What happens when you forget to check your sims..

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What happens when you forget to check your sims..

Fleep Tuque
Hi all,

If any of you were following the long email thread on opensim-users about intermittent crashing and out of memory exceptions, you may recall I just figured out how to spread regions across multiple opensim instances.  (If you missed the thread, see http://opensim-users.2152040.n2.nabble.com/Intermittent-crashing-System-OutofMemoryException-td7281298.html.)

So today, the HGAC folks came to visit FleepGrid and things went relatively well, and after it was over I thought I'd follow Rick's suggestion and load each sim one at a time to see how much memory they used and general performance for each region.  Considering FleepGrid is running on an old P4 with 4GB RAM, I've been relatively pleased with its performance with around 11 regions, some of them with lots of content and scripts.  The only major concern has been the CPU consistently pegging around 75-80% usage after all the scripts are loaded (it always hits 100% during start up).

Imagine my surprise when I loaded each sim one at a time and was seeing virtually no CPU load after the scripts finished loading, region after region, even when I started adding them back cumulatively, CPU load was hovering around 2%!  What the heck was going on, I wondered, the only regions I had left to load were my three hypergate regions which are basically small islands with a few signs and very few scripts or objects.

Lo and behold, I added HGate 1000 and suddenly the CPU load shot back up to 78% after scripts finished loading.  I couldn't imagine what the heck was going on with that nearly empty region but upon investigation, I discovered 600 spheres set to physical under the waterline, each taking up precious CPU resources.  

The long and short of it is, I hadn't checked those regions in ages because they're just simple hypergate jump points and I didn't think anything in particular was going on there, but those darn physical balls have been chewing up my CPU (and making the $#%^@$ loud fan run all day and night) for goodness knows how long, PLUS whatever performance hit the whole grid suffered as a result of my inattentiveness.  Hopefully this will mean a lot less laggy experience on FleepGrid and a lot less stress on my poor old PC (which I'm completely surprised was even able to handle 600 physical objects at once!). 

So just a friendly reminder to myself and you to check your sims periodically for griefer crap.  And curses to user "Jack Marioline" wherever you are.  :P

- Chris/Fleep




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Re: What happens when you forget to check your sims..

Shaun T. Erickson
Salad Boy strikes again! He did the same thing to me a few months ago. 

-ste

On Feb 21, 2012, at 5:28 PM, Fleep Tuque <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi all,

If any of you were following the long email thread on opensim-users about intermittent crashing and out of memory exceptions, you may recall I just figured out how to spread regions across multiple opensim instances.  (If you missed the thread, see http://opensim-users.2152040.n2.nabble.com/Intermittent-crashing-System-OutofMemoryException-td7281298.html.)

So today, the HGAC folks came to visit FleepGrid and things went relatively well, and after it was over I thought I'd follow Rick's suggestion and load each sim one at a time to see how much memory they used and general performance for each region.  Considering FleepGrid is running on an old P4 with 4GB RAM, I've been relatively pleased with its performance with around 11 regions, some of them with lots of content and scripts.  The only major concern has been the CPU consistently pegging around 75-80% usage after all the scripts are loaded (it always hits 100% during start up).

Imagine my surprise when I loaded each sim one at a time and was seeing virtually no CPU load after the scripts finished loading, region after region, even when I started adding them back cumulatively, CPU load was hovering around 2%!  What the heck was going on, I wondered, the only regions I had left to load were my three hypergate regions which are basically small islands with a few signs and very few scripts or objects.

Lo and behold, I added HGate 1000 and suddenly the CPU load shot back up to 78% after scripts finished loading.  I couldn't imagine what the heck was going on with that nearly empty region but upon investigation, I discovered 600 spheres set to physical under the waterline, each taking up precious CPU resources.  

The long and short of it is, I hadn't checked those regions in ages because they're just simple hypergate jump points and I didn't think anything in particular was going on there, but those darn physical balls have been chewing up my CPU (and making the $#%^@$ loud fan run all day and night) for goodness knows how long, PLUS whatever performance hit the whole grid suffered as a result of my inattentiveness.  Hopefully this will mean a lot less laggy experience on FleepGrid and a lot less stress on my poor old PC (which I'm completely surprised was even able to handle 600 physical objects at once!). 

So just a friendly reminder to myself and you to check your sims periodically for griefer crap.  And curses to user "Jack Marioline" wherever you are.  :P

- Chris/Fleep



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Re: What happens when you forget to check your sims..

R.Gunther
First thing i asking myself, how could things be rezzed on HG region. Its not smart to allow any scripts or objects to run or rezz.
Its anyway asking for problems to keep that enabled.

If you run linux, there some tools like monit that show you in webinterface at 1 clane if there's something wrong with cpu or memory of a region.
You only need to have regions split 1:1 what i do for years. also if 1 region crash you dont tear others down.

happy you found the problem


On 2012-02-21 23:48, Shaun Erickson wrote:
Salad Boy strikes again! He did the same thing to me a few months ago. 

-ste

On Feb 21, 2012, at 5:28 PM, Fleep Tuque <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi all,

If any of you were following the long email thread on opensim-users about intermittent crashing and out of memory exceptions, you may recall I just figured out how to spread regions across multiple opensim instances.  (If you missed the thread, see http://opensim-users.2152040.n2.nabble.com/Intermittent-crashing-System-OutofMemoryException-td7281298.html.)

So today, the HGAC folks came to visit FleepGrid and things went relatively well, and after it was over I thought I'd follow Rick's suggestion and load each sim one at a time to see how much memory they used and general performance for each region.  Considering FleepGrid is running on an old P4 with 4GB RAM, I've been relatively pleased with its performance with around 11 regions, some of them with lots of content and scripts.  The only major concern has been the CPU consistently pegging around 75-80% usage after all the scripts are loaded (it always hits 100% during start up).

Imagine my surprise when I loaded each sim one at a time and was seeing virtually no CPU load after the scripts finished loading, region after region, even when I started adding them back cumulatively, CPU load was hovering around 2%!  What the heck was going on, I wondered, the only regions I had left to load were my three hypergate regions which are basically small islands with a few signs and very few scripts or objects.

Lo and behold, I added HGate 1000 and suddenly the CPU load shot back up to 78% after scripts finished loading.  I couldn't imagine what the heck was going on with that nearly empty region but upon investigation, I discovered 600 spheres set to physical under the waterline, each taking up precious CPU resources.  

The long and short of it is, I hadn't checked those regions in ages because they're just simple hypergate jump points and I didn't think anything in particular was going on there, but those darn physical balls have been chewing up my CPU (and making the $#%^@$ loud fan run all day and night) for goodness knows how long, PLUS whatever performance hit the whole grid suffered as a result of my inattentiveness.  Hopefully this will mean a lot less laggy experience on FleepGrid and a lot less stress on my poor old PC (which I'm completely surprised was even able to handle 600 physical objects at once!). 

So just a friendly reminder to myself and you to check your sims periodically for griefer crap.  And curses to user "Jack Marioline" wherever you are.  :P

- Chris/Fleep



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Re: What happens when you forget to check your sims..

Lindy (McKeown) Orwin
In reply to this post by Shaun T. Erickson
Thanks for the heads up Fleep
A google search seems to show he has been actively painful in many places. 
Sad. Lesson shared may save the rest of us. Time to make a ban list.

Lindy 

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Cell: <a href="tel:360%20536%205047" value="+13605365047" target="_blank">360 536 5047 (USA)
Skype Number : 07 3103 3106 (From Australian phones only)
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Web: http://lindyorwin.com
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and
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"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." Albert Einstein


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Re: What happens when you forget to check your sims..

Fleep Tuque
In reply to this post by R.Gunther
I'm probably asking for trouble posting to the whole wide listserv, but..  I'm philosophically opposed to turning off public build unless it's truly necessary.  

To me, the most important and magical aspect of the SL and Opensim platforms is the ability to collaboratively create user generated content and _to invite others to do the same_.  The possibility for a visitor to leave something creative for others to see or use (stigmergy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stigmergy) is what sets these platforms apart from others.  I like discovering what users leave behind and 99% of the time it is not griefing activity at all. 

And before you say you're shocked and how that never works, we have a multi-sim mainland community in Second Life that has had public build turned on for going on 6 years.  It just requires a little extra effort to keep things tidy, and the benefits have far outweighed the risk/work required to keep the tiny minority of jerks at bay.  Visitors can always open packages and play with the things they discover in our space, and they can share things with the community or even add to it - we just reserve editorial rights of course.  hehe.

In any case, the fault was really mine for not checking my sims periodically, and that was the reminder I wanted to share (and a little grouching about the griefer).   But considering FleepGrid has been up for over a year and a half and in that time people have left gifts, funny joke items, shared freebies, and opened lots of boxes but this is the first griefing activity I've seen..  I think that's a good argument for leaving public build on - you might be surprised at the nice things you find.  ;)  (So long as you clean up periodically!)

- Chris/Fleep


On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 5:59 PM, R.Gunther <[hidden email]> wrote:
First thing i asking myself, how could things be rezzed on HG region. Its not smart to allow any scripts or objects to run or rezz.
Its anyway asking for problems to keep that enabled.

If you run linux, there some tools like monit that show you in webinterface at 1 clane if there's something wrong with cpu or memory of a region.
You only need to have regions split 1:1 what i do for years. also if 1 region crash you dont tear others down.

happy you found the problem



On 2012-02-21 23:48, Shaun Erickson wrote:
Salad Boy strikes again! He did the same thing to me a few months ago. 

-ste

On Feb 21, 2012, at 5:28 PM, Fleep Tuque <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi all,

If any of you were following the long email thread on opensim-users about intermittent crashing and out of memory exceptions, you may recall I just figured out how to spread regions across multiple opensim instances.  (If you missed the thread, see http://opensim-users.2152040.n2.nabble.com/Intermittent-crashing-System-OutofMemoryException-td7281298.html.)

So today, the HGAC folks came to visit FleepGrid and things went relatively well, and after it was over I thought I'd follow Rick's suggestion and load each sim one at a time to see how much memory they used and general performance for each region.  Considering FleepGrid is running on an old P4 with 4GB RAM, I've been relatively pleased with its performance with around 11 regions, some of them with lots of content and scripts.  The only major concern has been the CPU consistently pegging around 75-80% usage after all the scripts are loaded (it always hits 100% during start up).

Imagine my surprise when I loaded each sim one at a time and was seeing virtually no CPU load after the scripts finished loading, region after region, even when I started adding them back cumulatively, CPU load was hovering around 2%!  What the heck was going on, I wondered, the only regions I had left to load were my three hypergate regions which are basically small islands with a few signs and very few scripts or objects.

Lo and behold, I added HGate 1000 and suddenly the CPU load shot back up to 78% after scripts finished loading.  I couldn't imagine what the heck was going on with that nearly empty region but upon investigation, I discovered 600 spheres set to physical under the waterline, each taking up precious CPU resources.  

The long and short of it is, I hadn't checked those regions in ages because they're just simple hypergate jump points and I didn't think anything in particular was going on there, but those darn physical balls have been chewing up my CPU (and making the $#%^@$ loud fan run all day and night) for goodness knows how long, PLUS whatever performance hit the whole grid suffered as a result of my inattentiveness.  Hopefully this will mean a lot less laggy experience on FleepGrid and a lot less stress on my poor old PC (which I'm completely surprised was even able to handle 600 physical objects at once!). 

So just a friendly reminder to myself and you to check your sims periodically for griefer crap.  And curses to user "Jack Marioline" wherever you are.  :P

- Chris/Fleep



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Re: What happens when you forget to check your sims..

Vanish-2
I'm with Fleep here. While "griefing" is a nuisance, it's typically very  
easily remedied by either restarting the simulator, or - at worst -  
reverting to a previous backup. If anything, I'd encourage people to do  
regular backups and not neccessarily to rely on server-side restrictions  
that may or may not work, but will certainly make life harder for the  
wrong people. The griefers will find a way around them; for them it's a  
sport, and the harder the obstacle, the more determined they are to  
overcome it. I think OpenSim even has some kind of auto-backup feature  
lately that saves regions as OARs. (I'm using the old and dull MySQL dump  
that works just as well.)

Shaka
V

> I'm probably asking for trouble posting to the whole wide listserv, but..
>  I'm philosophically opposed to turning off public build unless it's  
> truly
> necessary.
>
> To me, the most important and magical aspect of the SL and Opensim
> platforms is the ability to collaboratively create user generated content
> and _to invite others to do the same_.  The possibility for a visitor to
> leave something creative for others to see or use (stigmergy
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stigmergy) is what sets these platforms  
> apart
> from others.  I like discovering what users leave behind and 99% of the
> time it is not griefing activity at all.
>
> And before you say you're shocked and how that never works, we have a
> multi-sim mainland community in Second Life that has had public build
> turned on for going on 6 years.  It just requires a little extra effort  
> to
> keep things tidy, and the benefits have far outweighed the risk/work
> required to keep the tiny minority of jerks at bay.  Visitors can always
> open packages and play with the things they discover in our space, and  
> they
> can share things with the community or even add to it - we just reserve
> editorial rights of course.  hehe.
>
> In any case, the fault was really mine for not checking my sims
> periodically, and that was the reminder I wanted to share (and a little
> grouching about the griefer).   But considering FleepGrid has been up for
> over a year and a half and in that time people have left gifts, funny  
> joke
> items, shared freebies, and opened lots of boxes but this is the first
> griefing activity I've seen..  I think that's a good argument for leaving
> public build on - you might be surprised at the nice things you find.  ;)
>  (So long as you clean up periodically!)
>
> - Chris/Fleep
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 5:59 PM, R.Gunther <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>  First thing i asking myself, how could things be rezzed on HG region.  
>> Its
>> not smart to allow any scripts or objects to run or rezz.
>> Its anyway asking for problems to keep that enabled.
>>
>> If you run linux, there some tools like monit that show you in
>> webinterface at 1 clane if there's something wrong with cpu or memory  
>> of a
>> region.
>> You only need to have regions split 1:1 what i do for years. also if 1
>> region crash you dont tear others down.
>>
>> happy you found the problem
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2012-02-21 23:48, Shaun Erickson wrote:
>>
>> Salad Boy strikes again! He did the same thing to me a few months ago.
>>
>> -ste
>>
>> On Feb 21, 2012, at 5:28 PM, Fleep Tuque <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>  Hi all,
>>
>>  If any of you were following the long email thread on opensim-users
>> about intermittent crashing and out of memory exceptions, you may  
>> recall I
>> just figured out how to spread regions across multiple opensim  
>> instances.
>>  (If you missed the thread, see
>> http://opensim-users.2152040.n2.nabble.com/Intermittent-crashing-System-OutofMemoryException-td7281298.html
>> .)
>>
>>  So today, the HGAC folks came to visit FleepGrid and things went
>> relatively well, and after it was over I thought I'd follow Rick's
>> suggestion and load each sim one at a time to see how much memory they  
>> used
>> and general performance for each region.  Considering FleepGrid is  
>> running
>> on an old P4 with 4GB RAM, I've been relatively pleased with its
>> performance with around 11 regions, some of them with lots of content  
>> and
>> scripts.  The only major concern has been the CPU consistently pegging
>> around 75-80% usage after all the scripts are loaded (it always hits  
>> 100%
>> during start up).
>>
>>  Imagine my surprise when I loaded each sim one at a time and was seeing
>> virtually no CPU load after the scripts finished loading, region after
>> region, even when I started adding them back cumulatively, CPU load was
>> hovering around 2%!  What the heck was going on, I wondered, the only
>> regions I had left to load were my three hypergate regions which are
>> basically small islands with a few signs and very few scripts or  
>> objects.
>>
>>  Lo and behold, I added HGate 1000 and suddenly the CPU load shot back  
>> up
>> to 78% after scripts finished loading.  I couldn't imagine what the heck
>> was going on with that nearly empty region but upon investigation, I
>> discovered 600 spheres set to physical under the waterline, each taking  
>> up
>> precious CPU resources.
>>
>>  The long and short of it is, I hadn't checked those regions in ages
>> because they're just simple hypergate jump points and I didn't think
>> anything in particular was going on there, but those darn physical balls
>> have been chewing up my CPU (and making the $#%^@$ loud fan run all day  
>> and
>> night) for goodness knows how long, PLUS whatever performance hit the  
>> whole
>> grid suffered as a result of my inattentiveness.  Hopefully this will  
>> mean
>> a lot less laggy experience on FleepGrid and a lot less stress on my  
>> poor
>> old PC (which I'm completely surprised was even able to handle 600  
>> physical
>> objects at once!).
>>
>>  So just a friendly reminder to myself and you to check your sims
>> periodically for griefer crap.  And curses to user "Jack Marioline"
>> wherever you are.  :P
>>
>>  - Chris/Fleep
>>
>>
>>
>>   _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing  
>> [hidden email]://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>
>>


--
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This Great ImBalance, that I’ve seen,
That Trees Got Icy Branches and,
The Good In Bad, That God I’ve Been.

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Re: What happens when you forget to check your sims..

Chris Hart-2
We've seen that guy before - one useful thing you can do is disable physical primitives for public build regions by tweaking your opensim.ini file:

In the [Startup] section:

physical_prim = false

You can still walk around as normal and rez objects, but you won't end up buried in physical spheres.

Hope this helps,

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Vanish
Sent: 21 February 2012 18:35
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] What happens when you forget to check your sims..

I'm with Fleep here. While "griefing" is a nuisance, it's typically very easily remedied by either restarting the simulator, or - at worst - reverting to a previous backup. If anything, I'd encourage people to do regular backups and not neccessarily to rely on server-side restrictions that may or may not work, but will certainly make life harder for the wrong people. The griefers will find a way around them; for them it's a sport, and the harder the obstacle, the more determined they are to overcome it. I think OpenSim even has some kind of auto-backup feature lately that saves regions as OARs. (I'm using the old and dull MySQL dump that works just as well.)

Shaka
V

> I'm probably asking for trouble posting to the whole wide listserv, but..
>  I'm philosophically opposed to turning off public build unless it's
> truly necessary.
>
> To me, the most important and magical aspect of the SL and Opensim
> platforms is the ability to collaboratively create user generated
> content and _to invite others to do the same_.  The possibility for a
> visitor to leave something creative for others to see or use
> (stigmergy
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stigmergy) is what sets these platforms
> apart from others.  I like discovering what users leave behind and 99%
> of the time it is not griefing activity at all.
>
> And before you say you're shocked and how that never works, we have a
> multi-sim mainland community in Second Life that has had public build
> turned on for going on 6 years.  It just requires a little extra
> effort to keep things tidy, and the benefits have far outweighed the
> risk/work required to keep the tiny minority of jerks at bay.  
> Visitors can always open packages and play with the things they
> discover in our space, and they can share things with the community or
> even add to it - we just reserve editorial rights of course.  hehe.
>
> In any case, the fault was really mine for not checking my sims
> periodically, and that was the reminder I wanted to share (and a little
> grouching about the griefer).   But considering FleepGrid has been up for
> over a year and a half and in that time people have left gifts, funny
> joke items, shared freebies, and opened lots of boxes but this is the
> first griefing activity I've seen..  I think that's a good argument
> for leaving public build on - you might be surprised at the nice
> things you find.  ;)  (So long as you clean up periodically!)
>
> - Chris/Fleep
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 5:59 PM, R.Gunther <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>  First thing i asking myself, how could things be rezzed on HG region.  
>> Its
>> not smart to allow any scripts or objects to run or rezz.
>> Its anyway asking for problems to keep that enabled.
>>
>> If you run linux, there some tools like monit that show you in
>> webinterface at 1 clane if there's something wrong with cpu or memory
>> of a region.
>> You only need to have regions split 1:1 what i do for years. also if
>> 1 region crash you dont tear others down.
>>
>> happy you found the problem
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2012-02-21 23:48, Shaun Erickson wrote:
>>
>> Salad Boy strikes again! He did the same thing to me a few months ago.
>>
>> -ste
>>
>> On Feb 21, 2012, at 5:28 PM, Fleep Tuque <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>  Hi all,
>>
>>  If any of you were following the long email thread on opensim-users
>> about intermittent crashing and out of memory exceptions, you may
>> recall I just figured out how to spread regions across multiple
>> opensim instances.
>>  (If you missed the thread, see
>> http://opensim-users.2152040.n2.nabble.com/Intermittent-crashing-Syst
>> em-OutofMemoryException-td7281298.html
>> .)
>>
>>  So today, the HGAC folks came to visit FleepGrid and things went
>> relatively well, and after it was over I thought I'd follow Rick's
>> suggestion and load each sim one at a time to see how much memory
>> they used and general performance for each region.  Considering
>> FleepGrid is running on an old P4 with 4GB RAM, I've been relatively
>> pleased with its performance with around 11 regions, some of them
>> with lots of content and scripts.  The only major concern has been
>> the CPU consistently pegging around 75-80% usage after all the
>> scripts are loaded (it always hits 100% during start up).
>>
>>  Imagine my surprise when I loaded each sim one at a time and was
>> seeing virtually no CPU load after the scripts finished loading,
>> region after region, even when I started adding them back
>> cumulatively, CPU load was hovering around 2%!  What the heck was
>> going on, I wondered, the only regions I had left to load were my
>> three hypergate regions which are basically small islands with a few
>> signs and very few scripts or objects.
>>
>>  Lo and behold, I added HGate 1000 and suddenly the CPU load shot
>> back up to 78% after scripts finished loading.  I couldn't imagine
>> what the heck was going on with that nearly empty region but upon
>> investigation, I discovered 600 spheres set to physical under the
>> waterline, each taking up precious CPU resources.
>>
>>  The long and short of it is, I hadn't checked those regions in ages
>> because they're just simple hypergate jump points and I didn't think
>> anything in particular was going on there, but those darn physical
>> balls have been chewing up my CPU (and making the $#%^@$ loud fan run
>> all day and
>> night) for goodness knows how long, PLUS whatever performance hit the
>> whole grid suffered as a result of my inattentiveness.  Hopefully
>> this will mean a lot less laggy experience on FleepGrid and a lot
>> less stress on my poor old PC (which I'm completely surprised was
>> even able to handle 600 physical objects at once!).
>>
>>  So just a friendly reminder to myself and you to check your sims
>> periodically for griefer crap.  And curses to user "Jack Marioline"
>> wherever you are.  :P
>>
>>  - Chris/Fleep
>>
>>
>>
>>   _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing
>> [hidden email]://lists.berlios.de/mailman/li
>> stinfo/opensim-users
>>
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--
The Twilight’s Green Illuminate Beam,
This Great ImBalance, that I’ve seen,
That Trees Got Icy Branches and,
The Good In Bad, That God I’ve Been.

http://tgib.co.uk/
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