Why do I get "Region too far" when using hypergrid?

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Why do I get "Region too far" when using hypergrid?

Michael Huntington
I've been using dynamic hypergrid lately (and love it) but sometimes I get the error message "Region is too far".... why is this?

From my understanding Hypergrid is supposed to work like the internet today where we can enter a URL and go to that location ... In the virtual world will some locations be out of our reach??

I kinda understand hypergrid but "Region too far" is the only subject where I'm completely lost..

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Re: Why do I get "Region too far" when using hypergrid?

Rhian
I'm not 100% sure on this, but somewhere in the wiki (and I can't find it right now) is stated that there is a Viewer limit to teleport more than 4096 regions far. So if you attempt to use the TP/HG from a location on 1000, 1000 to 5100, 1000, theoretically it will fail.


On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 9:14 AM, Michael Huntington <[hidden email]> wrote:
I've been using dynamic hypergrid lately (and love it) but sometimes I get the error message "Region is too far".... why is this?

From my understanding Hypergrid is supposed to work like the internet today where we can enter a URL and go to that location ... In the virtual world will some locations be out of our reach??

I kinda understand hypergrid but "Region too far" is the only subject where I'm completely lost..

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Re: Why do I get "Region too far" when using hypergrid?

Michael Huntington
Thanks Rhian,

Do you, or anyone else have any idea if this limitation is being removed in the near future? Or is this something we'll just have to live with?

Thanks again.

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 3:41 AM, Rhian <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'm not 100% sure on this, but somewhere in the wiki (and I can't find it right now) is stated that there is a Viewer limit to teleport more than 4096 regions far. So if you attempt to use the TP/HG from a location on 1000, 1000 to 5100, 1000, theoretically it will fail.


On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 9:14 AM, Michael Huntington <[hidden email]> wrote:
I've been using dynamic hypergrid lately (and love it) but sometimes I get the error message "Region is too far".... why is this?

From my understanding Hypergrid is supposed to work like the internet today where we can enter a URL and go to that location ... In the virtual world will some locations be out of our reach??

I kinda understand hypergrid but "Region too far" is the only subject where I'm completely lost..

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Re: Why do I get "Region too far" when using hypergrid?

Kyle Hamilton
This is a limitation of the Second Life viewer protocol, not something
that can easily be worked around by the OpenSim team.  Sorry. :(

-Kyle H

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 12:46 AM, Michael Huntington <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thanks Rhian,
> Do you, or anyone else have any idea if this limitation is being removed in
> the near future? Or is this something we'll just have to live with?
> Thanks again.
>
> On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 3:41 AM, Rhian <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I'm not 100% sure on this, but somewhere in the wiki (and I can't find it
>> right now) is stated that there is a Viewer limit to teleport more than 4096
>> regions far. So if you attempt to use the TP/HG from a location on 1000,
>> 1000 to 5100, 1000, theoretically it will fail.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 9:14 AM, Michael Huntington <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I've been using dynamic hypergrid lately (and love it) but sometimes I
>>> get the error message "Region is too far".... why is this?
>>> From my understanding Hypergrid is supposed to work like the internet
>>> today where we can enter a URL and go to that location ... In the virtual
>>> world will some locations be out of our reach??
>>> I kinda understand hypergrid but "Region too far" is the only subject
>>> where I'm completely lost..
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>
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Re: Why do I get "Region too far" when using hypergrid?

Diva Canto
Information about this viewer bug:
https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2941

The bug has been revisited by Linden Lab staff sometime in early December because of the Hypergrid, but they concluded that the assumption behind this is too fundamental to be acted upon any time soon. So this is something we have to live with while using LL-based viewers. But that Jira is still open, so please vote and tell your friends to vote too. Maybe if enough people want this fixed they will fix it.

Recently, code has been added to OpenSim that checks for the distance, so that people don't end up with empty screens after those TPs.

To compensate for this viewer limitation, there are two gateways that people can use to bridge between grids in lower 1000s and upper 10000s (which are most grids):

<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="secondlife://ucigrid04.nacs.uci.edu:9003/">secondlife://ucigrid04.nacs.uci.edu:9003/  (a region at 3000, 3000)
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="secondlife://ucigrid04.nacs.uci.edu:9007/">secondlife://ucigrid04.nacs.uci.edu:9007/  (a region at 7000, 7000)

So, hop to the nearest gateway, TP to the other using one of the teleporters there (or the map searching "Gateway 3000" / "Gateway 7000"), and proceed to wherever you want to go.

Kyle Hamilton wrote:
This is a limitation of the Second Life viewer protocol, not something
that can easily be worked around by the OpenSim team.  Sorry. :(

-Kyle H

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 12:46 AM, Michael Huntington [hidden email] wrote:
  
Thanks Rhian,
Do you, or anyone else have any idea if this limitation is being removed in
the near future? Or is this something we'll just have to live with?
Thanks again.

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 3:41 AM, Rhian [hidden email] wrote:
    
I'm not 100% sure on this, but somewhere in the wiki (and I can't find it
right now) is stated that there is a Viewer limit to teleport more than 4096
regions far. So if you attempt to use the TP/HG from a location on 1000,
1000 to 5100, 1000, theoretically it will fail.


On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 9:14 AM, Michael Huntington [hidden email]
wrote:
      
I've been using dynamic hypergrid lately (and love it) but sometimes I
get the error message "Region is too far".... why is this?
From my understanding Hypergrid is supposed to work like the internet
today where we can enter a URL and go to that location ... In the virtual
world will some locations be out of our reach??
I kinda understand hypergrid but "Region too far" is the only subject
where I'm completely lost..
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Re: Why do I get "Region too far" when using hypergrid?

Michael Huntington
Thanks Diva,

This is a little off topic but just wanted to let you know I visited:


and it seems someone has trashed the place.. and put nude photos as textures on some prims.... Also while there I noticed I was able to control the Estate settings ... and just to make sure this wasn't a mistake.. I hypergrided over to my OSGrid sim (which belongs to another user of mine) ... I was also able to control the Estate and move objects around that didn't belong to me.

Is this a HyperGrid bug?

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 8:11 AM, Diva Canto <[hidden email]> wrote:
Information about this viewer bug:
https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2941

The bug has been revisited by Linden Lab staff sometime in early December because of the Hypergrid, but they concluded that the assumption behind this is too fundamental to be acted upon any time soon. So this is something we have to live with while using LL-based viewers. But that Jira is still open, so please vote and tell your friends to vote too. Maybe if enough people want this fixed they will fix it.

Recently, code has been added to OpenSim that checks for the distance, so that people don't end up with empty screens after those TPs.

To compensate for this viewer limitation, there are two gateways that people can use to bridge between grids in lower 1000s and upper 10000s (which are most grids):

secondlife://ucigrid04.nacs.uci.edu:9003/  (a region at 3000, 3000)
secondlife://ucigrid04.nacs.uci.edu:9007/  (a region at 7000, 7000)

So, hop to the nearest gateway, TP to the other using one of the teleporters there (or the map searching "Gateway 3000" / "Gateway 7000"), and proceed to wherever you want to go.


Kyle Hamilton wrote:
This is a limitation of the Second Life viewer protocol, not something
that can easily be worked around by the OpenSim team.  Sorry. :(

-Kyle H

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 12:46 AM, Michael Huntington [hidden email] wrote:
  
Thanks Rhian,
Do you, or anyone else have any idea if this limitation is being removed in
the near future? Or is this something we'll just have to live with?
Thanks again.

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 3:41 AM, Rhian [hidden email] wrote:
    
I'm not 100% sure on this, but somewhere in the wiki (and I can't find it
right now) is stated that there is a Viewer limit to teleport more than 4096
regions far. So if you attempt to use the TP/HG from a location on 1000,
1000 to 5100, 1000, theoretically it will fail.


On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 9:14 AM, Michael Huntington [hidden email]
wrote:
      
I've been using dynamic hypergrid lately (and love it) but sometimes I
get the error message "Region is too far".... why is this?
From my understanding Hypergrid is supposed to work like the internet
today where we can enter a URL and go to that location ... In the virtual
world will some locations be out of our reach??
I kinda understand hypergrid but "Region too far" is the only subject
where I'm completely lost..
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Re: Why do I get "Region too far" when using hypergrid?

Diva Canto
Michael Huntington wrote:
Thanks Diva,

This is a little off topic but just wanted to let you know I visited:


and it seems someone has trashed the place.. and put nude photos as textures on some prims.... Also while there I noticed I was able to control the Estate settings ... and just to make sure this wasn't a mistake.. I hypergrided over to my OSGrid sim (which belongs to another user of mine) ... I was also able to control the Estate and move objects around that didn't belong to me.

Is this a HyperGrid bug?

No. The Gateways are totally unprotected until the first episode of griefing trashing. This may be it... :-/

As for other regions, whatever the visitor can and can't do is exactly the same as all other visitors.



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Re: Why do I get "Region too far" when using hypergrid?

Diva Canto
Yes, indeed. Stupidity never fails to show up, that's rule #1 in open systems. I'm gonna go through the logs and try to find out who did this griefing.

FYI, the UCI gateways are closed until further notice.


Diva Canto wrote:
Michael Huntington wrote:
Thanks Diva,

This is a little off topic but just wanted to let you know I visited:


and it seems someone has trashed the place.. and put nude photos as textures on some prims.... Also while there I noticed I was able to control the Estate settings ... and just to make sure this wasn't a mistake.. I hypergrided over to my OSGrid sim (which belongs to another user of mine) ... I was also able to control the Estate and move objects around that didn't belong to me.

Is this a HyperGrid bug?

No. The Gateways are totally unprotected until the first episode of griefing trashing. This may be it... :-/

As for other regions, whatever the visitor can and can't do is exactly the same as all other visitors.



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Permissions and common sense

Diva Canto
And today's award goes to three friends @ mecatreco.game-host.org:9002 who shall remain unnamed in public, but whose names I will gladly disclose to interested parties. Just thought I'd publicize the domain where they came from to see if public shunning has any effect on people's behavior.

Nothing too serious, really, since there are backups of the regions.

I had been curious to find out the extent of people's common sense in a completely open Metaverse, `a-la Web 2.0. Now we know: there is no *common* sense; some people think it makes a lot of sense to go to other people's regions and trash them just because they can. I guess they didn't realize their actions were being logged.

Everyone, please turn your permissions module on, if you hadn't done it already, disable building permissions, etc. Not that we didn't know, but... always surprising.

Security is definitely way up high on my list of things to focus on.

Diva Canto wrote:
Yes, indeed. Stupidity never fails to show up, that's rule #1 in open systems. I'm gonna go through the logs and try to find out who did this griefing.

FYI, the UCI gateways are closed until further notice.


Diva Canto wrote:
Michael Huntington wrote:
Thanks Diva,

This is a little off topic but just wanted to let you know I visited:


and it seems someone has trashed the place.. and put nude photos as textures on some prims.... Also while there I noticed I was able to control the Estate settings ... and just to make sure this wasn't a mistake.. I hypergrided over to my OSGrid sim (which belongs to another user of mine) ... I was also able to control the Estate and move objects around that didn't belong to me.

Is this a HyperGrid bug?

No. The Gateways are totally unprotected until the first episode of griefing trashing. This may be it... :-/

As for other regions, whatever the visitor can and can't do is exactly the same as all other visitors.



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Re: Permissions and common sense

Frank W Sweet
Building their stuff is one thing, but would not simply keeping
everything locked prevent visitors from trashing my stuff? I tend to
keep everything locked anyway  when I am not working on it, because I
am dangerous with a mouse in my hand.

Frank W Sweet

----- Original Message -----
From: "Diva Canto" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 11:40 AM
Subject: [Opensim-users] Permissions and common sense


And today's award goes to three friends @ mecatreco.game-host.org:9002
who shall remain unnamed in public, but whose names I will gladly
disclose to interested parties. Just thought I'd publicize the domain
where they came from to see if public shunning has any effect on
people's behavior.

Nothing too serious, really, since there are backups of the regions.

I had been curious to find out the extent of people's common sense in
a
completely open Metaverse, `a-la Web 2.0. Now we know: there is no
*common* sense; some people think it makes a lot of sense to go to
other
people's regions and trash them just because they can. I guess they
didn't realize their actions were being logged.

Everyone, please turn your permissions module on, if you hadn't done
it
already, disable building permissions, etc. Not that we didn't know,
but... always surprising.

Security is definitely way up high on my list of things to focus on.

Diva Canto wrote:

> Yes, indeed. Stupidity never fails to show up, that's rule #1 in
> open
> systems. I'm gonna go through the logs and try to find out who did
> this griefing.
>
> FYI, the UCI gateways are closed until further notice.
>
>
> Diva Canto wrote:
>> Michael Huntington wrote:
>>> Thanks Diva,
>>>
>>> This is a little off topic but just wanted to let you know I
>>> visited:
>>>
>>> secondlife://ucigrid04.nacs.uci.edu:9003/
>>>
>>> and it seems someone has trashed the place.. and put nude photos
>>> as
>>> textures on some prims.... Also while there I noticed I was able
>>> to
>>> control the Estate settings ... and just to make sure this wasn't
>>> a
>>> mistake.. I hypergrided over to my OSGrid sim (which belongs to
>>> another user of mine) ... I was also able to control the Estate
>>> and
>>> move objects around that didn't belong to me.
>>>
>>> Is this a HyperGrid bug?
>>
>> No. The Gateways are totally unprotected until the first episode of
>> griefing trashing. This may be it... :-/
>>
>> As for other regions, whatever the visitor can and can't do is
>> exactly the same as all other visitors.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
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> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Re: Permissions and common sense

Diva Canto
Frank W Sweet wrote:
> Building their stuff is one thing, but would not simply keeping
> everything locked prevent visitors from trashing my stuff?
Yes. Except that I thought it would be nice to let people bring
interesting objects to those regions; and some did. Let's see if we can
find a balance in some other way without disabling Build completely.

FYI, from what I can see, unchecking "Allow all residents to edit
terrain" in the parcel's properties is not enough for preventing terrain
editing; the region's administrator needs to check "prevent
terraforming" in the region's properties. Not sure if this is a bug in
opensim.

(Again, the ACL behavior is exactly the same for local and foreign HG users)

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Re: Permissions and common sense

Mic Bowman
How do I add a specific hypergrid user to the region ban / allow list?

-mic


On Feb 9, 2009 10:09am, Diva Canto <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Frank W Sweet wrote:
>
> > Building their stuff is one thing, but would not simply keeping
>
> > everything locked prevent visitors from trashing my stuff?
>
> Yes. Except that I thought it would be nice to let people bring
>
> interesting objects to those regions; and some did. Let's see if we can
>
> find a balance in some other way without disabling Build completely.
>
>
>
> FYI, from what I can see, unchecking "Allow all residents to edit
>
> terrain" in the parcel's properties is not enough for preventing terrain
>
> editing; the region's administrator needs to check "prevent
>
> terraforming" in the region's properties. Not sure if this is a bug in
>
> opensim.
>
>
>
> (Again, the ACL behavior is exactly the same for local and foreign HG users)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Opensim-users mailing list
>
> [hidden email]
>
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
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Re: Permissions and common sense

Michael Huntington
Diva, glad you found the jerks that did that...  sorry that had to happen :-(

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 1:27 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
How do I add a specific hypergrid user to the region ban / allow list?

-mic



On Feb 9, 2009 10:09am, Diva Canto <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Frank W Sweet wrote:
>
> > Building their stuff is one thing, but would not simply keeping
>
> > everything locked prevent visitors from trashing my stuff?
>
> Yes. Except that I thought it would be nice to let people bring
>
> interesting objects to those regions; and some did. Let's see if we can
>
> find a balance in some other way without disabling Build completely.
>
>
>
> FYI, from what I can see, unchecking "Allow all residents to edit
>
> terrain" in the parcel's properties is not enough for preventing terrain
>
> editing; the region's administrator needs to check "prevent
>
> terraforming" in the region's properties. Not sure if this is a bug in
>
> opensim.
>
>
>
> (Again, the ACL behavior is exactly the same for local and foreign HG users)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Opensim-users mailing list
>
> [hidden email]
>
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>

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Re: Why do I get "Region too far" when using hypergrid?

Robert Klein
In reply to this post by Diva Canto
What about the Hippo Viewer? Would this be something to add to Enhancement/Features/Bugs request on the ForgeTracker?

-Robert

Diva Canto wrote
Information about this viewer bug:
https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-2941

The bug has been revisited by Linden Lab staff sometime in early
December because of the Hypergrid, but they concluded that the
assumption behind this is too fundamental to be acted upon any time
soon. So this is something we have to live with while using LL-based
viewers. But that Jira is still open, so please vote and tell your
friends to vote too. Maybe if enough people want this fixed they will
fix it.

Recently, code has been added to OpenSim that checks for the distance,
so that people don't end up with empty screens after those TPs.

To compensate for this viewer limitation, there are two gateways that
people can use to bridge between grids in lower 1000s and upper 10000s
(which are most grids):

secondlife://ucigrid04.nacs.uci.edu:9003/  (a region at 3000, 3000)
secondlife://ucigrid04.nacs.uci.edu:9007/  (a region at 7000, 7000)

So, hop to the nearest gateway, TP to the other using one of the
teleporters there (or the map searching "Gateway 3000" / "Gateway
7000"), and proceed to wherever you want to go.
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Re: Permissions and common sense

Charles Krinke-3
In reply to this post by Michael Huntington
Dear Diva:

BlueWall tells me that the current recipe for securing a region is:

1. In OpenSim.ini set permissionmodules = "DefaultPermissionsModule"
2. In OpenSim.ini set serverside_object_permissions = true
3. In OpenSim.ini set allow_grid_gods = false
4. Go in-world and individually set parcel permissions as desired with the estate menu and the  terrain menu.

With respect to the two UCI Gateways at 3000,3000 and 7000,7000, I believe that we can get two volunteers to watch over the two gateways and login at least once a day. I am hoping that you would consider putting them back on line and letting us get those two volunteers to watch over these very important regions.

And, I apologize for the thoughtlessness of those who vandalized the two regions.

Charles


From: Michael Huntington <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 12:19:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Permissions and common sense

Diva, glad you found the jerks that did that...  sorry that had to happen :-(

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 1:27 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
How do I add a specific hypergrid user to the region ban / allow list?

-mic



On Feb 9, 2009 10:09am, Diva Canto <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Frank W Sweet wrote:
>
> > Building their stuff is one thing, but would not simply keeping
>
> > everything locked prevent visitors from trashing my stuff?
>
> Yes. Except that I thought it would be nice to let people bring
>
> interesting objects to those regions; and some did. Let's see if we can
>
> find a balance in some other way without disabling Build completely.
>
>
>
> FYI, from what I can see, unchecking "Allow all residents to edit
>
> terrain" in the parcel's properties is not enough for preventing terrain
>
> editing; the region's administrator needs to check "prevent
>
> terraforming" in the region's properties. Not sure if this is a bug in
>
> opensim.
>
>
>
> (Again, the ACL behavior is exactly the same for local and foreign HG users)
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Opensim-users mailing list
>
> [hidden email]
>
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>

_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
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Re: Permissions and common sense

Diva Canto
Thanks, Charles. Everyone should do that check list you wrote down.
That vandalism episode was a good reminder that not everyone in this Metaverse is on the same page...

The gateways have been up again since last night, with permissions enforced.
(Some of our regions in OSGrid are still unprotected, but they aren't that important and they serve as sandboxes. We'll protect them one of these days.)


Charles Krinke wrote:
Dear Diva:

BlueWall tells me that the current recipe for securing a region is:

1. In OpenSim.ini set permissionmodules = "DefaultPermissionsModule"
2. In OpenSim.ini set serverside_object_permissions = true
3. In OpenSim.ini set allow_grid_gods = false
4. Go in-world and individually set parcel permissions as desired with the estate menu and the  terrain menu.

With respect to the two UCI Gateways at 3000,3000 and 7000,7000, I believe that we can get two volunteers to watch over the two gateways and login at least once a day. I am hoping that you would consider putting them back on line and letting us get those two volunteers to watch over these very important regions.

And, I apologize for the thoughtlessness of those who vandalized the two regions.

Charles


From: Michael Huntington [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Monday, February 9, 2009 12:19:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Permissions and common sense

Diva, glad you found the jerks that did that...  sorry that had to happen :-(

On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 1:27 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:
How do I add a specific hypergrid user to the region ban / allow list?

-mic



On Feb 9, 2009 10:09am, Diva Canto <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Frank W Sweet wrote:
>
> > Building their stuff is one thing, but would not simply keeping
>
> > everything locked prevent visitors from trashing my stuff?
>
> Yes. Except that I thought it would be nice to let people bring
>
> interesting objects to those regions; and some did. Let's see if we can
>
> find a balance in some other way without disabling Build completely.
>
>
>
> FYI, from what I can see, unchecking "Allow all residents to edit
>
> terrain" in the parcel's properties is not enough for preventing terrain
>
> editing; the region's administrator needs to check "prevent
>
> terraforming" in the region's properties. Not sure if this is a bug in
>
> opensim.
>
>
>
> (Again, the ACL behavior is exactly the same for local and foreign HG users)
>
>
>
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>
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>
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