Working with the new ROBUST Changes

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Working with the new ROBUST Changes

Master_Mirage
I have been going thru whats new and so far seems simple enough. I do have a question b4 i fire it up to test.
Should i expect mysql DB migration's or is this just a change in the plumbing sofar.
If there are no db migrations can i assume ill be able to roll it back?
I know how to proceed ether way but i thought id ask b4 i start poken sticks at it.

(im running full grid mode(git master) upto just b4 the intgration of the gridservice into robust and all of it is using mysql.)


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Re: Working with the new ROBUST Changes

Diva Canto
Everyone -

The official tagged release is 0.6.9. Please stick to that unless you
want to help the development of OpenSim. If you just want to use it,
stay  in tagged releases.

If you do want to help, your help will be much appreciated. Here are
some important tips and warnings for upgrading your grids:

1) We're not in Kansas anymore. If your grid is more than just a
personal world for fun, I strongly recommend that you pull a copy of
your DB onto the side and try the upgrade on a "test grid" first. You
should start integrating this 2-phase deployment process more and more
into your operation. (besides doing backups periodically)

2) In theory, migrations occur automatically, but you may encounter some
hickups -- see this issue report, which isn't solved yet, but has some
tips at the end: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=4604.

3) Expect bugs in master for the next couple of weeks. We're in pre-0.7
phase, after a massive re-architecting effort. Bug reports of the kind
"Here's something that doesn't look right, I want to help diagnose it"
are really valuable. Patches are even more valuable! Bug reports of the
kind "F*&#@, this doesn't work and now I can't login, I can't roll back,
and my life is in ruins" will be left echoing in the void.

4) OSWiredux will not work anymore. If you rely on it for user
registrations, consider finding an alternative solution before you
upgrade your production grid. Ideally, you will deploy that alternative
solution in your test grid before you deploy it into your production grid.

5) The default configuration now is 1 single ROBUST server with all the
12-or-so services, and then any number of simulation servers. Depending
on the scale of your operation, you may want to run the default
configuration or not. If you have a really big grid, with lots of users,
very likely you will want to separate groups of services into their own
ROBUST servers, and placing those in their own boxes. With the new
architecture, this is trivial to do. However, I haven't had time to
write the documentation yet, so I won't be able to teach people how to
do it right now. I already told a few things to the OSGrid folks over
the IRC, so maybe they can figure it out and teach everyone else how to
do it before I have time to document it properly.


Master_Mirage wrote:

> I have been going thru whats new and so far seems simple enough. I do have a
> question b4 i fire it up to test.
> Should i expect mysql DB migration's or is this just a change in the
> plumbing sofar.
> If there are no db migrations can i assume ill be able to roll it back?
> I know how to proceed ether way but i thought id ask b4 i start poken sticks
> at it.
>
> (im running full grid mode(git master) upto just b4 the intgration of the
> gridservice into robust and all of it is using mysql.)
>
> :-)
>
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Re: Working with the new ROBUST Changes

Master_Mirage
Good thing i asked. TY ill mess with it using a scratch Mysql clone server rather than trying it with the normal one. Sounds like theres alot to be done and ill try and do what i can of coarse.
(The clone is no longer used but has a broad range of data on larger level) so it dosent matter if it eats it anyway.

Anyway ty for the info..

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Re: Working with the new ROBUST Changes

Karen Palen
My suggestion is to make backups with OAR/IAR files before you start!

Mysql has a backup facility as well which can be used once you have MySql working.

You do need to select just where you want to be on the development cycle as Diva indicated in an earlier post.

DO make sure you have adequate backups (plural!) of your database whatever you choose, that is where 90% of your effort will end up!

Karen

On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 8:11 PM, Master_Mirage <[hidden email]> wrote:

Good thing i asked. TY ill mess with it using a scratch Mysql clone server
rather than trying it with the normal one. Sounds like theres alot to be
done and ill try and do what i can of coarse.
(The clone is no longer used but has a broad range of data on larger level)
so it dosent matter if it eats it anyway.

Anyway ty for the info..

:-)
--
View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Working-with-the-new-ROBUST-Changes-tp4678667p4678822.html
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Re: Working with the new ROBUST Changes

Karen Palen
In reply to this post by Diva Canto
This does sound like I need to get a "debug grid" going to try all of this out!

The work that some of us did on "watermarking" of content for a measure of copyright protection has yielded some interesting results.

I will write this up ASAP for this list and the developer's list unless someone else involved in the discussion does it first.

Karen

On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 7:48 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

3) Expect bugs in master for the next couple of weeks. We're in pre-0.7 phase, after a massive re-architecting effort. Bug reports of the kind "Here's something that doesn't look right, I want to help diagnose it" are really valuable. Patches are even more valuable! Bug reports of the kind "F*&#@, this doesn't work and now I can't login, I can't roll back, and my life is in ruins" will be left echoing in the void.


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Re: Working with the new ROBUST Changes

Tedd Hansen-2
In reply to this post by Karen Palen

Hi

 

I haven’t seen any guide to setting up MySQL backup, so I made a page at http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Backup

Note that the backup files actually take up a bit of space because of binary data being stored as text. J

 

I also made a page for Linux init.d startup script some time back: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Startup_script_linux

 

Seems like I screw up all formatting every time I paste scripts into the wiki… ;)

 

BR,

 Tedd

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Karen Palen
Sent: 5. mars 2010 06:14
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Working with the new ROBUST Changes

 

My suggestion is to make backups with OAR/IAR files before you start!

Mysql has a backup facility as well which can be used once you have MySql working.

You do need to select just where you want to be on the development cycle as Diva indicated in an earlier post.

DO make sure you have adequate backups (plural!) of your database whatever you choose, that is where 90% of your effort will end up!

Karen

On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 8:11 PM, Master_Mirage <[hidden email]> wrote:


Good thing i asked. TY ill mess with it using a scratch Mysql clone server
rather than trying it with the normal one. Sounds like theres alot to be
done and ill try and do what i can of coarse.
(The clone is no longer used but has a broad range of data on larger level)
so it dosent matter if it eats it anyway.

Anyway ty for the info..

:-)
--
View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Working-with-the-new-ROBUST-Changes-tp4678667p4678822.html

Sent from the opensim-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
_______________________________________________

 


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Re: Working with the new ROBUST Changes

Master_Mirage
In reply to this post by Master_Mirage
Yes looks like a challange


4) OSWiredux will not work anymore. If you rely on it for user
registrations, consider finding an alternative solution before you
upgrade your production grid. Ideally, you will deploy that alternative
solution in your test grid before you deploy it into your production grid.
 
+ Im assuming WI-redux also wount work and thats quite troublsome as i have no idea what else there is
   What i use in production is highly interactive with the front end at many levels.
   Mayby its not the same thing as OSWiredux? anyway thats a huge hurdle for us.
 
5) The default configuration now is 1 single ROBUST server with all the
12-or-so services, and then any number of simulation servers. Depending
on the scale of your operation, you may want to run the default
configuration or not. If you have a really big grid, with lots of users,
very likely you will want to separate groups of services into their own
ROBUST servers, and placing those in their own boxes. With the new
architecture, this is trivial to do. However, I haven't had time to
write the documentation yet, so I won't be able to teach people how to
do it right now. I already told a few things to the OSGrid folks over
the IRC, so maybe they can figure it out and teach everyone else how to
do it before I have time to document it properly.

+ The plumbing aspect of this is something i can deal with as i have sep. services in the past via robust and is prob about the same way as b4. I feel a bit more comfortable with this than working with wi-redux problem. So ill try and lend a hand with #5. I allready have the servers on local lan so makes it somewhat easyer to lay it out.

As far as the Mysql stuff, i allready use master/slave mysql replication so that when things like this comeup i have a seperate mysql instance to test with. The replicator is an exact clone of all the production grids data and still isolated at the same time. IAR/OAR wount be nessary in my case as it would be using the same data anyway and as a clone theres no big deal if it all goes wrong in testing.
I brushed on the subject in other posts and this is yet another reasion why someome might consider master/slave replication.

For us, theres a few serious concerns right now. The front end (what do we use), new user acounts (bug allready found not fixed yet), and oscurrency (wount build right now). All of them we have to have b4 i can switch to it.

This would be FULL GRID MODE no HG testing using a crosssection of 30 regions all ready developed.
So theres alot of stuff/mode's that should also be tested that i wount be doing.


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Re: Working with the new ROBUST Changes

Master_Mirage
In reply to this post by Karen Palen
Karen Palen wrote
This does sound like I need to get a "debug grid" going to try all of this
out!

The work that some of us did on "watermarking" of content for a measure of
copyright protection has yielded some interesting results.
 
I will write this up ASAP for this list and the developer's list unless
someone else involved in the discussion does it first.

 +Yes that would be great if you could, it kinda hit a crosroad but i still feel theres something to it and at least a good read sofar. some of it kinda went in a circle and could be neated up at least :)

Karen

On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 7:48 PM, <diva@metaverseink.com> wrote:

>
> 3) Expect bugs in master for the next couple of weeks. We're in pre-0.7
> phase, after a massive re-architecting effort. Bug reports of the kind
> "Here's something that doesn't look right, I want to help diagnose it" are
> really valuable. Patches are even more valuable! Bug reports of the kind
> "F*&#@, this doesn't work and now I can't login, I can't roll back, and my
> life is in ruins" will be left echoing in the void.
>

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Re: Working with the new ROBUST Changes

Master_Mirage
In reply to this post by Master_Mirage
Well theres some good news allready.. cool
http://opensimulator.org/viewgit/?a=commitdiff&p=opensim&h=463d7752614df8a8b3c01a52150afac4e0f8adec

one less of a problem :)
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Re: Working with the new ROBUST Changes

Diva Canto
In reply to this post by Master_Mirage
Master_Mirage wrote:

> 4) OSWiredux will not work anymore. If you rely on it for user
> registrations, consider finding an alternative solution before you
> upgrade your production grid. Ideally, you will deploy that alternative
> solution in your test grid before you deploy it into your production grid.
>  
> + Im assuming WI-redux also wount work and thats quite troublsome as i have
> no idea what else there is
>    What i use in production is highly interactive with the front end at many
> levels.
>    Mayby its not the same thing as OSWiredux? anyway thats a huge hurdle for
> us.

This troubles me too, as I have a couple of small grids that need a web
front end. I've been looking at Drupal this morning, but I was
discouraged by how horribly complicated it is to install. Even if I can
eventually make it to work, I will never be able to teach people how to
make it work. It's really horrible!

I took a look at OSWiredux and I was also discouraged. It seems too
complicated. But that doesn't mean that OSWiredux is dead. Someone with
enough PHP knowledge should be able to fix it to work with the new DB
schema -- just a few table/field name changes, and it should be salvageable.


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Re: Working with the new ROBUST Changes

Karen Palen
In reply to this post by Master_Mirage
The MySql master/slave is NOT designed as a backup and you could well end up with serious problems (AKA SCREWED!)

MySql has a very rich backup facility because backup/restore is a really hard problem and you only get to find out what is missing when it is too late.

DO NOT skimp on backups! Ask me how i know ... :-( :-(

Karen

On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 7:46 AM, Master_Mirage <[hidden email]> wrote:

As far as the Mysql stuff, i allready use master/slave mysql replication so
that when things like this comeup i have a seperate mysql instance to test
with. The replicator is an exact clone of all the production grids data and
still isolated at the same time. IAR/OAR wount be nessary in my case as it
would be using the same data anyway and as a clone theres no big deal if it
all goes wrong in testing.
I brushed on the subject in other posts and this is yet another reasion why
someome might consider master/slave replication.


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Re: Working with the new ROBUST Changes

Master_Mirage
In reply to this post by Diva Canto
Diva Canto wrote
Master_Mirage wrote:
> 4) OSWiredux will not work anymore. If you rely on it for user
> registrations, consider finding an alternative solution before you
> upgrade your production grid. Ideally, you will deploy that alternative
> solution in your test grid before you deploy it into your production grid.
>  
> + Im assuming WI-redux also wount work and thats quite troublsome as i have
> no idea what else there is
>    What i use in production is highly interactive with the front end at many
> levels.
>    Mayby its not the same thing as OSWiredux? anyway thats a huge hurdle for
> us.

This troubles me too, as I have a couple of small grids that need a web
front end. I've been looking at Drupal this morning, but I was
discouraged by how horribly complicated it is to install. Even if I can
eventually make it to work, I will never be able to teach people how to
make it work. It's really horrible!
 + I ran drupal for about a year just as normal web site. I can say its verry PICKY!
 + and making your own addins is well for the bird's
 + Also i think its way overkill for opensimulator's need's and to re-make it.. NAHHH! lol

I took a look at OSWiredux and I was also discouraged. It seems too
complicated. But that doesn't mean that OSWiredux is dead. Someone with
enough PHP knowledge should be able to fix it to work with the new DB
schema -- just a few table/field name changes, and it should be salvageable.
 + Were still using wi-redux, so far we have managed to keep it working but sounds like the same thing needs done there too.
 + Well like you said alot of other things have to be done and im shure if theres a need some clever soul will comeup with something :)
 + In the mean time im ok poking it with a stick for now, what were allready running is doing fine for folks so theres no rush to switch anything.


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Re: Working with the new ROBUST Changes

Master_Mirage
In reply to this post by Master_Mirage
Right!, Now i have robust running and some regions loaded with what there supose to have in them (no errors).

I went to log in and realized im not shure what the user port is now.
Im assuming its changed to 8003 vrs the 8002 but thought id ask.
I need to adj some of the plumbing for the right port and thats not a problem just not shure what one is right.


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Re: Working with the new ROBUST Changes

Diva Canto
The default configs have the login port at 8002, because it needs to be
exposed on the internet.

See here:
http://opensimulator.org/wiki/ROBUST#An_Example_Conversion_From_URM_To_R

The paragraph that says:

"Note that the default configuration starts 2 processes, one listening
in port 8002 and the other listening in 8003. We have placed the
services that need to be exposed to the internet in port 8002; all
services that don't need to be exposed are in port 8003. To secure your
grid you can now put port 8003 behind your firewall. Unless you know
what you are doing, leave the port numbers exactly as they come out of
the package; change only the host names everywhere they need to be changed."

Master_Mirage wrote:

> Right!, Now i have robust running and some regions loaded with what there
> supose to have in them (no errors).
>
> I went to log in and realized im not shure what the user port is now.
> Im assuming its changed to 8003 vrs the 8002 but thought id ask.
> I need to adj some of the plumbing for the right port and thats not a
> problem just not shure what one is right.
>
>
>
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Re: Working with the new ROBUST Changes

Karen Palen
In reply to this post by Tedd Hansen-2
Thank you - that is much more sophisticated than what I was using!

I have added my simple script that works to run a standalone sim in a terminal.

For the backups I have been running the backup in MySql Administrator.

Simple minded but they do the job for a standalone!

Oh yes - I too had trouble formatting the script in the wiki :-(

Karen

On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 4:53 AM, Tedd Hansen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi

 

I haven’t seen any guide to setting up MySQL backup, so I made a page at http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Backup

Note that the backup files actually take up a bit of space because of binary data being stored as text. J

 

I also made a page for Linux init.d startup script some time back: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Startup_script_linux

 

Seems like I screw up all formatting every time I paste scripts into the wiki… ;)

 

BR,

 Tedd

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Karen Palen
Sent: 5. mars 2010 06:14
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Working with the new ROBUST Changes

 

My suggestion is to make backups with OAR/IAR files before you start!

Mysql has a backup facility as well which can be used once you have MySql working.

You do need to select just where you want to be on the development cycle as Diva indicated in an earlier post.

DO make sure you have adequate backups (plural!) of your database whatever you choose, that is where 90% of your effort will end up!

Karen

On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 8:11 PM, Master_Mirage <[hidden email]> wrote:


Good thing i asked. TY ill mess with it using a scratch Mysql clone server
rather than trying it with the normal one. Sounds like theres alot to be
done and ill try and do what i can of coarse.
(The clone is no longer used but has a broad range of data on larger level)
so it dosent matter if it eats it anyway.

Anyway ty for the info..

:-)
--
View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Working-with-the-new-ROBUST-Changes-tp4678667p4678822.html

Sent from the opensim-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
_______________________________________________

 


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Re: Working with the new ROBUST Changes

Karen Palen
In reply to this post by Master_Mirage
Thank you, in putting together the summarry i have almost convinced myself that it won't work :-)

Definitely time to sleep in it and see if I can fix the faults or at least present it in a way to spark someone else to figure that out!

That is the power of collaberation.

Karen

On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 8:08 AM, Master_Mirage <[hidden email]> wrote:


Karen Palen wrote:
>
>
> I will write this up ASAP for this list and the developer's list unless
> someone else involved in the discussion does it first.
>
>  +Yes that would be great if you could, it kinda hit a crosroad but i
> still feel theres something to it and at least a good read sofar. some of
> it kinda went in a circle and could be neated up at least :)


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Re: Working with the new ROBUST Changes

Master_Mirage
In reply to this post by Karen Palen
Karen Palen wrote
The MySql master/slave is NOT designed as a backup and you could well end up
with serious problems (AKA SCREWED!)

MySql has a very rich backup facility because backup/restore is a really
hard problem and you only get to find out what is missing when it is too
late.

DO NOT skimp on backups! Ask me how i know ... :-( :-(

Karen

On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 7:46 AM, Master_Mirage <mirage123@verizon.net> wrote:

>
> As far as the Mysql stuff, i allready use master/slave mysql replication so
> that when things like this comeup i have a seperate mysql instance to test
> with. The replicator is an exact clone of all the production grids data and
> still isolated at the same time. IAR/OAR wount be nessary in my case as it
> would be using the same data anyway and as a clone theres no big deal if it
> all goes wrong in testing.
> I brushed on the subject in other posts and this is yet another reasion why
> someome might consider master/slave replication.
>

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Well Mysql devs dont agree but thats passed the point anyway. I know its not for the timid and most wount need it. Its just im dealing with db's (sp assests) in excess of 23gigs (blobs). I spent alot of time understanding it and ask there team alot of questions. But thats passed the point of this thread and i have had no problems in 6mos with swapping clones (checksums are exact).
For most ppl you are correct and is the best way to be shure.
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Re: Working with the new ROBUST Changes

Master_Mirage
In reply to this post by Diva Canto
Diva Canto wrote
The default configs have the login port at 8002, because it needs to be
exposed on the internet.

See here:
http://opensimulator.org/wiki/ROBUST#An_Example_Conversion_From_URM_To_R

The paragraph that says:

"Note that the default configuration starts 2 processes, one listening
in port 8002 and the other listening in 8003. We have placed the
services that need to be exposed to the internet in port 8002; all
services that don't need to be exposed are in port 8003. To secure your
grid you can now put port 8003 behind your firewall. Unless you know
what you are doing, leave the port numbers exactly as they come out of
the package; change only the host names everywhere they need to be changed."

Master_Mirage wrote:
> Right!, Now i have robust running and some regions loaded with what there
> supose to have in them (no errors).
Thank you , i have made the changes and see where to change the user port at now. I actauly want it on port 8008 as 8002 is used by the normal grid and this would exist as an expermental grid but still run the normal one at the same time. Then others can optionaly log into it and help bang on things too. :)
I have run it like that in the passed but wasent looking in the right place.

Right now its having a prob. authentcating the user to the region to log in. Fails to do it then dosent allow the connection tobe made. Im just now to that point and poking at that today. It is hearing the client now so im making headway again :)
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Re: Working with the new ROBUST Changes

Master_Mirage
In reply to this post by Master_Mirage
Yahh baby :)
Ok i have it all working as this.
ROBUST + Region server , cloned mysql DB of our production mysql.
It is also running along side of the production grid yet isolated from it. Normal user port (production grid) Remains on 8002, Expermental grid on 8008.
This gives us away to safely work on this now and not disrupt the main one.
our more clever users can also log in and work on the other problems now (and thay thought thay had the day off .. lol lol).
From that i have seen sofar and others have said you should run it ISOLATED at this point.
It will change data in your DB so you should make shure of what your doing and not just update and run it.
The configuration of it is actualy quite easy, mutch better than the old way. Also seems mutch faster than normal.
I found it best to leave the addons (ossearch,osprofile,opencurrency) out of it untill you have it working right. I had problems with them in the build and gives cryptic errors right now.(you can go back later and sort them out one at a time).
On 1st log in i was ruth but all the normal inventory and regions contents were all correct so its just a minor thing of getting dressed again.

So far im likeing what im seeing and now we can put the spur's to it :)

I want to thank all the ppl that have helped out in posting here. Ill continue to offer what i can in the same way. There are alot of problems to be solved and this is a 1st step, Now we can help sort them out.
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Re: Working with the new ROBUST Changes

Master_Mirage
We are actualy going thru things mutch quicker than i though so i was able to test the addons

OsSearch and OsProfile both work as thay use to.
The problem comes from NOT updating them to the current SVN. Thay have been patched for current git and work fine on 9fa9cfd - r12384.

The gotcha (got me anyway) was if you donot update them and build it. it leaves JUNK in the bin folder so evan if you find that out, and remove them, it still wount build.

Update them b4 you build anything and your good to go :)

Opencurrency has not been updated and should not be used right now. No doubt it will also leave junk in the trunk. Im shure updates to it will happen eventualy as its used quite a bit.

We have checked Mega-region,avie clothing persistance (basic),MRM,assorted LSL scripts, and cars. All work as thay do on our production grid.

Next will be heavy region's loads (thay cover about everything from parcles to verry complex objects and scripts). About 80k prims and not shure how many scripts but is a common load we use when testing (makes the fans spin really good).

OAR and other stuff will have to wait a bit.
Anyway just an update to our progress sofar and might help keep others from stumbling over the same stumps at the same time.

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