, 1/28/10, Robert Klein <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: Robert Klein <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Tibetan Classroom OAR
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 8:56 PM
>
> Hey Bill,
>
> I tried clicking on the link
> http://magee.ddbc.edu.tw/opensim/Tibetan_Classroom.oar
> and the saving file
> window pops up but nothing ever transfers. Is there
> something wrong with the
> server?
>
> -Robert
> --
> View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Tibetan-Classroom-OAR-tp4284190p4478082.html
> Sent from the opensim-users mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>


     
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Re: Tibetan Classroom OAR

William Magee
Strange, it is working for me with both Chrome and Firefox browsers.
Have you tried right-clicking it and saving?

On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Karen Palen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Same problem here - Firefox 3.5.7 under Ubuntu Linux 9.10
>
> Karen
>
> --- On Thu, 1/28/10, Robert Klein <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> From: Robert Klein <[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Tibetan Classroom OAR
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Date: Thursday, January 28, 2010, 8:56 PM
>>
>> Hey Bill,
>>
>> I tried clicking on the link
>> http://magee.ddbc.edu.tw/opensim/Tibetan_Classroom.oar
>> and the saving file
>> window pops up but nothing ever transfers. Is there
>> something wrong with the
>> server?
>>
>> -Robert
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Tibetan-Classroom-OAR-tp4284190p4478082.html
>> Sent from the opensim-users mailing list archive at
>> Nabble.com.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>



--
William Magee, Ph.D.
XVIth Congress of the IABS, Planning Committee Chair
Dharma Drum Buddhist College
Jinshan, Taiwan
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[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
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Re: Tibetan Classroom OAR

James Stallings II
Namaste :)

Just to clear up any confusion about oar files - they are simple compressed xml representations of the regions' content and the assets required to reproduce them. The xml embeds object coordinates; the coordinates are taken directly from the objects.

As a result, it is certainly possible to load oars of one size and configuration on opensim instances of a different size and configuration. Results are predictable but not necessarily desirable. Terrains may exhibit bizarre artifacting and objects may be 'off-world'  if the oar size exceeds the target region size on any given axis.

Which brings us to coordinates: there is no practical use of a notation like "+/-128" in this context. I've never seen it used before and it is clearly leading to some confusion in this instance.

In opensim, region coordinates (the coordinates used to position regions on the grid), are in meters. Region cells (a subunit in opensim who's distinction is not meaningful in secondlife), are 256 meters on a side (identical to a canonical secondlife region). All objects in canonical region will have x/y coordinates that satisfy the condition '255>coordinate>0'. These may be combined into megaregions.

When a megaregion is in use, all the objects on the megaregion will, under normal circumstances, be present in the root region's database tables. They will have x/y coordinates that satisfy the condition '(subregions_along_the_axis*255)>coordinate>0'.

Diva Cantu has a workflow for merging simple regions and their contents into a single megaregion. I have not experienced success in my attempts with this workflow; this doesnt mean it is not effective; it means my attempts with it haven't been. That said, I'd suggest making backups at critical points in the process to avoid loss of content.

I hope I have brought light into the shade with this post :)


Cheers!
James


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Re: Tibetan Classroom OAR

William Magee
Sorry, I had the permissions set wrong. The Tibetan classroom OAR
should now be downloadable. Please contact me with any problems,

http://haa.ddbc.edu.tw/opensim.php

Cheers,
Bill
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Region coordinate confusion (was Re: Tibetan Classroom OAR

Karen_Palen
In reply to this post by James Stallings II
You are correct about the +-128 notation, I am used to that notation from some other software and I was the one confused. I apologize if that confusion has spread to others.

For the rest, you have outlined the theory of what should be the mapping between a megaregion and a "simple" region.

I have actually used Diva's workflow as intended and it works quite well.

However any graphical mapping is fraught with unexpected "special cases" which appear as bizarre results to the user.

Other than the specific scenario that Diva explored, transformations between megaregions and "simple" regions is still pretty much untested.

I have managed to cause database corruption by moving OAR files between "simple" regions and megaregions. Corruption bad enough to require rebuilding of the entire database!

I have not taken the time to explore and analyse the causes of these problems yet, but clearly great caution is required!

Bottom line: this feature needs testing, it should not (yet) be used for a system that has active users!

Karen

--- On Fri, 1/29/10, James Stallings II <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: James Stallings II <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Tibetan Classroom OAR
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Friday, January 29, 2010, 6:45 AM
> Namaste :)
> Just to clear up any confusion about oar files - they
> are simple compressed xml representations of the
> regions' content and the assets required to reproduce
> them. The xml embeds object coordinates; the coordinates are
> taken directly from the objects.
>
> As a result, it is certainly possible to load
> oars of one size and configuration on opensim instances of a
> different size and configuration. Results are predictable
> but not necessarily desirable. Terrains may exhibit bizarre
> artifacting and objects may be 'off-world'  if the
> oar size exceeds the target region size on any given
> axis.
>
> Which brings us to coordinates: there is no
> practical use of a notation like "+/-128" in this
> context. I've never seen it used before and it is
> clearly leading to some confusion in this instance.
>
> In opensim, region coordinates (the coordinates
> used to position regions on the grid), are in meters. Region
> cells (a subunit in opensim who's distinction is not
> meaningful in secondlife), are 256 meters on a side
> (identical to a canonical secondlife region). All objects in
> canonical region will have x/y coordinates that satisfy the
> condition '255>coordinate>0'. These may be
> combined into megaregions.
>
> When a megaregion is in use, all the objects on
> the megaregion will, under normal circumstances, be present
> in the root region's database tables. They will have x/y
> coordinates that satisfy the condition
> '(subregions_along_the_axis*255)>coordinate>0'.
>
> Diva Cantu has a workflow for merging simple
> regions and their contents into a single megaregion. I have
> not experienced success in my attempts with this workflow;
> this doesnt mean it is not effective; it means my attempts
> with it haven't been. That said, I'd suggest making
> backups at critical points in the process to avoid loss of
> content.
>
> I hope I have brought light into the shade with
> this post :)
>
> Cheers!James
> --
> ===================================
> http://osgrid.org http://simhost.com
>
> http://del.icio.us/SPQR
> http://twitter.com/jstallings2
> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/5/770/a49
>
>
>
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>


     
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