summary/thoughts on Blue Mars

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
4 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

summary/thoughts on Blue Mars

Paul Fishwick
I tried out Blue Mars last night:

http://www.bluemarsonline.com/

and have some initial thoughts. I'll try to organize these thoughts from the
perspective of someone using OpenSim. Blue Mars is a massively multiplayer
virtual world that was recently released.

Overall Impression
-------------------

Very rough around the edges since it is still in development (what
isn't?). Avatar
motion seems awkward and very few interaction options compared with SL.
Graphics are stunning (more later) but high end graphics cards required.
As one
blogger has noted, the apparent target market seems to be a consistent and
shared presence for game-worlds: i..e, build your avatar, and work with
others
entering different spaces created by independent game developers.

Interaction
-----------

The range of interaction seems quite limited in Blue Mars--I didn't
notice an inventory
or the sort of array of options one is used to in the LL viewer. The
ease with which one
can move the camera and avatar in LL seems absent, or made unusually
complex without
hot key options.

Viewer
-------

The best part of the experience. Whereas visual effects have
languished at Linden Labs (with regard to their client viewer) over the
years, at the
expense of an admittedly vastly improved stable set of back-end
services, the
Blue Mars viewer presents a few stunning spaces such as New Venice and
the Waterfall World. Blue Mars touts the point that their content is created
through the use of professional tools. This is a two-sided issue. More
professional
tools do offer greater choice in rendered geometry; however, those same
tools
do have significant learning curves. LL has done a brilliant job at
making it simple
and easy for anyone to create content in situ.

Viewer and server based on the Crytek game engine. Assets are environment,
terrain, foliage, geometry imported through the usual packages (Maya,
3DSMAX, Blender...).
Very nice water and particle system effects.


Implications for OpenSim Users and Development
---------------------------------------------------

1. Improved Visual Effects

There is nothing really stopping the community at large from improving
not only the
viewers, but also the supported geometry to be more in line with the
type of experience
Blue Mars offers. If visual fidelity is important, and the game industry
has shown that
at least for entertainment purposes users want improved realism, then
this can be
a new direction. Two notes along these lines:

    A. Improving the view without augmenting the underlying assets:

     Cinquetti's viewers are about the best thing going. The shadow
capabilities of the
     open source LL client (including SnowGlobe) do not even come
close.  Time for
     them to vastly ramp up their rendering. Go to:

     http://kirstenleecinquetti.blogspot.com/

     these viewers can be used with OpenSim as well.

     B. Improving the view by augmenting the underlying assets:

     The RealXtend crew seem to be on the cutting edge here - with
support of the
     OGRE engine+mesh and the use of associated shaders. Mesh support is
sorely needed
     in OpenSim if it is to be compatible with the rest of the CAD and
game world,
     not to mention other virtual worlds.

2.  Pre-Loaded Assets

     With enhanced geometry for improved fidelity, there may need to be
an option for
     pre-loaded assets (worlds that users downloaded prior to entering
so that they
     do not require dynamic asset downloading when one first enters
them). It isn't
     clear whether this can be handled through a kind of 'extended
cache' ? When we
     clear the cache, it would need to be cleared by choosing which maps
or levels
     to remove.

-p



--
Paul Fishwick, PhD
Professor and Director, Digital Arts and Sciences Programs
University of Florida
Computer & Information Science and Eng. Dept.
Bldg. CSE, Room 301
P.O. Box 116120
Gainesville, FL 32611
Email: [hidden email]
Phone: (352) 392-1414
Fax: (352) 392-1220
Web: http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~fishwick

_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: summary/thoughts on Blue Mars

Frisby, Adam
All valid points, however I don't think any major changes are going to come on the SL viewer.

If you want these things, keep your eyes on Naali, Looking-Glass & Idealist, which are all ground-up rewrites.

Adam

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:opensim-users-
> [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Paul Fishwick
> Sent: Thursday, 17 September 2009 8:35 AM
> To: OpenSim Users Mailing List
> Subject: [Opensim-users] summary/thoughts on Blue Mars
>
> I tried out Blue Mars last night:
>
> http://www.bluemarsonline.com/
>
> and have some initial thoughts. I'll try to organize these thoughts
> from the
> perspective of someone using OpenSim. Blue Mars is a massively
> multiplayer
> virtual world that was recently released.
>
> Overall Impression
> -------------------
>
> Very rough around the edges since it is still in development (what
> isn't?). Avatar
> motion seems awkward and very few interaction options compared with SL.
> Graphics are stunning (more later) but high end graphics cards
> required.
> As one
> blogger has noted, the apparent target market seems to be a consistent
> and
> shared presence for game-worlds: i..e, build your avatar, and work with
> others
> entering different spaces created by independent game developers.
>
> Interaction
> -----------
>
> The range of interaction seems quite limited in Blue Mars--I didn't
> notice an inventory
> or the sort of array of options one is used to in the LL viewer. The
> ease with which one
> can move the camera and avatar in LL seems absent, or made unusually
> complex without
> hot key options.
>
> Viewer
> -------
>
> The best part of the experience. Whereas visual effects have
> languished at Linden Labs (with regard to their client viewer) over the
> years, at the
> expense of an admittedly vastly improved stable set of back-end
> services, the
> Blue Mars viewer presents a few stunning spaces such as New Venice and
> the Waterfall World. Blue Mars touts the point that their content is
> created
> through the use of professional tools. This is a two-sided issue. More
> professional
> tools do offer greater choice in rendered geometry; however, those same
> tools
> do have significant learning curves. LL has done a brilliant job at
> making it simple
> and easy for anyone to create content in situ.
>
> Viewer and server based on the Crytek game engine. Assets are
> environment,
> terrain, foliage, geometry imported through the usual packages (Maya,
> 3DSMAX, Blender...).
> Very nice water and particle system effects.
>
>
> Implications for OpenSim Users and Development
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> 1. Improved Visual Effects
>
> There is nothing really stopping the community at large from improving
> not only the
> viewers, but also the supported geometry to be more in line with the
> type of experience
> Blue Mars offers. If visual fidelity is important, and the game
> industry
> has shown that
> at least for entertainment purposes users want improved realism, then
> this can be
> a new direction. Two notes along these lines:
>
>     A. Improving the view without augmenting the underlying assets:
>
>      Cinquetti's viewers are about the best thing going. The shadow
> capabilities of the
>      open source LL client (including SnowGlobe) do not even come
> close.  Time for
>      them to vastly ramp up their rendering. Go to:
>
>      http://kirstenleecinquetti.blogspot.com/
>
>      these viewers can be used with OpenSim as well.
>
>      B. Improving the view by augmenting the underlying assets:
>
>      The RealXtend crew seem to be on the cutting edge here - with
> support of the
>      OGRE engine+mesh and the use of associated shaders. Mesh support
> is
> sorely needed
>      in OpenSim if it is to be compatible with the rest of the CAD and
> game world,
>      not to mention other virtual worlds.
>
> 2.  Pre-Loaded Assets
>
>      With enhanced geometry for improved fidelity, there may need to be
> an option for
>      pre-loaded assets (worlds that users downloaded prior to entering
> so that they
>      do not require dynamic asset downloading when one first enters
> them). It isn't
>      clear whether this can be handled through a kind of 'extended
> cache' ? When we
>      clear the cache, it would need to be cleared by choosing which
> maps
> or levels
>      to remove.
>
> -p
>
>
>
> --
> Paul Fishwick, PhD
> Professor and Director, Digital Arts and Sciences Programs
> University of Florida
> Computer & Information Science and Eng. Dept.
> Bldg. CSE, Room 301
> P.O. Box 116120
> Gainesville, FL 32611
> Email: [hidden email]
> Phone: (352) 392-1414
> Fax: (352) 392-1220
> Web: http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~fishwick
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: summary/thoughts on Blue Mars

Jeremiah Spence
Are there any ground-up re-writes of opensim server-side underway?

-jeremiah

Frisby, Adam wrote:

> All valid points, however I don't think any major changes are going to come on the SL viewer.
>
> If you want these things, keep your eyes on Naali, Looking-Glass & Idealist, which are all ground-up rewrites.
>
> Adam
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:opensim-users-
>> [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Paul Fishwick
>> Sent: Thursday, 17 September 2009 8:35 AM
>> To: OpenSim Users Mailing List
>> Subject: [Opensim-users] summary/thoughts on Blue Mars
>>
>> I tried out Blue Mars last night:
>>
>> http://www.bluemarsonline.com/
>>
>> and have some initial thoughts. I'll try to organize these thoughts
>> from the
>> perspective of someone using OpenSim. Blue Mars is a massively
>> multiplayer
>> virtual world that was recently released.
>>
>> Overall Impression
>> -------------------
>>
>> Very rough around the edges since it is still in development (what
>> isn't?). Avatar
>> motion seems awkward and very few interaction options compared with SL.
>> Graphics are stunning (more later) but high end graphics cards
>> required.
>> As one
>> blogger has noted, the apparent target market seems to be a consistent
>> and
>> shared presence for game-worlds: i..e, build your avatar, and work with
>> others
>> entering different spaces created by independent game developers.
>>
>> Interaction
>> -----------
>>
>> The range of interaction seems quite limited in Blue Mars--I didn't
>> notice an inventory
>> or the sort of array of options one is used to in the LL viewer. The
>> ease with which one
>> can move the camera and avatar in LL seems absent, or made unusually
>> complex without
>> hot key options.
>>
>> Viewer
>> -------
>>
>> The best part of the experience. Whereas visual effects have
>> languished at Linden Labs (with regard to their client viewer) over the
>> years, at the
>> expense of an admittedly vastly improved stable set of back-end
>> services, the
>> Blue Mars viewer presents a few stunning spaces such as New Venice and
>> the Waterfall World. Blue Mars touts the point that their content is
>> created
>> through the use of professional tools. This is a two-sided issue. More
>> professional
>> tools do offer greater choice in rendered geometry; however, those same
>> tools
>> do have significant learning curves. LL has done a brilliant job at
>> making it simple
>> and easy for anyone to create content in situ.
>>
>> Viewer and server based on the Crytek game engine. Assets are
>> environment,
>> terrain, foliage, geometry imported through the usual packages (Maya,
>> 3DSMAX, Blender...).
>> Very nice water and particle system effects.
>>
>>
>> Implications for OpenSim Users and Development
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>
>> 1. Improved Visual Effects
>>
>> There is nothing really stopping the community at large from improving
>> not only the
>> viewers, but also the supported geometry to be more in line with the
>> type of experience
>> Blue Mars offers. If visual fidelity is important, and the game
>> industry
>> has shown that
>> at least for entertainment purposes users want improved realism, then
>> this can be
>> a new direction. Two notes along these lines:
>>
>>     A. Improving the view without augmenting the underlying assets:
>>
>>      Cinquetti's viewers are about the best thing going. The shadow
>> capabilities of the
>>      open source LL client (including SnowGlobe) do not even come
>> close.  Time for
>>      them to vastly ramp up their rendering. Go to:
>>
>>      http://kirstenleecinquetti.blogspot.com/
>>
>>      these viewers can be used with OpenSim as well.
>>
>>      B. Improving the view by augmenting the underlying assets:
>>
>>      The RealXtend crew seem to be on the cutting edge here - with
>> support of the
>>      OGRE engine+mesh and the use of associated shaders. Mesh support
>> is
>> sorely needed
>>      in OpenSim if it is to be compatible with the rest of the CAD and
>> game world,
>>      not to mention other virtual worlds.
>>
>> 2.  Pre-Loaded Assets
>>
>>      With enhanced geometry for improved fidelity, there may need to be
>> an option for
>>      pre-loaded assets (worlds that users downloaded prior to entering
>> so that they
>>      do not require dynamic asset downloading when one first enters
>> them). It isn't
>>      clear whether this can be handled through a kind of 'extended
>> cache' ? When we
>>      clear the cache, it would need to be cleared by choosing which
>> maps
>> or levels
>>      to remove.
>>
>> -p
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Paul Fishwick, PhD
>> Professor and Director, Digital Arts and Sciences Programs
>> University of Florida
>> Computer & Information Science and Eng. Dept.
>> Bldg. CSE, Room 301
>> P.O. Box 116120
>> Gainesville, FL 32611
>> Email: [hidden email]
>> Phone: (352) 392-1414
>> Fax: (352) 392-1220
>> Web: http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~fishwick
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: summary/thoughts on Blue Mars

Toni Alatalo
Jeremiah Spence kirjoitti:
> Are there any ground-up re-writes of opensim server-side underway?
>  

To do what?

There is one I know but the purpose of it is to experiment things and
bring them over to Opensim proper .. I'm talking about John Hurlimans
Simian at openmetaverse -- a minimal optimized opensim impl, featuring
hundreds of multiple avatars, has been used already to test
optimizations that have been brought to Opensim then (and iirc there is
more there that is kind of on the way?).

Then there are of course all kinds of extensions.

Someone was writing a small server in C and Lua?

I was interested in writing a lightweight thing in Python, but when
learned about Simian, dropped that idea for now at least and when use
that when want to test something with a hundred avs for example.

Cable Beach was in a way a rewrite of OpenSim, and I guess ROBUST too,
and Snowcrash is making a new script engine .. all kinds of rewrites
have been going on.

Then there are other servers like Sirikata, with their protocol.

> -jeremiah
>  

~Toni

> Frisby, Adam wrote:
>  
>> All valid points, however I don't think any major changes are going to come on the SL viewer.
>>
>> If you want these things, keep your eyes on Naali, Looking-Glass & Idealist, which are all ground-up rewrites.
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>    
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [hidden email] [mailto:opensim-users-
>>> [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Paul Fishwick
>>> Sent: Thursday, 17 September 2009 8:35 AM
>>> To: OpenSim Users Mailing List
>>> Subject: [Opensim-users] summary/thoughts on Blue Mars
>>>
>>> I tried out Blue Mars last night:
>>>
>>> http://www.bluemarsonline.com/
>>>
>>> and have some initial thoughts. I'll try to organize these thoughts
>>> from the
>>> perspective of someone using OpenSim. Blue Mars is a massively
>>> multiplayer
>>> virtual world that was recently released.
>>>
>>> Overall Impression
>>> -------------------
>>>
>>> Very rough around the edges since it is still in development (what
>>> isn't?). Avatar
>>> motion seems awkward and very few interaction options compared with SL.
>>> Graphics are stunning (more later) but high end graphics cards
>>> required.
>>> As one
>>> blogger has noted, the apparent target market seems to be a consistent
>>> and
>>> shared presence for game-worlds: i..e, build your avatar, and work with
>>> others
>>> entering different spaces created by independent game developers.
>>>
>>> Interaction
>>> -----------
>>>
>>> The range of interaction seems quite limited in Blue Mars--I didn't
>>> notice an inventory
>>> or the sort of array of options one is used to in the LL viewer. The
>>> ease with which one
>>> can move the camera and avatar in LL seems absent, or made unusually
>>> complex without
>>> hot key options.
>>>
>>> Viewer
>>> -------
>>>
>>> The best part of the experience. Whereas visual effects have
>>> languished at Linden Labs (with regard to their client viewer) over the
>>> years, at the
>>> expense of an admittedly vastly improved stable set of back-end
>>> services, the
>>> Blue Mars viewer presents a few stunning spaces such as New Venice and
>>> the Waterfall World. Blue Mars touts the point that their content is
>>> created
>>> through the use of professional tools. This is a two-sided issue. More
>>> professional
>>> tools do offer greater choice in rendered geometry; however, those same
>>> tools
>>> do have significant learning curves. LL has done a brilliant job at
>>> making it simple
>>> and easy for anyone to create content in situ.
>>>
>>> Viewer and server based on the Crytek game engine. Assets are
>>> environment,
>>> terrain, foliage, geometry imported through the usual packages (Maya,
>>> 3DSMAX, Blender...).
>>> Very nice water and particle system effects.
>>>
>>>
>>> Implications for OpenSim Users and Development
>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> 1. Improved Visual Effects
>>>
>>> There is nothing really stopping the community at large from improving
>>> not only the
>>> viewers, but also the supported geometry to be more in line with the
>>> type of experience
>>> Blue Mars offers. If visual fidelity is important, and the game
>>> industry
>>> has shown that
>>> at least for entertainment purposes users want improved realism, then
>>> this can be
>>> a new direction. Two notes along these lines:
>>>
>>>     A. Improving the view without augmenting the underlying assets:
>>>
>>>      Cinquetti's viewers are about the best thing going. The shadow
>>> capabilities of the
>>>      open source LL client (including SnowGlobe) do not even come
>>> close.  Time for
>>>      them to vastly ramp up their rendering. Go to:
>>>
>>>      http://kirstenleecinquetti.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>>      these viewers can be used with OpenSim as well.
>>>
>>>      B. Improving the view by augmenting the underlying assets:
>>>
>>>      The RealXtend crew seem to be on the cutting edge here - with
>>> support of the
>>>      OGRE engine+mesh and the use of associated shaders. Mesh support
>>> is
>>> sorely needed
>>>      in OpenSim if it is to be compatible with the rest of the CAD and
>>> game world,
>>>      not to mention other virtual worlds.
>>>
>>> 2.  Pre-Loaded Assets
>>>
>>>      With enhanced geometry for improved fidelity, there may need to be
>>> an option for
>>>      pre-loaded assets (worlds that users downloaded prior to entering
>>> so that they
>>>      do not require dynamic asset downloading when one first enters
>>> them). It isn't
>>>      clear whether this can be handled through a kind of 'extended
>>> cache' ? When we
>>>      clear the cache, it would need to be cleared by choosing which
>>> maps
>>> or levels
>>>      to remove.
>>>
>>> -p
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Paul Fishwick, PhD
>>> Professor and Director, Digital Arts and Sciences Programs
>>> University of Florida
>>> Computer & Information Science and Eng. Dept.
>>> Bldg. CSE, Room 301
>>> P.O. Box 116120
>>> Gainesville, FL 32611
>>> Email: [hidden email]
>>> Phone: (352) 392-1414
>>> Fax: (352) 392-1220
>>> Web: http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~fishwick
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>      
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>
>>    
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>  

_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users