singularity vs firestorm

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
13 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

singularity vs firestorm

Dr Ramesh Ramloll
Hello there,
I am wondering why singularity is a better viewer than firestorm. I suppose it is because I see the opensimcc is recommending to use it. Ive never used singularity. Please share your thoughts. Is the fps for e.g. significantly better, shadow rendering etc... etc.. I am always willing to learn more.
Thank you.
Ramesh



_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: singularity vs firestorm

Melanie
Singularity combines the tried and proven, efficient user interface
of the v1 viewer series with the advanced rendering features of the
v3 series of viewers.

The v3 interface was simplified (some say "dumbed down") to
accommodate a new class of users who are not necessarily creators.
Also, it was enhanced (some say cluttered) with a lot of web site
links to various parts of the LL site. TPV policy mandates that the
SecondLife web integration features may not be removed from any TPV
that wishes to connect to SecondLife. Of course, this only affects
the v3 UI. Some consider the links and buttons that lead to places
like showcase or marketplace little more than marketing spam while
others value them as convenient shortcuts to places they visit often.

Viewers need to be as diverse as the people who use them, no one
size fits all. Singularity's interface is aimed at people who just
want to get the job done. Lacking all the fancy doo-dads, bells and
whistles, it offers a functional, streamlined power user UI.

If you like Firestorm, Singularity may not be for you. It's
different. I have, for instance, spoken to people who can't handle
chat with the "Name: Text" format, but instead need the highlighted
name on a line by itself. v3 style, to be able to keep track.

Singularity doesn't waste an inch of screen space, it's UI is very
compact to allow you the maximum world window while still keeping
chats and build tools in view.

I prefer that.

Melanie
_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: singularity vs firestorm

Dr Ramesh Ramloll
Thanks Melanie, this motivate me for trying it out. For my user training strategy, I try to stick to only one viewer ... so I will check it out and consider whether I need to shift from Firestorm.


On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 10:45 PM, Melanie <[hidden email]> wrote:
Singularity combines the tried and proven, efficient user interface
of the v1 viewer series with the advanced rendering features of the
v3 series of viewers.

The v3 interface was simplified (some say "dumbed down") to
accommodate a new class of users who are not necessarily creators.
Also, it was enhanced (some say cluttered) with a lot of web site
links to various parts of the LL site. TPV policy mandates that the
SecondLife web integration features may not be removed from any TPV
that wishes to connect to SecondLife. Of course, this only affects
the v3 UI. Some consider the links and buttons that lead to places
like showcase or marketplace little more than marketing spam while
others value them as convenient shortcuts to places they visit often.

Viewers need to be as diverse as the people who use them, no one
size fits all. Singularity's interface is aimed at people who just
want to get the job done. Lacking all the fancy doo-dads, bells and
whistles, it offers a functional, streamlined power user UI.

If you like Firestorm, Singularity may not be for you. It's
different. I have, for instance, spoken to people who can't handle
chat with the "Name: Text" format, but instead need the highlighted
name on a line by itself. v3 style, to be able to keep track.

Singularity doesn't waste an inch of screen space, it's UI is very
compact to allow you the maximum world window while still keeping
chats and build tools in view.

I prefer that.

Melanie
_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



--
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate Research Associate Professor, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: 208-240-0040

_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: singularity vs firestorm

Ovi Chris Rouly
In reply to this post by Melanie
Melanie, (and others of course)
 
I would very much like to see (and be willing to pay a license fee for) a viewer that had little more capacity than to render (out to a kilometer), support navigation (including hypergridded TP), and have robust login security (I don't know, maybe 128-bit).  Does such a "viewer"/renderer exist?
 
V/r,
 
Chris
 
PS If the viewer I just described could run in a "browser" that too would be even more terrific!
 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2013 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] singularity vs firestorm

Thanks Melanie, this motivate me for trying it out. For my user training strategy, I try to stick to only one viewer ... so I will check it out and consider whether I need to shift from Firestorm.


On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 10:45 PM, Melanie <[hidden email]> wrote:
Singularity combines the tried and proven, efficient user interface
of the v1 viewer series with the advanced rendering features of the
v3 series of viewers.

The v3 interface was simplified (some say "dumbed down") to
accommodate a new class of users who are not necessarily creators.
Also, it was enhanced (some say cluttered) with a lot of web site
links to various parts of the LL site. TPV policy mandates that the
SecondLife web integration features may not be removed from any TPV
that wishes to connect to SecondLife. Of course, this only affects
the v3 UI. Some consider the links and buttons that lead to places
like showcase or marketplace little more than marketing spam while
others value them as convenient shortcuts to places they visit often.

Viewers need to be as diverse as the people who use them, no one
size fits all. Singularity's interface is aimed at people who just
want to get the job done. Lacking all the fancy doo-dads, bells and
whistles, it offers a functional, streamlined power user UI.

If you like Firestorm, Singularity may not be for you. It's
different. I have, for instance, spoken to people who can't handle
chat with the "Name: Text" format, but instead need the highlighted
name on a line by itself. v3 style, to be able to keep track.

Singularity doesn't waste an inch of screen space, it's UI is very
compact to allow you the maximum world window while still keeping
chats and build tools in view.

I prefer that.

Melanie
_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



--
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate Research Associate Professor, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: 208-240-0040


_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users

_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: singularity vs firestorm

Sarge Misfit
I use Phoenix for the most part, but having heard so much about Singularity, I just now gave it a quick try. Very quick. I checked a couple of basic building functions and exporting.

Exporting: I use Angstrom 1.1.7 (28947) as it uses the HPA format, allowing me to export the contents of my builds.
Importing: Singularity will import Mesh and XML. Phoenix also imports Mesh and Cool VL Viewer imports XML.
Building: Singularity will hollow to 95% and has a nanoprim dimension of 0.01m. Phoenix will hollow to 99% and has a nanoprim dimension of 0.001m.

So, for me, its Phoenix to do my building and importing Mesh, Angstrom for Importing/Exporting my builds and Cool VL Viewer for importing XMLs. If it can be shown that Singularity handles XMLs better than Cool VL, I will switch to suing Singularity for XMLs.



On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 8:35 PM, Ovi Chris Rouly <[hidden email]> wrote:
Melanie, (and others of course)
 
I would very much like to see (and be willing to pay a license fee for) a viewer that had little more capacity than to render (out to a kilometer), support navigation (including hypergridded TP), and have robust login security (I don't know, maybe 128-bit).  Does such a "viewer"/renderer exist?
 
V/r,
 
Chris
 
PS If the viewer I just described could run in a "browser" that too would be even more terrific!
 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2013 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] singularity vs firestorm

Thanks Melanie, this motivate me for trying it out. For my user training strategy, I try to stick to only one viewer ... so I will check it out and consider whether I need to shift from Firestorm.


On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 10:45 PM, Melanie <[hidden email]> wrote:
Singularity combines the tried and proven, efficient user interface
of the v1 viewer series with the advanced rendering features of the
v3 series of viewers.

The v3 interface was simplified (some say "dumbed down") to
accommodate a new class of users who are not necessarily creators.
Also, it was enhanced (some say cluttered) with a lot of web site
links to various parts of the LL site. TPV policy mandates that the
SecondLife web integration features may not be removed from any TPV
that wishes to connect to SecondLife. Of course, this only affects
the v3 UI. Some consider the links and buttons that lead to places
like showcase or marketplace little more than marketing spam while
others value them as convenient shortcuts to places they visit often.

Viewers need to be as diverse as the people who use them, no one
size fits all. Singularity's interface is aimed at people who just
want to get the job done. Lacking all the fancy doo-dads, bells and
whistles, it offers a functional, streamlined power user UI.

If you like Firestorm, Singularity may not be for you. It's
different. I have, for instance, spoken to people who can't handle
chat with the "Name: Text" format, but instead need the highlighted
name on a line by itself. v3 style, to be able to keep track.

Singularity doesn't waste an inch of screen space, it's UI is very
compact to allow you the maximum world window while still keeping
chats and build tools in view.

I prefer that.

Melanie
_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



--
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate Research Associate Professor, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: <a href="tel:208-240-0040" value="+12082400040" target="_blank">208-240-0040


_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: singularity vs firestorm

Sarge Misfit
whups, meant switch to using, not suing :-P


On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 7:16 AM, Sarge Misfit <[hidden email]> wrote:
I use Phoenix for the most part, but having heard so much about Singularity, I just now gave it a quick try. Very quick. I checked a couple of basic building functions and exporting.

Exporting: I use Angstrom 1.1.7 (28947) as it uses the HPA format, allowing me to export the contents of my builds.
Importing: Singularity will import Mesh and XML. Phoenix also imports Mesh and Cool VL Viewer imports XML.
Building: Singularity will hollow to 95% and has a nanoprim dimension of 0.01m. Phoenix will hollow to 99% and has a nanoprim dimension of 0.001m.

So, for me, its Phoenix to do my building and importing Mesh, Angstrom for Importing/Exporting my builds and Cool VL Viewer for importing XMLs. If it can be shown that Singularity handles XMLs better than Cool VL, I will switch to suing Singularity for XMLs.



On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 8:35 PM, Ovi Chris Rouly <[hidden email]> wrote:
Melanie, (and others of course)
 
I would very much like to see (and be willing to pay a license fee for) a viewer that had little more capacity than to render (out to a kilometer), support navigation (including hypergridded TP), and have robust login security (I don't know, maybe 128-bit).  Does such a "viewer"/renderer exist?
 
V/r,
 
Chris
 
PS If the viewer I just described could run in a "browser" that too would be even more terrific!
 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, August 24, 2013 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] singularity vs firestorm

Thanks Melanie, this motivate me for trying it out. For my user training strategy, I try to stick to only one viewer ... so I will check it out and consider whether I need to shift from Firestorm.


On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 10:45 PM, Melanie <[hidden email]> wrote:
Singularity combines the tried and proven, efficient user interface
of the v1 viewer series with the advanced rendering features of the
v3 series of viewers.

The v3 interface was simplified (some say "dumbed down") to
accommodate a new class of users who are not necessarily creators.
Also, it was enhanced (some say cluttered) with a lot of web site
links to various parts of the LL site. TPV policy mandates that the
SecondLife web integration features may not be removed from any TPV
that wishes to connect to SecondLife. Of course, this only affects
the v3 UI. Some consider the links and buttons that lead to places
like showcase or marketplace little more than marketing spam while
others value them as convenient shortcuts to places they visit often.

Viewers need to be as diverse as the people who use them, no one
size fits all. Singularity's interface is aimed at people who just
want to get the job done. Lacking all the fancy doo-dads, bells and
whistles, it offers a functional, streamlined power user UI.

If you like Firestorm, Singularity may not be for you. It's
different. I have, for instance, spoken to people who can't handle
chat with the "Name: Text" format, but instead need the highlighted
name on a line by itself. v3 style, to be able to keep track.

Singularity doesn't waste an inch of screen space, it's UI is very
compact to allow you the maximum world window while still keeping
chats and build tools in view.

I prefer that.

Melanie
_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



--
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate Research Associate Professor, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: <a href="tel:208-240-0040" value="+12082400040" target="_blank">208-240-0040


_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: singularity vs firestorm

Melanie
In reply to this post by Sarge Misfit
Hi,

On 25/08/2013 16:16, Sarge Misfit wrote:
> Importing: Singularity will import Mesh and XML. Phoenix also imports Mesh
> and Cool VL Viewer imports XML.

Sounds like Singularity does more here.

> Building: Singularity will hollow to 95% and has a nanoprim dimension of
> 0.01m. Phoenix will hollow to 99% and has a nanoprim dimension of 0.001m.

That is a setting, the default is to be conservative. In the grid
manager, ope "Advanced" for the grid of your choice and uncheck
"Rendering Compatibility". This setting limits building to creation
of things all viewers are guaranteed to render properly. If you want
to use nonstandard sizes that some viewers may not be able to
render, that is the setting you need to make to allow it.

> So, for me, its Phoenix to do my building and importing Mesh, Angstrom for
> Importing/Exporting my builds and Cool VL Viewer for importing XMLs. If it
> can be shown that Singularity handles XMLs better than Cool VL, I will
> switch to using Singularity for XMLs.

The issue with Phoenix is that the "LSL Bridge" leaves junk prims in
opensim grids if you log into a place where you have build rights.
Because of that, is's not well liked by sim owners and grid
operators who have the task of finding and removing these invisible
junk prims.

Melanie
_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: singularity vs firestorm

Mike Chase
In reply to this post by Dr Ramesh Ramloll
On Sat, 2013-08-24 at 20:03 -0400, Dr Ramesh Ramloll wrote:
> Hello there,
> I am wondering why singularity is a better viewer than firestorm. I
> suppose it is because I see the opensimcc is recommending to use it.
> Ive never used singularity. Please share your thoughts. Is the fps for
> e.g. significantly better, shadow rendering etc... etc.. I am always
> willing to learn more.
> Thank you.
> Ramesh
>

They're not better, or worse, just different.  Firestorm has some
advantages as does Singularity.  It's really a matter of preference.
Sort of a shame a specific viewer was "recommended" for the conference
if it was.  I don't see a good reason for it (other than singularity
added the conference grid but its a small matter of doing that).

For the record Melanie is a commit-er on the Singularity project so she
might be a tad biased.  Just saying.

Mike

>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: singularity vs firestorm

Sarge Misfit
In reply to this post by Melanie
Btw, I use Firestorm, not Phoenix. I realize I made the mistake of thinking of the two using the same name. Not feeling well, so I was a bit foggy-minded. So, when reading my previous post, replace Phoenix with Firestorm.

You can disable the use of the LSL Bridge in the Firestorm settings. (as well as in the original Phoenix).

One other problem, for me, is that I cannot customize the UI buttons. That's a minor thing, but I found myself looking for those things I use most often when using Firestorm. Fly, Build, MiniMap, Inventory were all in the "wrong place" for me.

All in all, to each their own.


On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Melanie <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

On 25/08/2013 16:16, Sarge Misfit wrote:
> Importing: Singularity will import Mesh and XML. Phoenix also imports Mesh
> and Cool VL Viewer imports XML.

Sounds like Singularity does more here.

> Building: Singularity will hollow to 95% and has a nanoprim dimension of
> 0.01m. Phoenix will hollow to 99% and has a nanoprim dimension of 0.001m.

That is a setting, the default is to be conservative. In the grid
manager, ope "Advanced" for the grid of your choice and uncheck
"Rendering Compatibility". This setting limits building to creation
of things all viewers are guaranteed to render properly. If you want
to use nonstandard sizes that some viewers may not be able to
render, that is the setting you need to make to allow it.

> So, for me, its Phoenix to do my building and importing Mesh, Angstrom for
> Importing/Exporting my builds and Cool VL Viewer for importing XMLs. If it
> can be shown that Singularity handles XMLs better than Cool VL, I will
> switch to using Singularity for XMLs.

The issue with Phoenix is that the "LSL Bridge" leaves junk prims in
opensim grids if you log into a place where you have build rights.
Because of that, is's not well liked by sim owners and grid
operators who have the task of finding and removing these invisible
junk prims.

Melanie
_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: singularity vs firestorm

Dr Ramesh Ramloll
In reply to this post by Mike Chase
Just a note here, after checking out singularity, I noticed that it is the first time anti-aliasing was working properly. I find that Firestorm's anti-aliasing never worked on my machine. 
Ramesh


On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 3:23 PM, Mike Chase <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sat, 2013-08-24 at 20:03 -0400, Dr Ramesh Ramloll wrote:
> Hello there,
> I am wondering why singularity is a better viewer than firestorm. I
> suppose it is because I see the opensimcc is recommending to use it.
> Ive never used singularity. Please share your thoughts. Is the fps for
> e.g. significantly better, shadow rendering etc... etc.. I am always
> willing to learn more.
> Thank you.
> Ramesh
>

They're not better, or worse, just different.  Firestorm has some
advantages as does Singularity.  It's really a matter of preference.
Sort of a shame a specific viewer was "recommended" for the conference
if it was.  I don't see a good reason for it (other than singularity
added the conference grid but its a small matter of doing that).

For the record Melanie is a commit-er on the Singularity project so she
might be a tad biased.  Just saying.

Mike

>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



--
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate Research Associate Professor, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID 83209 Tel: 208-240-0040

_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: singularity vs firestorm

Fleep Tuque
In reply to this post by Mike Chase
Hi all,

Regarding a "recommended" viewer for the OpenSimulator Community Conference, we are certainly not saying that other viewers aren't great to use - many of them are!  And we will have a panel of viewer developers in the Developers & Opensource track as part of the conference program, including Firestorm and Kokua, so we'd encourage you to attend that session to learn more about the various options available.

However, we have many newbies and people who don't have much experience with OpenSimulator or third party viewers in general planning to attend the event, so we needed to pick one viewer to document instructions and settings in order to make the event as accessible as possible to people who aren't "power users".  We also wanted to make sure our (tirelessly hardworking) volunteer team could focus on supporting one known viewer rather than trying to learn all the ins and outs of many viewers.

Singularity was chosen because it supports Mesh and MOAP, and because the viewer interface is relatively uncluttered.  It may be a judgement call, but the conference planning team reviewed all of the viewers that support Mesh and MOAP, tested them for performance, and we made a choice based on what we felt would offer the best, least confusing option to the least experienced user.  
I'm sure you can appreciate that it just simply wouldn't be feasible for us to try to support every viewer out there.

We know that many experienced OpenSimulator users have their own preferred viewer - and that's fine!  We're providing basic instructions and connection details for other viewers as well, so anyone who feels comfortable using a different viewer can do so, but we expect those folks to need a lot less hand holding in general.  So long as the viewer supports Mesh and MOAP, it should work great for the conference, and we encourage experienced users to use whatever viewer they are most comfortable with - it's just that we can only offer support for the one viewer we've tested, documented, and that our volunteer team has trained on.

I think it's a strength of the OpenSimulator ecosystem that we have so many viewers to choose from, and though we've chosen one viewer to recommend for the conference, that is not meant to imply in any way that other viewers aren't also good.  It's simply the logistics of trying to support hundreds of users with varying degrees of experience.  

I hope that clarifies things a bit!

Thanks,

- Chris/Fleep


Chris M. Collins (Avatar: Fleep Tuque)
Vice President, AvaCon, Inc.
275 Winthrop Street
PO Box 618
Rehoboth, MA 02769-1819
(774) 654-0010


On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 3:23 PM, Mike Chase <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sat, 2013-08-24 at 20:03 -0400, Dr Ramesh Ramloll wrote:
> Hello there,
> I am wondering why singularity is a better viewer than firestorm. I
> suppose it is because I see the opensimcc is recommending to use it.
> Ive never used singularity. Please share your thoughts. Is the fps for
> e.g. significantly better, shadow rendering etc... etc.. I am always
> willing to learn more.
> Thank you.
> Ramesh
>

They're not better, or worse, just different.  Firestorm has some
advantages as does Singularity.  It's really a matter of preference.
Sort of a shame a specific viewer was "recommended" for the conference
if it was.  I don't see a good reason for it (other than singularity
added the conference grid but its a small matter of doing that).

For the record Melanie is a commit-er on the Singularity project so she
might be a tad biased.  Just saying.

Mike

>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: singularity vs firestorm

Fleep Tuque
One other note I wanted to add to this thread, my own personal preference prior to working with the conference was Imprudence/Kokua.  Particularly Imprudence because it is such a stable workhorse!  So when the planning team started talking about other viewers, I told them they'd pry Imp out of my cold dead avatar hands.  ;)

Fortunately, I discovered that Singularity is as stable for me crash-wise as Imprudence was, even on my older laptop, and as much as I <3 Imprudence (and I still do!), I've also had to come to terms with the fact that without Mesh and MOAP support, Imprudence is pretty limited in viewing all of the great new mesh and media content people are creating.  

So I just wanted to say on a personal note, I definitely understand how strong our attachment can become to the tools we use, because I felt the same way.  However, Imprudence just won't work for the conference since our presenters will be using MOAP and many components in the conference builds use mesh for greater detail and rendering efficiency.  So if there are any other Imprudence hold-outs out there, I'd encourage you to give the OSCC Viewer a try. 


Sincerely,

- Chris/Fleep


Chris M. Collins (Avatar: Fleep Tuque)
Vice President, AvaCon, Inc.
275 Winthrop Street
PO Box 618
Rehoboth, MA 02769-1819
(774) 654-0010


On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 9:53 PM, Fleep Tuque <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all,

Regarding a "recommended" viewer for the OpenSimulator Community Conference, we are certainly not saying that other viewers aren't great to use - many of them are!  And we will have a panel of viewer developers in the Developers & Opensource track as part of the conference program, including Firestorm and Kokua, so we'd encourage you to attend that session to learn more about the various options available.

However, we have many newbies and people who don't have much experience with OpenSimulator or third party viewers in general planning to attend the event, so we needed to pick one viewer to document instructions and settings in order to make the event as accessible as possible to people who aren't "power users".  We also wanted to make sure our (tirelessly hardworking) volunteer team could focus on supporting one known viewer rather than trying to learn all the ins and outs of many viewers.

Singularity was chosen because it supports Mesh and MOAP, and because the viewer interface is relatively uncluttered.  It may be a judgement call, but the conference planning team reviewed all of the viewers that support Mesh and MOAP, tested them for performance, and we made a choice based on what we felt would offer the best, least confusing option to the least experienced user.  
I'm sure you can appreciate that it just simply wouldn't be feasible for us to try to support every viewer out there.

We know that many experienced OpenSimulator users have their own preferred viewer - and that's fine!  We're providing basic instructions and connection details for other viewers as well, so anyone who feels comfortable using a different viewer can do so, but we expect those folks to need a lot less hand holding in general.  So long as the viewer supports Mesh and MOAP, it should work great for the conference, and we encourage experienced users to use whatever viewer they are most comfortable with - it's just that we can only offer support for the one viewer we've tested, documented, and that our volunteer team has trained on.

I think it's a strength of the OpenSimulator ecosystem that we have so many viewers to choose from, and though we've chosen one viewer to recommend for the conference, that is not meant to imply in any way that other viewers aren't also good.  It's simply the logistics of trying to support hundreds of users with varying degrees of experience.  

I hope that clarifies things a bit!

Thanks,

- Chris/Fleep


Chris M. Collins (Avatar: Fleep Tuque)
Vice President, AvaCon, Inc.
275 Winthrop Street
PO Box 618
Rehoboth, MA 02769-1819
<a href="tel:%28774%29%20654-0010" value="+17746540010" target="_blank">(774) 654-0010


On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 3:23 PM, Mike Chase <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sat, 2013-08-24 at 20:03 -0400, Dr Ramesh Ramloll wrote:
> Hello there,
> I am wondering why singularity is a better viewer than firestorm. I
> suppose it is because I see the opensimcc is recommending to use it.
> Ive never used singularity. Please share your thoughts. Is the fps for
> e.g. significantly better, shadow rendering etc... etc.. I am always
> willing to learn more.
> Thank you.
> Ramesh
>

They're not better, or worse, just different.  Firestorm has some
advantages as does Singularity.  It's really a matter of preference.
Sort of a shame a specific viewer was "recommended" for the conference
if it was.  I don't see a good reason for it (other than singularity
added the conference grid but its a small matter of doing that).

For the record Melanie is a commit-er on the Singularity project so she
might be a tad biased.  Just saying.

Mike

>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: singularity vs firestorm

Kay McLennan
I have all three viewers -- Kokua, Firestorm, and Singularity -- loaded on my computer and seem to use all three.  Still, Singularity has two unique features I like a lot -- (1) the retention/rendering of the world map function even after several hypergrid jumps; and (2) the [new] ability to convert prim builds into a dae file format!

Again, I like all three but Singularity has a couple of features I happen to have a use for now.

Best,
Kay



On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 6:52 AM, Fleep Tuque <[hidden email]> wrote:
One other note I wanted to add to this thread, my own personal preference prior to working with the conference was Imprudence/Kokua.  Particularly Imprudence because it is such a stable workhorse!  So when the planning team started talking about other viewers, I told them they'd pry Imp out of my cold dead avatar hands.  ;)

Fortunately, I discovered that Singularity is as stable for me crash-wise as Imprudence was, even on my older laptop, and as much as I <3 Imprudence (and I still do!), I've also had to come to terms with the fact that without Mesh and MOAP support, Imprudence is pretty limited in viewing all of the great new mesh and media content people are creating.  

So I just wanted to say on a personal note, I definitely understand how strong our attachment can become to the tools we use, because I felt the same way.  However, Imprudence just won't work for the conference since our presenters will be using MOAP and many components in the conference builds use mesh for greater detail and rendering efficiency.  So if there are any other Imprudence hold-outs out there, I'd encourage you to give the OSCC Viewer a try. 


Sincerely,

- Chris/Fleep


Chris M. Collins (Avatar: Fleep Tuque)
Vice President, AvaCon, Inc.
275 Winthrop Street
PO Box 618
Rehoboth, MA 02769-1819
<a href="tel:%28774%29%20654-0010" value="+17746540010" target="_blank">(774) 654-0010


On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 9:53 PM, Fleep Tuque <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi all,

Regarding a "recommended" viewer for the OpenSimulator Community Conference, we are certainly not saying that other viewers aren't great to use - many of them are!  And we will have a panel of viewer developers in the Developers & Opensource track as part of the conference program, including Firestorm and Kokua, so we'd encourage you to attend that session to learn more about the various options available.

However, we have many newbies and people who don't have much experience with OpenSimulator or third party viewers in general planning to attend the event, so we needed to pick one viewer to document instructions and settings in order to make the event as accessible as possible to people who aren't "power users".  We also wanted to make sure our (tirelessly hardworking) volunteer team could focus on supporting one known viewer rather than trying to learn all the ins and outs of many viewers.

Singularity was chosen because it supports Mesh and MOAP, and because the viewer interface is relatively uncluttered.  It may be a judgement call, but the conference planning team reviewed all of the viewers that support Mesh and MOAP, tested them for performance, and we made a choice based on what we felt would offer the best, least confusing option to the least experienced user.  
I'm sure you can appreciate that it just simply wouldn't be feasible for us to try to support every viewer out there.

We know that many experienced OpenSimulator users have their own preferred viewer - and that's fine!  We're providing basic instructions and connection details for other viewers as well, so anyone who feels comfortable using a different viewer can do so, but we expect those folks to need a lot less hand holding in general.  So long as the viewer supports Mesh and MOAP, it should work great for the conference, and we encourage experienced users to use whatever viewer they are most comfortable with - it's just that we can only offer support for the one viewer we've tested, documented, and that our volunteer team has trained on.

I think it's a strength of the OpenSimulator ecosystem that we have so many viewers to choose from, and though we've chosen one viewer to recommend for the conference, that is not meant to imply in any way that other viewers aren't also good.  It's simply the logistics of trying to support hundreds of users with varying degrees of experience.  

I hope that clarifies things a bit!

Thanks,

- Chris/Fleep


Chris M. Collins (Avatar: Fleep Tuque)
Vice President, AvaCon, Inc.
275 Winthrop Street
PO Box 618
Rehoboth, MA 02769-1819
<a href="tel:%28774%29%20654-0010" value="+17746540010" target="_blank">(774) 654-0010


On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 3:23 PM, Mike Chase <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Sat, 2013-08-24 at 20:03 -0400, Dr Ramesh Ramloll wrote:
> Hello there,
> I am wondering why singularity is a better viewer than firestorm. I
> suppose it is because I see the opensimcc is recommending to use it.
> Ive never used singularity. Please share your thoughts. Is the fps for
> e.g. significantly better, shadow rendering etc... etc.. I am always
> willing to learn more.
> Thank you.
> Ramesh
>

They're not better, or worse, just different.  Firestorm has some
advantages as does Singularity.  It's really a matter of preference.
Sort of a shame a specific viewer was "recommended" for the conference
if it was.  I don't see a good reason for it (other than singularity
added the conference grid but its a small matter of doing that).

For the record Melanie is a commit-er on the Singularity project so she
might be a tad biased.  Just saying.

Mike

>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



--



_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users