You Assholes lost our funding!

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You Assholes lost our funding!

Ralf Haifisch
Thom,

there are some lessons you learn if you manage companys, projects etc.

even if you e.g. reduce the headcount and that can´t be friendly - be at
least politely.

If you need to make clear words, do that - but expect your conversational
partner to get realy pissed, there are cultures that are not to happy with
to clear words.


Besides that - basing a project on CVS/SVN daily product, you need to learn
a bit about how development works.

As a Project manager working with "hot unstable code" not getting your
funding partner calm because of a one day glitch (whichever type) means, you
have not to much experience in leadership - or realy the wrong partners.

Using opensim as well includes some aspects of the lincense it uses, wich
you seem not to have read up 2 now.

personaly I think, after such an email you would get a single chance in a 4
eye-talk, after wich you will send an apology or would have been fired.  See
how friendly is opensource if you can call developer giving things for free
"assholes" and continue making your money with their work ?

Maybe even remember, that this emails are kept in various archives. Think
about the impact.  If the owner of thomking.com will try to run projects in
the 3D, and a potential customer does some research finding that style of
communication...  the problem will be no april fools joke.


Thom - learn a bit more about your business (risc acceptance is a possible
method of risc treatment from the management view, so SVN may be ok.  Learn
to teach other about your business plan, including your risc treatment plan)
- or leave it.

Don´t blame other for a lack of skills, prudence or you nervous customers.



Cheers,
Ralf
------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 00:03:20 +0100
From: "Thom King" <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Opensim-users] You Assholes lost our funding!
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


 I just found out our OpenSim-Grid-based project has lost our
 funding because of some stunt you assholes pulled in the OpenSim
 code.  You are despicable!  There is no possible excuse for what
 you have done.
 


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Re: You Assholes lost our funding!

James Stallings II
Bravo Ralf, well done :)

Cheers
James

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 1:53 AM, Ralf Haifisch <[hidden email]> wrote:
Thom,

there are some lessons you learn if you manage companys, projects etc.

even if you e.g. reduce the headcount and that can´t be friendly - be at
least politely.

If you need to make clear words, do that - but expect your conversational
partner to get realy pissed, there are cultures that are not to happy with
to clear words.


Besides that - basing a project on CVS/SVN daily product, you need to learn
a bit about how development works.

As a Project manager working with "hot unstable code" not getting your
funding partner calm because of a one day glitch (whichever type) means, you
have not to much experience in leadership - or realy the wrong partners.

Using opensim as well includes some aspects of the lincense it uses, wich
you seem not to have read up 2 now.

personaly I think, after such an email you would get a single chance in a 4
eye-talk, after wich you will send an apology or would have been fired.  See
how friendly is opensource if you can call developer giving things for free
"assholes" and continue making your money with their work ?

Maybe even remember, that this emails are kept in various archives. Think
about the impact.  If the owner of thomking.com will try to run projects in
the 3D, and a potential customer does some research finding that style of
communication...  the problem will be no april fools joke.


Thom - learn a bit more about your business (risc acceptance is a possible
method of risc treatment from the management view, so SVN may be ok.  Learn
to teach other about your business plan, including your risc treatment plan)
- or leave it.

Don´t blame other for a lack of skills, prudence or you nervous customers.



Cheers,
Ralf
------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 00:03:20 +0100
From: "Thom King" <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Opensim-users] You Assholes lost our funding!
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


 I just found out our OpenSim-Grid-based project has lost our
 funding because of some stunt you assholes pulled in the OpenSim
 code.  You are despicable!  There is no possible excuse for what
 you have done.



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Re: You Assholes lost our funding!

Frank W Sweet
James Stallings II wrote, "Bravo Ralf, well done," refering to a
message by Ralf Haifisch that ends with, "Don´t blame other for a lack
of skills, prudence or you nervous customers."

I agree completely. Here is a project where a developer (with the
avowed support of other developers) plants a time-bomb that denotates
weeks later, rendering the software unusable in a way that cannot be
recovered by reverting to prior relases (which were aready secretly
contaminated). I agree with Ralf and Stallings. Anyone who continues
in such a project, knowing that this can happen again, is lacking in
prudence, skills, and will certainly have nervous customers.

By the way, how much longer is this thread going to continue? It seems
to me that everything that can be said has been said. Developers
(correctly) believe that they have the right to plant time bombs that
render the software useless because everyone is warned that the
software is pre-release (bleeding edge, trunk, whatever). I agree.
They have that right, since they are volunteers and need to commit a
"prank" now and then. On the other hand, some users (including me)
believe that prudence requires us to shun such a project because,
while we can live with bugs, which can be reverted, we cannot live
with with deliberate malware, which cannot.

FWS

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Re: You Assholes lost our funding!

James Stallings II
Apparently, you don't agree completely.

'Useless' is a terrific overstatement, as is the characterization 'malware'. I tend to think of the whole thing as more of an easter egg, especially given that the 'logic bomb' fires for only 24 hours.

The real tragedy here is that so few have gotten the message with respect to deploying this alpha software in a production capacity: Don't. And if you do, be prepared for a rough ride.



On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 7:52 AM, Frank W Sweet <[hidden email]> wrote:
James Stallings II wrote, "Bravo Ralf, well done," refering to a
message by Ralf Haifisch that ends with, "Don´t blame other for a lack
of skills, prudence or you nervous customers."

I agree completely. Here is a project where a developer (with the
avowed support of other developers) plants a time-bomb that denotates
weeks later, rendering the software unusable in a way that cannot be
recovered by reverting to prior relases (which were aready secretly
contaminated). I agree with Ralf and Stallings. Anyone who continues
in such a project, knowing that this can happen again, is lacking in
prudence, skills, and will certainly have nervous customers.

By the way, how much longer is this thread going to continue? It seems
to me that everything that can be said has been said. Developers
(correctly) believe that they have the right to plant time bombs that
render the software useless because everyone is warned that the
software is pre-release (bleeding edge, trunk, whatever). I agree.
They have that right, since they are volunteers and need to commit a
"prank" now and then. On the other hand, some users (including me)
believe that prudence requires us to shun such a project because,
while we can live with bugs, which can be reverted, we cannot live
with with deliberate malware, which cannot.

FWS

_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



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Re: You Assholes lost our funding!

Aldon Hynes
I have not followed this discussion all that closely, but I do have a few questions.
 
My install of OpenSim did not appear to be affected.  However, I don't have a need for the bleeding edge version, so I don't download from SVN.  The version I have is one that I downloaded back in September.  (Of 2007, maybe I should do a refresh soon!)
 
I went back into my version, and I couldn't find any easy way of determining which version it was.  (I believe it was some branch of 0.4, but I'm not positive)  Is there an easy way to do that?  Perhaps with the new versions?
 
If I connect to some OpenSim grid from the Second Life Client, is there any way to determine which version of a grid or a region I'm connecting too?
 
I see that there plenty of versions out in the wild now, such as various patched levels of 0.6.2, 0.6.3, 0.6.4 and the SVN version. Can someone confirm for me which branches the prank was in?  Was it only in the SVN version?  If I had pulled the perferred version, 06.4 Alpha with post-release fixes, would I have encountered the prank?  What about the 0.6.3 or the 0.6.2 versions?
 
Personally, I want to thank everyone who has worked so hard on OpenSim.  It sure has come a long way since 0.4. 
 
Aldon
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of James Stallings II
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 8:13 AM
To: Frank W Sweet; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] You Assholes lost our funding!

Apparently, you don't agree completely.

'Useless' is a terrific overstatement, as is the characterization 'malware'. I tend to think of the whole thing as more of an easter egg, especially given that the 'logic bomb' fires for only 24 hours.

The real tragedy here is that so few have gotten the message with respect to deploying this alpha software in a production capacity: Don't. And if you do, be prepared for a rough ride.



On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 7:52 AM, Frank W Sweet <[hidden email]> wrote:
James Stallings II wrote, "Bravo Ralf, well done," refering to a
message by Ralf Haifisch that ends with, "Don´t blame other for a lack
of skills, prudence or you nervous customers."

I agree completely. Here is a project where a developer (with the
avowed support of other developers) plants a time-bomb that denotates
weeks later, rendering the software unusable in a way that cannot be
recovered by reverting to prior relases (which were aready secretly
contaminated). I agree with Ralf and Stallings. Anyone who continues
in such a project, knowing that this can happen again, is lacking in
prudence, skills, and will certainly have nervous customers.

By the way, how much longer is this thread going to continue? It seems
to me that everything that can be said has been said. Developers
(correctly) believe that they have the right to plant time bombs that
render the software useless because everyone is warned that the
software is pre-release (bleeding edge, trunk, whatever). I agree.
They have that right, since they are volunteers and need to commit a
"prank" now and then. On the other hand, some users (including me)
believe that prudence requires us to shun such a project because,
while we can live with bugs, which can be reverted, we cannot live
with with deliberate malware, which cannot.

FWS

_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



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Re: You Assholes lost our funding!

justincc
Aldon Hynes wrote:

> I have not followed this discussion all that closely, but I do have a
> few questions.
>  
> My install of OpenSim did not appear to be affected.  However, I don't
> have a need for the bleeding edge version, so I don't download from
> SVN.  The version I have is one that I downloaded back in September.  
> (Of 2007, maybe I should do a refresh soon!)
>  
> I went back into my version, and I couldn't find any easy way of
> determining which version it was.  (I believe it was some branch of 0.4,
> but I'm not positive)  Is there an easy way to do that?  Perhaps with
> the new versions?

You could try the 'show version' command from the console, though your code might be so old that it doesn't have this!

>  
> If I connect to some OpenSim grid from the Second Life Client, is there
> any way to determine which version of a grid or a region I'm connecting too?

You can also try going to Help->About in the Linden Lab client.  This will tell you the region version.  It isn't really
possible to tell the versions of code running on grid services (though of course these must at least be compatible with
the region being run).

>  
> I see that there plenty of versions out in the wild now, such as various
> patched levels of 0.6.2, 0.6.3, 0.6.4 and the SVN version. Can someone
> confirm for me which branches the prank was in?  Was it only in the SVN
> version?  If I had pulled the perferred version, 06.4 Alpha with
> post-release fixes, would I have encountered the prank?  What about the
> 0.6.3 or the 0.6.2 versions?

Aldon, the prank/joke/easter egg was in none of the released branch code and the developers were very careful to make
sure that it didn't get in any of these.  It did indeed only exist in the SVN/trunk line.

>  
> Personally, I want to thank everyone who has worked so hard on OpenSim.  
> It sure has come a long way since 0.4.

 From my part, thanks very much :)

>  
> Aldon
>  
>  
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     *From:* [hidden email]
>     [mailto:[hidden email]]*On Behalf Of *James
>     Stallings II
>     *Sent:* Thursday, April 02, 2009 8:13 AM
>     *To:* Frank W Sweet; [hidden email]
>     *Subject:* Re: [Opensim-users] You Assholes lost our funding!
>
>     Apparently, you don't agree completely.
>
>     'Useless' is a terrific overstatement, as is the characterization
>     'malware'. I tend to think of the whole thing as more of an easter
>     egg, especially given that the 'logic bomb' fires for only 24 hours.
>
>     The real tragedy here is that so few have gotten the message with
>     respect to deploying this alpha software in a production capacity:
>     Don't. And if you do, be prepared for a rough ride.
>
>
>
>     On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 7:52 AM, Frank W Sweet
>     <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>         James Stallings II wrote, "Bravo Ralf, well done," refering to a
>         message by Ralf Haifisch that ends with, "Don´t blame other for
>         a lack
>         of skills, prudence or you nervous customers."
>
>         I agree completely. Here is a project where a developer (with the
>         avowed support of other developers) plants a time-bomb that
>         denotates
>         weeks later, rendering the software unusable in a way that cannot be
>         recovered by reverting to prior relases (which were aready secretly
>         contaminated). I agree with Ralf and Stallings. Anyone who continues
>         in such a project, knowing that this can happen again, is lacking in
>         prudence, skills, and will certainly have nervous customers.
>
>         By the way, how much longer is this thread going to continue? It
>         seems
>         to me that everything that can be said has been said. Developers
>         (correctly) believe that they have the right to plant time bombs
>         that
>         render the software useless because everyone is warned that the
>         software is pre-release (bleeding edge, trunk, whatever). I agree.
>         They have that right, since they are volunteers and need to commit a
>         "prank" now and then. On the other hand, some users (including me)
>         believe that prudence requires us to shun such a project because,
>         while we can live with bugs, which can be reverted, we cannot live
>         with with deliberate malware, which cannot.
>
>         FWS
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         Opensim-users mailing list
>         [hidden email]
>         <mailto:[hidden email]>
>         https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>
>
>
>     --
>     ===================================
>     http://osgrid.org
>     http://del.icio.us/SPQR
>     http://twitter.com/jstallings2
>     http://www.linkedin.com/pub/5/770/a49
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


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Re: You Assholes lost our funding!

Ralf Haifisch
In reply to this post by Ralf Haifisch
Hey James,


James Stallings II wrote, "Bravo Ralf, well done," refering to a
message by Ralf Haifisch that ends with, "Don?t blame other for a lack
of skills, prudence or you nervous customers."

I agree completely. Here is a project where a developer (with the
avowed support of other developers) plants a time-bomb that denotates
weeks later

--> with word picking i could easylie write a nuclear bomb compendium from
the holy bible.
--> however, you lost even context stealing word: the "asshole-mailer" was
reclaiming leadership
--> you are referring to a team member, while the decision was supported by
the whole crew
--> in the former IRC discussion, so management and board have been
informed. Risc acceptance
--> is a valid method.

By the way, how much longer is this thread going to continue? It seems
to me that everything that can be said has been said.

--> agreed.  But if you want to open up a bible based document creation
list, let me know.
--> beware, I grew up between some lawyer and did take my debate club
lessons

Amen !

PS: maybe open up a "RTFM" list for SVN/CVS and major/minor/patch numbering,
as well
PPS: this joke keeps me laughing, really..  can we have another on Friday
night ?  :-)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 08:52:08 -0400
From: "Frank W Sweet" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] You Assholes lost our funding!
To: "Opensim Users List" <[hidden email]>
Message-ID: <96BDE2717BF4431698E64207F59938FF@VM04>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

James Stallings II wrote, "Bravo Ralf, well done," refering to a
message by Ralf Haifisch that ends with, "Don?t blame other for a lack
of skills, prudence or you nervous customers."

I agree completely. Here is a project where a developer (with the
avowed support of other developers) plants a time-bomb that denotates
weeks later, rendering the software unusable in a way that cannot be
recovered by reverting to prior relases (which were aready secretly
contaminated). I agree with Ralf and Stallings. Anyone who continues
in such a project, knowing that this can happen again, is lacking in
prudence, skills, and will certainly have nervous customers.

By the way, how much longer is this thread going to continue? It seems
to me that everything that can be said has been said. Developers
(correctly) believe that they have the right to plant time bombs that
render the software useless because everyone is warned that the
software is pre-release (bleeding edge, trunk, whatever). I agree.
They have that right, since they are volunteers and need to commit a
"prank" now and then. On the other hand, some users (including me)
believe that prudence requires us to shun such a project because,
while we can live with bugs, which can be reverted, we cannot live
with with deliberate malware, which cannot.

FWS



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Re: You Assholes lost our funding!

Teravus Ovares
"PPS: this joke keeps me laughing, really..  can we have another on Friday
night ?  :-)"

I know the above statement is a joke from you..     and the answer is,
no.   It wouldn't be appropriate.

Sincerely

Teravus

On 4/2/09, Ralf Haifisch <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hey James,
>
>
> James Stallings II wrote, "Bravo Ralf, well done," refering to a
> message by Ralf Haifisch that ends with, "Don?t blame other for a lack
> of skills, prudence or you nervous customers."
>
> I agree completely. Here is a project where a developer (with the
> avowed support of other developers) plants a time-bomb that denotates
> weeks later
>
> --> with word picking i could easylie write a nuclear bomb compendium from
> the holy bible.
> --> however, you lost even context stealing word: the "asshole-mailer" was
> reclaiming leadership
> --> you are referring to a team member, while the decision was supported by
> the whole crew
> --> in the former IRC discussion, so management and board have been
> informed. Risc acceptance
> --> is a valid method.
>
> By the way, how much longer is this thread going to continue? It seems
> to me that everything that can be said has been said.
>
> --> agreed.  But if you want to open up a bible based document creation
> list, let me know.
> --> beware, I grew up between some lawyer and did take my debate club
> lessons
>
> Amen !
>
> PS: maybe open up a "RTFM" list for SVN/CVS and major/minor/patch numbering,
> as well
> PPS: this joke keeps me laughing, really..  can we have another on Friday
> night ?  :-)
> ------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 08:52:08 -0400
> From: "Frank W Sweet" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] You Assholes lost our funding!
> To: "Opensim Users List" <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <96BDE2717BF4431698E64207F59938FF@VM04>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> James Stallings II wrote, "Bravo Ralf, well done," refering to a
> message by Ralf Haifisch that ends with, "Don?t blame other for a lack
> of skills, prudence or you nervous customers."
>
> I agree completely. Here is a project where a developer (with the
> avowed support of other developers) plants a time-bomb that denotates
> weeks later, rendering the software unusable in a way that cannot be
> recovered by reverting to prior relases (which were aready secretly
> contaminated). I agree with Ralf and Stallings. Anyone who continues
> in such a project, knowing that this can happen again, is lacking in
> prudence, skills, and will certainly have nervous customers.
>
> By the way, how much longer is this thread going to continue? It seems
> to me that everything that can be said has been said. Developers
> (correctly) believe that they have the right to plant time bombs that
> render the software useless because everyone is warned that the
> software is pre-release (bleeding edge, trunk, whatever). I agree.
> They have that right, since they are volunteers and need to commit a
> "prank" now and then. On the other hand, some users (including me)
> believe that prudence requires us to shun such a project because,
> while we can live with bugs, which can be reverted, we cannot live
> with with deliberate malware, which cannot.
>
> FWS
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
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Re: You Assholes lost our funding!

mw-2
I really hope we can close this thread now. People on both sides got hurt. None of it was intended, but it happened.

I do hope the one good thing that comes from this whole issue is that people are more careful when using trunk. Some people did get burnt by this, which wasn't good. But to be honest I would rather they got burnt by that (which did no lasting damage to any data/system) rather than some un intended bug that might have caused data loss or something else.

--- On Thu, 2/4/09, Teravus Ovares <[hidden email]> wrote:
From: Teravus Ovares <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] You Assholes lost our funding!
To: [hidden email]
Date: Thursday, 2 April, 2009, 8:45 PM

"PPS: this joke keeps me laughing, really..  can we have another on Friday
night ? :-)"

I know the above statement is a joke from you.. and the answer is,
no. It wouldn't be appropriate.

Sincerely

Teravus

On 4/2/09, Ralf Haifisch <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hey James,
>
>
> James Stallings II wrote, "Bravo Ralf, well done," refering to a
> message by Ralf Haifisch that ends with, "Don?t blame other for a
lack
> of skills, prudence or you nervous customers."
>
> I agree completely. Here is a project where a developer (with the
> avowed support of other developers) plants a time-bomb that denotates
> weeks later
>
> --> with word picking i could easylie write a nuclear bomb compendium
from
> the holy bible.
> --> however, you lost even context stealing word: the
"asshole-mailer" was
> reclaiming leadership
> --> you are referring to a team member, while the decision was
supported by

> the whole crew
> --> in the former IRC discussion, so management and board have been
> informed. Risc acceptance
> --> is a valid method.
>
> By the way, how much longer is this thread going to continue? It seems
> to me that everything that can be said has been said.
>
> --> agreed. But if you want to open up a bible based document creation
> list, let me know.
> --> beware, I grew up between some lawyer and did take my debate club
> lessons
>
> Amen !
>
> PS: maybe open up a "RTFM" list for SVN/CVS and
major/minor/patch numbering,

> as well
> PPS: this joke keeps me laughing, really.. can we have another on Friday
> night ? :-)
> ------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 08:52:08 -0400
> From: "Frank W Sweet" <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] You Assholes lost our funding!
> To: "Opensim Users List" <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <96BDE2717BF4431698E64207F59938FF@VM04>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> James Stallings II wrote, "Bravo Ralf, well done," refering to a
> message by Ralf Haifisch that ends with, "Don?t blame other for a
lack

> of skills, prudence or you nervous customers."
>
> I agree completely. Here is a project where a developer (with the
> avowed support of other developers) plants a time-bomb that denotates
> weeks later, rendering the software unusable in a way that cannot be
> recovered by reverting to prior relases (which were aready secretly
> contaminated). I agree with Ralf and Stallings. Anyone who continues
> in such a project, knowing that this can happen again, is lacking in
> prudence, skills, and will certainly have nervous customers.
>
> By the way, how much longer is this thread going to continue? It seems
> to me that everything that can be said has been said. Developers
> (correctly) believe that they have the right to plant time bombs that
> render the software useless because everyone is warned that the
> software is pre-release (bleeding edge, trunk, whatever). I agree.
> They have that right, since they are volunteers and need to commit a
> "prank" now and then. On the other hand, some users (including
me)

> believe that prudence requires us to shun such a project because,
> while we can live with bugs, which can be reverted, we cannot live
> with with deliberate malware, which cannot.
>
> FWS
>
>
>
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Re: You Assholes lost our funding!

Brad Henry
In reply to this post by Frank W Sweet
Frank W Sweet wrote:
> James Stallings II wrote, "Bravo Ralf, well done," refering to a
> message by Ralf Haifisch that ends with, "Don´t blame other for a lack
> of skills, prudence or you nervous customers."
>
> I agree completely. Here is a project where a developer (with the
> avowed support of other developers) plants a time-bomb that denotates
> weeks later, rendering the software unusable in a way that cannot be
> recovered by reverting to prior relases
<snip>
This is untrue. You could have followed typical regression testing
techniques to determine the revision upon which this was introduced. But
you didn't.

Brad

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