creating bots at negative elevation

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creating bots at negative elevation

paul emery
I need to create some bots in our model of titanic which is underwater AND in fact is at negative elevation. My trigger object has a notecard with the bot information in it and a script with a touch_start event handler.
In the touch event are these lines of code.

vector npcPos = llGetPos()+<.5,0,0>;
pc = osNpcCreate("Mr.", "Bot", npcPos, "mycard");

What i find is that if the object is at zero elevation or above the bot is created half a meter from the object's position. However, if the object is at a negative elevation the bot is created at zero elevation and falls down to the elevation of the trigger object. This is interesting. Note that if the trigger object is up at any positive elevation the bot is created at that elevation.

The problem is that if i try to create a bot at a negative elevation in a room below deck i.e. that has a non-phantom roof the bot never can fall all the way down because they are not able to fall through the roof.

Any body got any ideas on how do deal with this. It does seem like expected behavior would be to allow npcPos() to include negative elevation.
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Re: creating bots at negative elevation

justincc
By negative elevation, I presume that you mean below some arbitrary plane, rather than below ground?
ScenePresence.CompleteMovement(), which is how the NPC (and any avatar) enters a scene does have code to prevent
attempted rezzing below ground.  This is just using a 1.5f constant.  It's possible that if you're very near the ground
then you would have a problem.

On 31/01/12 20:56, paul emery wrote:

> I need to create some bots in our model of titanic which is underwater AND in
> fact is at negative elevation. My trigger object has a notecard with the bot
> information in it and a script with a touch_start event handler.
> In the touch event are these lines of code.
>
> vector npcPos = llGetPos()+<.5,0,0>;
> pc = osNpcCreate("Mr.", "Bot", npcPos, "mycard");
>
> What i find is that if the object is at zero elevation or above the bot is
> created half a meter from the object's position. However, if the object is
> at a negative elevation the bot is created at zero elevation and falls down
> to the elevation of the trigger object. This is interesting. Note that if
> the trigger object is up at any positive elevation the bot is created at
> that elevation.
>
> The problem is that if i try to create a bot at a negative elevation in a
> room below deck i.e. that has a non-phantom roof the bot never can fall all
> the way down because they are not able to fall through the roof.
>
> Any body got any ideas on how do deal with this. It does seem like expected
> behavior would be to allow npcPos() to include negative elevation.
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://opensim-users.2152040.n2.nabble.com/creating-bots-at-negative-elevation-tp7241166p7241166.html
> Sent from the opensim-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>


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http://twitter.com/justincc
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Re: creating bots at negative elevation

Gudule Lapointe
(JCC: Having seen the project, I know this is not "under the ground", but deep in the water, which goes far below zero level, due to project needs…)

I wouldn't be surprised if NPC was just coded without thinking somebody would try to do this ;-)

Paul, I would suggest using the NPC sit functions on an object at the desired position (http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OsNpcSit) to force the NPC go that deep, and after that you are free to make it stand or stay sitting…



Le 1 févr. 2012 à 01:36, Justin Clark-Casey a écrit :

> By negative elevation, I presume that you mean below some arbitrary plane, rather than below ground? ScenePresence.CompleteMovement(), which is how the NPC (and any avatar) enters a scene does have code to prevent attempted rezzing below ground.  This is just using a 1.5f constant.  It's possible that if you're very near the ground then you would have a problem.
>
> On 31/01/12 20:56, paul emery wrote:
>> I need to create some bots in our model of titanic which is underwater AND in
>> fact is at negative elevation. My trigger object has a notecard with the bot
>> information in it and a script with a touch_start event handler.
>> In the touch event are these lines of code.
>>
>> vector npcPos = llGetPos()+<.5,0,0>;
>> pc = osNpcCreate("Mr.", "Bot", npcPos, "mycard");
>>
>> What i find is that if the object is at zero elevation or above the bot is
>> created half a meter from the object's position. However, if the object is
>> at a negative elevation the bot is created at zero elevation and falls down
>> to the elevation of the trigger object. This is interesting. Note that if
>> the trigger object is up at any positive elevation the bot is created at
>> that elevation.
>>
>> The problem is that if i try to create a bot at a negative elevation in a
>> room below deck i.e. that has a non-phantom roof the bot never can fall all
>> the way down because they are not able to fall through the roof.
>>
>> Any body got any ideas on how do deal with this. It does seem like expected
>> behavior would be to allow npcPos() to include negative elevation.
>>
>>
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://opensim-users.2152040.n2.nabble.com/creating-bots-at-negative-elevation-tp7241166p7241166.html
>> Sent from the opensim-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>
>
>
> --
> Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
> http://justincc.org/blog
> http://twitter.com/justincc
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users

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Re: creating bots at negative elevation

justincc
To me, zero level is the co-ordinate z = 0, where it's totally illegal to try and place anything in a negative
co-ordinate.  Under the water is different, at which point ground, to me, is the sea/riverbed.

On 01/02/12 00:52, Gudule Lapointe wrote:

> (JCC: Having seen the project, I know this is not "under the ground", but deep in the water, which goes far below zero level, due to project needs…)
>
> I wouldn't be surprised if NPC was just coded without thinking somebody would try to do this ;-)
>
> Paul, I would suggest using the NPC sit functions on an object at the desired position (http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OsNpcSit) to force the NPC go that deep, and after that you are free to make it stand or stay sitting…
>
>
>
> Le 1 févr. 2012 à 01:36, Justin Clark-Casey a écrit :
>
>> By negative elevation, I presume that you mean below some arbitrary plane, rather than below ground? ScenePresence.CompleteMovement(), which is how the NPC (and any avatar) enters a scene does have code to prevent attempted rezzing below ground.  This is just using a 1.5f constant.  It's possible that if you're very near the ground then you would have a problem.
>>
>> On 31/01/12 20:56, paul emery wrote:
>>> I need to create some bots in our model of titanic which is underwater AND in
>>> fact is at negative elevation. My trigger object has a notecard with the bot
>>> information in it and a script with a touch_start event handler.
>>> In the touch event are these lines of code.
>>>
>>> vector npcPos = llGetPos()+<.5,0,0>;
>>> pc = osNpcCreate("Mr.", "Bot", npcPos, "mycard");
>>>
>>> What i find is that if the object is at zero elevation or above the bot is
>>> created half a meter from the object's position. However, if the object is
>>> at a negative elevation the bot is created at zero elevation and falls down
>>> to the elevation of the trigger object. This is interesting. Note that if
>>> the trigger object is up at any positive elevation the bot is created at
>>> that elevation.
>>>
>>> The problem is that if i try to create a bot at a negative elevation in a
>>> room below deck i.e. that has a non-phantom roof the bot never can fall all
>>> the way down because they are not able to fall through the roof.
>>>
>>> Any body got any ideas on how do deal with this. It does seem like expected
>>> behavior would be to allow npcPos() to include negative elevation.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> View this message in context: http://opensim-users.2152040.n2.nabble.com/creating-bots-at-negative-elevation-tp7241166p7241166.html
>>> Sent from the opensim-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
>> http://justincc.org/blog
>> http://twitter.com/justincc
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>


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http://twitter.com/justincc
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Re: creating bots at negative elevation

Gudule Lapointe
Call the police ;-)

In my viewer, the region settings show, by default:
        - water height 20
        - terrain raise limit: 100
        - terrain lower limit: -100

These are the default values, I didn't change them, so I guess it's not "illegal" to go under zero… Or is the terrain lower limit based on something else than elevation?

Though I admit it's odd to want to go so deep, I understand it's needed for a big under-water project like Titanic….
(the only work-around would be to change water elevation, which would be quite odd for surrounding regions)


Le 1 févr. 2012 à 01:59, Justin Clark-Casey a écrit :

> To me, zero level is the co-ordinate z = 0, where it's totally illegal to try and place anything in a negative co-ordinate.  Under the water is different, at which point ground, to me, is the sea/riverbed.
>
> On 01/02/12 00:52, Gudule Lapointe wrote:
>> (JCC: Having seen the project, I know this is not "under the ground", but deep in the water, which goes far below zero level, due to project needs…)
>>
>> I wouldn't be surprised if NPC was just coded without thinking somebody would try to do this ;-)
>>
>> Paul, I would suggest using the NPC sit functions on an object at the desired position (http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OsNpcSit) to force the NPC go that deep, and after that you are free to make it stand or stay sitting…
>>
>>
>>
>> Le 1 févr. 2012 à 01:36, Justin Clark-Casey a écrit :
>>
>>> By negative elevation, I presume that you mean below some arbitrary plane, rather than below ground? ScenePresence.CompleteMovement(), which is how the NPC (and any avatar) enters a scene does have code to prevent attempted rezzing below ground.  This is just using a 1.5f constant.  It's possible that if you're very near the ground then you would have a problem.
>>>
>>> On 31/01/12 20:56, paul emery wrote:
>>>> I need to create some bots in our model of titanic which is underwater AND in
>>>> fact is at negative elevation. My trigger object has a notecard with the bot
>>>> information in it and a script with a touch_start event handler.
>>>> In the touch event are these lines of code.
>>>>
>>>> vector npcPos = llGetPos()+<.5,0,0>;
>>>> pc = osNpcCreate("Mr.", "Bot", npcPos, "mycard");
>>>>
>>>> What i find is that if the object is at zero elevation or above the bot is
>>>> created half a meter from the object's position. However, if the object is
>>>> at a negative elevation the bot is created at zero elevation and falls down
>>>> to the elevation of the trigger object. This is interesting. Note that if
>>>> the trigger object is up at any positive elevation the bot is created at
>>>> that elevation.
>>>>
>>>> The problem is that if i try to create a bot at a negative elevation in a
>>>> room below deck i.e. that has a non-phantom roof the bot never can fall all
>>>> the way down because they are not able to fall through the roof.
>>>>
>>>> Any body got any ideas on how do deal with this. It does seem like expected
>>>> behavior would be to allow npcPos() to include negative elevation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> View this message in context: http://opensim-users.2152040.n2.nabble.com/creating-bots-at-negative-elevation-tp7241166p7241166.html
>>>> Sent from the opensim-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
>>> http://justincc.org/blog
>>> http://twitter.com/justincc
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>
>
>
> --
> Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
> http://justincc.org/blog
> http://twitter.com/justincc
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>

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Re: creating bots at negative elevation

justincc
This number is probably coming from the default hard-coded limit in OpenSim.Framework.RegionSettings:m_TerrainLowerLimit
(line 344).  My guess is that this is wrong and it should be zero.  I will change this soon unless somebody corrects me
or I learn otherwise.

It's is most definitely extremely naughty and illegal to try and break the bounds of region space and would most
probably earn you an ODE native stacktrace in the face :)

On 01/02/12 01:08, Gudule Lapointe wrote:

> Call the police ;-)
>
> In my viewer, the region settings show, by default:
> - water height 20
> - terrain raise limit: 100
> - terrain lower limit: -100
>
> These are the default values, I didn't change them, so I guess it's not "illegal" to go under zero… Or is the terrain lower limit based on something else than elevation?
>
> Though I admit it's odd to want to go so deep, I understand it's needed for a big under-water project like Titanic….
> (the only work-around would be to change water elevation, which would be quite odd for surrounding regions)
>
>
> Le 1 févr. 2012 à 01:59, Justin Clark-Casey a écrit :
>
>> To me, zero level is the co-ordinate z = 0, where it's totally illegal to try and place anything in a negative co-ordinate.  Under the water is different, at which point ground, to me, is the sea/riverbed.
>>
>> On 01/02/12 00:52, Gudule Lapointe wrote:
>>> (JCC: Having seen the project, I know this is not "under the ground", but deep in the water, which goes far below zero level, due to project needs…)
>>>
>>> I wouldn't be surprised if NPC was just coded without thinking somebody would try to do this ;-)
>>>
>>> Paul, I would suggest using the NPC sit functions on an object at the desired position (http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OsNpcSit) to force the NPC go that deep, and after that you are free to make it stand or stay sitting…
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 1 févr. 2012 à 01:36, Justin Clark-Casey a écrit :
>>>
>>>> By negative elevation, I presume that you mean below some arbitrary plane, rather than below ground? ScenePresence.CompleteMovement(), which is how the NPC (and any avatar) enters a scene does have code to prevent attempted rezzing below ground.  This is just using a 1.5f constant.  It's possible that if you're very near the ground then you would have a problem.
>>>>
>>>> On 31/01/12 20:56, paul emery wrote:
>>>>> I need to create some bots in our model of titanic which is underwater AND in
>>>>> fact is at negative elevation. My trigger object has a notecard with the bot
>>>>> information in it and a script with a touch_start event handler.
>>>>> In the touch event are these lines of code.
>>>>>
>>>>> vector npcPos = llGetPos()+<.5,0,0>;
>>>>> pc = osNpcCreate("Mr.", "Bot", npcPos, "mycard");
>>>>>
>>>>> What i find is that if the object is at zero elevation or above the bot is
>>>>> created half a meter from the object's position. However, if the object is
>>>>> at a negative elevation the bot is created at zero elevation and falls down
>>>>> to the elevation of the trigger object. This is interesting. Note that if
>>>>> the trigger object is up at any positive elevation the bot is created at
>>>>> that elevation.
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem is that if i try to create a bot at a negative elevation in a
>>>>> room below deck i.e. that has a non-phantom roof the bot never can fall all
>>>>> the way down because they are not able to fall through the roof.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any body got any ideas on how do deal with this. It does seem like expected
>>>>> behavior would be to allow npcPos() to include negative elevation.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> View this message in context: http://opensim-users.2152040.n2.nabble.com/creating-bots-at-negative-elevation-tp7241166p7241166.html
>>>>> Sent from the opensim-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
>>>> http://justincc.org/blog
>>>> http://twitter.com/justincc
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
>> http://justincc.org/blog
>> http://twitter.com/justincc
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>


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http://twitter.com/justincc
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Re: creating bots at negative elevation

justincc
In reply to this post by Gudule Lapointe
Actually quickly googling makes me come across my own webpage where terrain lower limit was changed way way back to -100
instead of 100, apparantly to remove terraforming issues in manipulating land below 100m.  Why this is -100 rather than
zero though I don't yet know.

[1] http://justincc.org/blog/2008/07/06/this-week-in-opensim-dev-week-ending-saturday-5th-july-2008/

On 01/02/12 01:08, Gudule Lapointe wrote:

> Call the police ;-)
>
> In my viewer, the region settings show, by default:
> - water height 20
> - terrain raise limit: 100
> - terrain lower limit: -100
>
> These are the default values, I didn't change them, so I guess it's not "illegal" to go under zero… Or is the terrain lower limit based on something else than elevation?
>
> Though I admit it's odd to want to go so deep, I understand it's needed for a big under-water project like Titanic….
> (the only work-around would be to change water elevation, which would be quite odd for surrounding regions)
>
>
> Le 1 févr. 2012 à 01:59, Justin Clark-Casey a écrit :
>
>> To me, zero level is the co-ordinate z = 0, where it's totally illegal to try and place anything in a negative co-ordinate.  Under the water is different, at which point ground, to me, is the sea/riverbed.
>>
>> On 01/02/12 00:52, Gudule Lapointe wrote:
>>> (JCC: Having seen the project, I know this is not "under the ground", but deep in the water, which goes far below zero level, due to project needs…)
>>>
>>> I wouldn't be surprised if NPC was just coded without thinking somebody would try to do this ;-)
>>>
>>> Paul, I would suggest using the NPC sit functions on an object at the desired position (http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OsNpcSit) to force the NPC go that deep, and after that you are free to make it stand or stay sitting…
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 1 févr. 2012 à 01:36, Justin Clark-Casey a écrit :
>>>
>>>> By negative elevation, I presume that you mean below some arbitrary plane, rather than below ground? ScenePresence.CompleteMovement(), which is how the NPC (and any avatar) enters a scene does have code to prevent attempted rezzing below ground.  This is just using a 1.5f constant.  It's possible that if you're very near the ground then you would have a problem.
>>>>
>>>> On 31/01/12 20:56, paul emery wrote:
>>>>> I need to create some bots in our model of titanic which is underwater AND in
>>>>> fact is at negative elevation. My trigger object has a notecard with the bot
>>>>> information in it and a script with a touch_start event handler.
>>>>> In the touch event are these lines of code.
>>>>>
>>>>> vector npcPos = llGetPos()+<.5,0,0>;
>>>>> pc = osNpcCreate("Mr.", "Bot", npcPos, "mycard");
>>>>>
>>>>> What i find is that if the object is at zero elevation or above the bot is
>>>>> created half a meter from the object's position. However, if the object is
>>>>> at a negative elevation the bot is created at zero elevation and falls down
>>>>> to the elevation of the trigger object. This is interesting. Note that if
>>>>> the trigger object is up at any positive elevation the bot is created at
>>>>> that elevation.
>>>>>
>>>>> The problem is that if i try to create a bot at a negative elevation in a
>>>>> room below deck i.e. that has a non-phantom roof the bot never can fall all
>>>>> the way down because they are not able to fall through the roof.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any body got any ideas on how do deal with this. It does seem like expected
>>>>> behavior would be to allow npcPos() to include negative elevation.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> View this message in context: http://opensim-users.2152040.n2.nabble.com/creating-bots-at-negative-elevation-tp7241166p7241166.html
>>>>> Sent from the opensim-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
>>>> http://justincc.org/blog
>>>> http://twitter.com/justincc
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
>> http://justincc.org/blog
>> http://twitter.com/justincc
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>


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http://twitter.com/justincc
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Re: creating bots at negative elevation

Gudule Lapointe
Just checked in Second Life (argh) where raise and lower are set to 20 and -20. Which sounds more familiar with ground level set to 20.

Would it be possible that lower limit is the limit allowed from ground level? And thus, should not have been set with a low limit greater that ground level?

(Just an idea, don't take this as an advice, I don't know much about OpenSim nor the viewers core code)


Le 1 févr. 2012 à 02:16, Justin Clark-Casey a écrit :

> Actually quickly googling makes me come across my own webpage where terrain lower limit was changed way way back to -100 instead of 100, apparantly to remove terraforming issues in manipulating land below 100m.  Why this is -100 rather than zero though I don't yet know.
>
> [1] http://justincc.org/blog/2008/07/06/this-week-in-opensim-dev-week-ending-saturday-5th-july-2008/
>
> On 01/02/12 01:08, Gudule Lapointe wrote:
>> Call the police ;-)
>>
>> In my viewer, the region settings show, by default:
>> - water height 20
>> - terrain raise limit: 100
>> - terrain lower limit: -100
>>
>> These are the default values, I didn't change them, so I guess it's not "illegal" to go under zero… Or is the terrain lower limit based on something else than elevation?
>>
>> Though I admit it's odd to want to go so deep, I understand it's needed for a big under-water project like Titanic….
>> (the only work-around would be to change water elevation, which would be quite odd for surrounding regions)
>>
>>
>> Le 1 févr. 2012 à 01:59, Justin Clark-Casey a écrit :
>>
>>> To me, zero level is the co-ordinate z = 0, where it's totally illegal to try and place anything in a negative co-ordinate.  Under the water is different, at which point ground, to me, is the sea/riverbed.
>>>
>>> On 01/02/12 00:52, Gudule Lapointe wrote:
>>>> (JCC: Having seen the project, I know this is not "under the ground", but deep in the water, which goes far below zero level, due to project needs…)
>>>>
>>>> I wouldn't be surprised if NPC was just coded without thinking somebody would try to do this ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Paul, I would suggest using the NPC sit functions on an object at the desired position (http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OsNpcSit) to force the NPC go that deep, and after that you are free to make it stand or stay sitting…
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Le 1 févr. 2012 à 01:36, Justin Clark-Casey a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>> By negative elevation, I presume that you mean below some arbitrary plane, rather than below ground? ScenePresence.CompleteMovement(), which is how the NPC (and any avatar) enters a scene does have code to prevent attempted rezzing below ground.  This is just using a 1.5f constant.  It's possible that if you're very near the ground then you would have a problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 31/01/12 20:56, paul emery wrote:
>>>>>> I need to create some bots in our model of titanic which is underwater AND in
>>>>>> fact is at negative elevation. My trigger object has a notecard with the bot
>>>>>> information in it and a script with a touch_start event handler.
>>>>>> In the touch event are these lines of code.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> vector npcPos = llGetPos()+<.5,0,0>;
>>>>>> pc = osNpcCreate("Mr.", "Bot", npcPos, "mycard");
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What i find is that if the object is at zero elevation or above the bot is
>>>>>> created half a meter from the object's position. However, if the object is
>>>>>> at a negative elevation the bot is created at zero elevation and falls down
>>>>>> to the elevation of the trigger object. This is interesting. Note that if
>>>>>> the trigger object is up at any positive elevation the bot is created at
>>>>>> that elevation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The problem is that if i try to create a bot at a negative elevation in a
>>>>>> room below deck i.e. that has a non-phantom roof the bot never can fall all
>>>>>> the way down because they are not able to fall through the roof.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any body got any ideas on how do deal with this. It does seem like expected
>>>>>> behavior would be to allow npcPos() to include negative elevation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> View this message in context: http://opensim-users.2152040.n2.nabble.com/creating-bots-at-negative-elevation-tp7241166p7241166.html
>>>>>> Sent from the opensim-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
>>>>> http://justincc.org/blog
>>>>> http://twitter.com/justincc
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>>>
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>>> http://justincc.org/blog
>>> http://twitter.com/justincc
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Re: creating bots at negative elevation

justincc
If it's -20 on SL then that could well be the case.  Thanks for looking that up.

On 01/02/12 01:23, Gudule Lapointe wrote:

> Just checked in Second Life (argh) where raise and lower are set to 20 and -20. Which sounds more familiar with ground level set to 20.
>
> Would it be possible that lower limit is the limit allowed from ground level? And thus, should not have been set with a low limit greater that ground level?
>
> (Just an idea, don't take this as an advice, I don't know much about OpenSim nor the viewers core code)
>
>
> Le 1 févr. 2012 à 02:16, Justin Clark-Casey a écrit :
>
>> Actually quickly googling makes me come across my own webpage where terrain lower limit was changed way way back to -100 instead of 100, apparantly to remove terraforming issues in manipulating land below 100m.  Why this is -100 rather than zero though I don't yet know.
>>
>> [1] http://justincc.org/blog/2008/07/06/this-week-in-opensim-dev-week-ending-saturday-5th-july-2008/
>>
>> On 01/02/12 01:08, Gudule Lapointe wrote:
>>> Call the police ;-)
>>>
>>> In my viewer, the region settings show, by default:
>>> - water height 20
>>> - terrain raise limit: 100
>>> - terrain lower limit: -100
>>>
>>> These are the default values, I didn't change them, so I guess it's not "illegal" to go under zero… Or is the terrain lower limit based on something else than elevation?
>>>
>>> Though I admit it's odd to want to go so deep, I understand it's needed for a big under-water project like Titanic….
>>> (the only work-around would be to change water elevation, which would be quite odd for surrounding regions)
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 1 févr. 2012 à 01:59, Justin Clark-Casey a écrit :
>>>
>>>> To me, zero level is the co-ordinate z = 0, where it's totally illegal to try and place anything in a negative co-ordinate.  Under the water is different, at which point ground, to me, is the sea/riverbed.
>>>>
>>>> On 01/02/12 00:52, Gudule Lapointe wrote:
>>>>> (JCC: Having seen the project, I know this is not "under the ground", but deep in the water, which goes far below zero level, due to project needs…)
>>>>>
>>>>> I wouldn't be surprised if NPC was just coded without thinking somebody would try to do this ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul, I would suggest using the NPC sit functions on an object at the desired position (http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OsNpcSit) to force the NPC go that deep, and after that you are free to make it stand or stay sitting…
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 1 févr. 2012 à 01:36, Justin Clark-Casey a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>>> By negative elevation, I presume that you mean below some arbitrary plane, rather than below ground? ScenePresence.CompleteMovement(), which is how the NPC (and any avatar) enters a scene does have code to prevent attempted rezzing below ground.  This is just using a 1.5f constant.  It's possible that if you're very near the ground then you would have a problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 31/01/12 20:56, paul emery wrote:
>>>>>>> I need to create some bots in our model of titanic which is underwater AND in
>>>>>>> fact is at negative elevation. My trigger object has a notecard with the bot
>>>>>>> information in it and a script with a touch_start event handler.
>>>>>>> In the touch event are these lines of code.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> vector npcPos = llGetPos()+<.5,0,0>;
>>>>>>> pc = osNpcCreate("Mr.", "Bot", npcPos, "mycard");
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What i find is that if the object is at zero elevation or above the bot is
>>>>>>> created half a meter from the object's position. However, if the object is
>>>>>>> at a negative elevation the bot is created at zero elevation and falls down
>>>>>>> to the elevation of the trigger object. This is interesting. Note that if
>>>>>>> the trigger object is up at any positive elevation the bot is created at
>>>>>>> that elevation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The problem is that if i try to create a bot at a negative elevation in a
>>>>>>> room below deck i.e. that has a non-phantom roof the bot never can fall all
>>>>>>> the way down because they are not able to fall through the roof.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any body got any ideas on how do deal with this. It does seem like expected
>>>>>>> behavior would be to allow npcPos() to include negative elevation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> View this message in context: http://opensim-users.2152040.n2.nabble.com/creating-bots-at-negative-elevation-tp7241166p7241166.html
>>>>>>> Sent from the opensim-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
>>>>>> http://justincc.org/blog
>>>>>> http://twitter.com/justincc
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
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>>>> http://justincc.org/blog
>>>> http://twitter.com/justincc
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>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
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Re: creating bots at negative elevation

paul emery
In reply to this post by paul emery
The titanic is a very big ship - (in os terms that is 80 meters). We want to sink it. We tried putting it at z=0 and putting a phantom water texture prim up at about z=100 with huge water textured prims around the whole region. Looked liked crap not to mention didn't make sense with the surrounding regions.

We are building lots of stuff below z=0 and everthing looks find and dandy. The bots that need to be up on deck work find also. They just sort of appear from above. np. Only issue is the bots that need to be below deck. I will try Gudule's suggestion of npcSit.
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Re: creating bots at negative elevation

Gudule Lapointe
In private, because it's another concern than the original post:

> everthing looks find and dandy

Not to mention every visitor has to change his viewer's settings to disable the water fog ;-)

Joke apart, I love your project, but the NPC is not the main issue to fix, imho… For me, the water fog is a big, big issue, as you can't ask every user to change settings, so a lot of them will just give up before visiting…


Le 1 févr. 2012 à 02:30, paul emery a écrit :

> The titanic is a very big ship - (in os terms that is 80 meters). We want to
> sink it. We tried putting it at z=0 and putting a phantom water texture prim
> up at about z=100 with huge water textured prims around the whole region.
> Looked liked crap not to mention didn't make sense with the surrounding
> regions.
>
> We are building lots of stuff below z=0 and everthing looks find and dandy.
> The bots that need to be up on deck work find also. They just sort of appear
> from above. np. Only issue is the bots that need to be below deck. I will
> try Gudule's suggestion of npcSit.
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://opensim-users.2152040.n2.nabble.com/creating-bots-at-negative-elevation-tp7241166p7241856.html
> Sent from the opensim-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> _______________________________________________
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Re: creating bots at negative elevation

paul emery
In reply to this post by justincc
To understand what we are trying to do check out
BelfastIrelandHarbor/218/103/-44 on osgrid (note z = -44 )

Have your ava sit on the pink cushion and you will waltz with Mauvereen Ohara bot.
as mentioned by Gudule we have a problem with fog being to dense. However if you set time of day to noon. it actually is not so bad and i think we can make that the time of day permanently.
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Re: creating bots at negative elevation

Marcus Llewellyn
In reply to this post by paul emery
On 1/31/2012 7:30 PM, paul emery wrote:
> The titanic is a very big ship - (in os terms that is 80 meters). We want to
> sink it. We tried putting it at z=0 and putting a phantom water texture prim
> up at about z=100 with huge water textured prims around the whole region.
> Looked liked crap not to mention didn't make sense with the surrounding
> regions.

I'm just curious... rather than pushing it below zero meters, why not
raise the region's water level with osSetRegionWaterHeight()
(http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OsSetRegionWaterHeight)? This will still
look funny to neighboring regions who have the default water level, but
would look much nicer within your project's region(s) while avoiding all
the physics issues.

Marcus
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Re: creating bots at negative elevation

paul emery
In reply to this post by justincc
Well if you prevent os from allowing z be negative i worry that it will break our build which has 5 or 6 weeks of work into it. Also i would think that if z can't be negative then the default setting for water level should be more then z=20. Surely other people will want an ocean deaper then 20 meters. If i am confused please correct me.
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Re: creating bots at negative elevation

Stiofain MacTomais
This post has NOT been accepted by the mailing list yet.
ok the titanic takes up an area 128 x 256
the other half is buildings that still exist in rl belfast and the important thing is that u can walk there from other belfast buildings
raising the land to +100 is a non-starter
we have tried and the fog issues that gudule mentions are still the same
but we have decided we are prepared to live with them and give out a collider notecard when u hit the sea surface to explain
the land ( seabed?) is set at -80
water at 20
and a platform with the related buildings set at 26
the bots ( a band and dancers bar tender etc) are all in the main ballroom at around -40
when u rezz a bot they seem to start at 0 meters and then float down to the desired position but if there is a prim in the way
(which there are several because of the diff decks)
the bot lands on that prim
we can make a path thru phantom prims to let the bots drop to desired positions
but it seems that this should be an issue for the devs
ie making negative land values useable
stio
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Re: creating bots at negative elevation

R.Gunther
In reply to this post by paul emery
On 2012-02-01 23:34, paul emery wrote:
> Well if you prevent os from allowing z be negative i worry that it will break
> our build which has 5 or 6 weeks of work into it. Also i would think that if
> z can't be negative then the default setting for water level should be more
> then z=20. Surely other people will want an ocean deaper then 20 meters. If
> i am confused please correct me.
>

If you dont have neighborns. solution is to raise the watre level above
20 meters
and maby turn the build then in the right direction.

so, build at 20 meters level. and raise water to say 50 meters.
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Re: creating bots at negative elevation

Robert L martin
In reply to this post by paul emery
On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 5:34 PM, paul emery <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Surely other people will want an ocean deaper then 20 meters. If
> i am confused please correct me.

as it happens most folks are running Normal Human grids so a 60 foot
ocean depth is enough
Now if somebody decided to run a MerGrid they might want to have a deeper Ocean.


as a side note does anybody have a good OS safe Swim Script (bonus if
you have a full AO)??

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Re: creating bots at negative elevation

justincc
So I visited the region and I see you do have ground going below z = 0.  Is this legal on the Linden Lab grid?  If not
then I certainly wouldn't rely on it, since the viewer may do unpredictable things.

I couldn't find any information on min depth or see any deep water sims on the Linden Lab grid, which to me implies that
the min z is 0.

On 02/02/12 17:29, Robert Martin wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 5:34 PM, paul emery<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> Surely other people will want an ocean deaper then 20 meters. If
>> i am confused please correct me.
>
> as it happens most folks are running Normal Human grids so a 60 foot
> ocean depth is enough
> Now if somebody decided to run a MerGrid they might want to have a deeper Ocean.
>
>
> as a side note does anybody have a good OS safe Swim Script (bonus if
> you have a full AO)??
>


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Re: creating bots at negative elevation

Randy Pierce
@ Justin: this is a true statement. Lowest z-depth is at 0 meters.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Justin
Clark-Casey
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 5:24 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] creating bots at negative elevation

So I visited the region and I see you do have ground going below z = 0.  Is
this legal on the Linden Lab grid?  If not then I certainly wouldn't rely on
it, since the viewer may do unpredictable things.

I couldn't find any information on min depth or see any deep water sims on
the Linden Lab grid, which to me implies that the min z is 0.

On 02/02/12 17:29, Robert Martin wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 5:34 PM, paul emery<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> Surely other people will want an ocean deaper then 20 meters. If i am
>> confused please correct me.
>
> as it happens most folks are running Normal Human grids so a 60 foot
> ocean depth is enough Now if somebody decided to run a MerGrid they
> might want to have a deeper Ocean.
>
>
> as a side note does anybody have a good OS safe Swim Script (bonus if
> you have a full AO)??
>


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Re: creating bots at negative elevation

Gudule Lapointe
@Pierce: It would be interesting if you have the source of this information.
If it's documented somewhere, the page is the missing link for some of us…


Le 3 févr. 2012 à 04:46, The Pierce Family a écrit :

> @ Justin: this is a true statement. Lowest z-depth is at 0 meters.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Justin
> Clark-Casey
> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 5:24 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] creating bots at negative elevation
>
> So I visited the region and I see you do have ground going below z = 0.  Is
> this legal on the Linden Lab grid?  If not then I certainly wouldn't rely on
> it, since the viewer may do unpredictable things.
>
> I couldn't find any information on min depth or see any deep water sims on
> the Linden Lab grid, which to me implies that the min z is 0.
>
> On 02/02/12 17:29, Robert Martin wrote:
>> On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 5:34 PM, paul emery<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>> Surely other people will want an ocean deaper then 20 meters. If i am
>>> confused please correct me.
>>
>> as it happens most folks are running Normal Human grids so a 60 foot
>> ocean depth is enough Now if somebody decided to run a MerGrid they
>> might want to have a deeper Ocean.
>>
>>
>> as a side note does anybody have a good OS safe Swim Script (bonus if
>> you have a full AO)??
>>
>
>
> --
> Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
> http://justincc.org/blog
> http://twitter.com/justincc
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