the concept of "visitor"

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Re: the concept of "visitor"

John Mieske
I would like to know more on what you did.. :)


On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 3:10 AM, Toni Alatalo <[hidden email]> wrote:
John Mieske kirjoitti:
> why not add a PHP file that does this all for you ?  Example : They
> click a button that says Visitor John. It gives them a temp user and
> PW with full instructions to their e-mail. They log in. Now the timer
> on the PHP can delete the temp user and PW after 24 hours. You

BTW I happened to do independently a first very simple implementation of
this on Monday, but integrated to the Naali viewer so that visitor /
anon login to a preconfigured world is just click of a single button -
no need to know anything about usernames or passwords or servers or
anything. Was fun to see this discussion here after had implemented it :)

That works by the button handler in viewer fetching a temp / anon
account with http, and logging in with that. It works in trunk now (also
on linux) and is released hopefully later today in Naali 0.1 rc1 so you
can test, the sources are in our google code repo -- i can give the
direct pointers if someone is curious.

The target demo server is just a standalone with auth off with no other
usage, so can be reseted if there becomes cruft etc. We are certainly
interested in this more advanced solutions that have been outlined here,
where could mix actual authenticated and such visitor accounts in the
same worlds well enough.

~Toni
> can even have a php that refreshes every hour that checks the database
> and removes the temp users that has no need to be there. Make sure you
> create a seperate database for the time limit so that it wont have to
> be added to the MAIN SQL database. If the "extra" SQL databse has the
> name and user's time stamp ready for deletion then it removes it from
> the MAIN database for the name and PW and then goes back to the temp
> and removes it there too. So two databases with name and PW to show
> which is fake.
>
> This can be done in many ways. Just a thought.
>
> John Mieske / Sonya Penucca
>
> On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 10:49 AM, Paul Fishwick <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     I would like to open up one of our worlds to the general public by
>     allowing people
>     to log in as visitors. This is related to the "anonymous login"
>     and has
>     been discussed
>     in various forms, but here is the concept - not sure if anything
>     exists
>     yet in trunk to
>     support this:
>
>     1. A user logs in using whatever name they want. If authentication is
>     turned off, this is
>       no problem. However, what would be ideal is that when the user logs
>     off, any trace
>       of them is removed from the database-- they do not persist.
>
>     2. When the user logs in, they have access to the Library part of the
>     inventory, but are
>        unable to load any assets to the server, thus they would have
>     nothing under "My Inventory"
>        or be able to copy items from the Library or the world into My
>     Inventory. The Library
>        would contain all necessities (clothing, basic objects and scripts
>     that they require
>        in the space).
>
>     3. The user cannot build on the island but can run scripts and
>     navigate
>     performing full
>        interaction.
>
>     #1 is not a huge issue since I would imagine that the incremental
>     space
>     allocation for
>     users just means additional rows in the user/agent tables -- shouldn't
>     take up too much
>     room. #2 is a bigger problem - visitors should not be taxing the asset
>     server. #3
>     can be handled by unchecking both boxes next to Create Objects in
>     About
>     Land->Options.
>
>     Are either #1 or #2 possible? They would seem to be a prerequisite for
>     something approaching
>     basic web page services: people come in, visit, and exit while
>     leaving a
>     minimal trace.
>     Builders on the other hand, have special login names that give
>     them the
>     capability to build
>     and load assets (possible with groups?).
>
>     -p
>
>     --
>     Paul Fishwick, PhD
>     Professor
>     University of Florida
>     CISE Department, CSE 301
>     Gainesville, FL 32611
>     Email: [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     <http://www.cise.ufl.edu/%7Efishwick>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Opensim-users mailing list
>     [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>

_______________________________________________
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--
John Mieske / Sonya Pencuca
http://johnmieske.org
Space Grid Station
"Religion - The art of killing people to prove who's imaginary friend is better."

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Re: the concept of "visitor"

Toni Alatalo
Lainaus John Mieske <[hidden email]>:

> I would like to know more on what you did.. :)

It is finished now and in use, in the Naali 0.1 release candidate 1. If you use
windows you can download the installer from http://code.google.com/p/realxtend-
naali/downloads/list (i don't link to the exact file so that if there is a bug
and we make rc2 etc the archives don't link to the old one :) . Looks like this,
the two quick login buttons: https://photos-
1.dropbox.com/i/o/bvQdDNw8HFtF0yroMLrfI3gEClwXkLp1QeoaIWbPiuQ

On linux you can build it, there's a bash script in svn tools/ dir for ubuntu
that installs the deps and builds the thing itself, and people have used fedora
core and archlinux too. I guess we could provide a build somehow, there's a
builtbot that at least builds it after each commit anyway. Mac stuff needs some
work still.

Anyhow the current impl is very simple: it just fetches an unused username from
a web service, and uses that to login to a standalone opensim where
authentication is disabled from opensim.ini. The web service now just has a
counter, so gives Demo UserX where X is the number from the counter. That makes
the account unique, so you don't log in with an account someone was already
using, which would 'cause that user to logout.

The url that gives accounts is http://www.playsign.fi/engine/rex/anonuser if you
wanna see it in action. I was thinking of making it something nicer like give
random Finnish words but didn't have time for that (yet) :) .. The source for
the login button on the viewer side is http://code.google.com/p/realxtend-
naali/source/browse/trunk/bin/pymodules/usr/anonlogin.py

Like said in the earlier post, would be nice to have some better so that could
allow anon access to also worlds that are in actual use by also authenticated
users - will need to read the other posts in this read later 'cause seemed that
there was good ideas. This was just something that was quick to do in some
hours.

~Toni

> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 3:10 AM, Toni Alatalo <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > John Mieske kirjoitti:
> > > why not add a PHP file that does this all for you ?  Example : They
> > > click a button that says Visitor John. It gives them a temp user and
> > > PW with full instructions to their e-mail. They log in. Now the timer
> > > on the PHP can delete the temp user and PW after 24 hours. You
> >
> > BTW I happened to do independently a first very simple implementation of
> > this on Monday, but integrated to the Naali viewer so that visitor /
> > anon login to a preconfigured world is just click of a single button -
> > no need to know anything about usernames or passwords or servers or
> > anything. Was fun to see this discussion here after had implemented it :)
> >
> > That works by the button handler in viewer fetching a temp / anon
> > account with http, and logging in with that. It works in trunk now (also
> > on linux) and is released hopefully later today in Naali 0.1 rc1 so you
> > can test, the sources are in our google code repo -- i can give the
> > direct pointers if someone is curious.
> >
> > The target demo server is just a standalone with auth off with no other
> > usage, so can be reseted if there becomes cruft etc. We are certainly
> > interested in this more advanced solutions that have been outlined here,
> > where could mix actual authenticated and such visitor accounts in the
> > same worlds well enough.
> >
> > ~Toni
> > > can even have a php that refreshes every hour that checks the database
> > > and removes the temp users that has no need to be there. Make sure you
> > > create a seperate database for the time limit so that it wont have to
> > > be added to the MAIN SQL database. If the "extra" SQL databse has the
> > > name and user's time stamp ready for deletion then it removes it from
> > > the MAIN database for the name and PW and then goes back to the temp
> > > and removes it there too. So two databases with name and PW to show
> > > which is fake.
> > >
> > > This can be done in many ways. Just a thought.
> > >
> > > John Mieske / Sonya Penucca
> > >
> > > On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 10:49 AM, Paul Fishwick <[hidden email]
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> > >
> > >     I would like to open up one of our worlds to the general public by
> > >     allowing people
> > >     to log in as visitors. This is related to the "anonymous login"
> > >     and has
> > >     been discussed
> > >     in various forms, but here is the concept - not sure if anything
> > >     exists
> > >     yet in trunk to
> > >     support this:
> > >
> > >     1. A user logs in using whatever name they want. If authentication
> is
> > >     turned off, this is
> > >       no problem. However, what would be ideal is that when the user
> logs
> > >     off, any trace
> > >       of them is removed from the database-- they do not persist.
> > >
> > >     2. When the user logs in, they have access to the Library part of
> the
> > >     inventory, but are
> > >        unable to load any assets to the server, thus they would have
> > >     nothing under "My Inventory"
> > >        or be able to copy items from the Library or the world into My
> > >     Inventory. The Library
> > >        would contain all necessities (clothing, basic objects and
> scripts
> > >     that they require
> > >        in the space).
> > >
> > >     3. The user cannot build on the island but can run scripts and
> > >     navigate
> > >     performing full
> > >        interaction.
> > >
> > >     #1 is not a huge issue since I would imagine that the incremental
> > >     space
> > >     allocation for
> > >     users just means additional rows in the user/agent tables --
> > shouldn't
> > >     take up too much
> > >     room. #2 is a bigger problem - visitors should not be taxing the
> > asset
> > >     server. #3
> > >     can be handled by unchecking both boxes next to Create Objects in
> > >     About
> > >     Land->Options.
> > >
> > >     Are either #1 or #2 possible? They would seem to be a prerequisite
> > for
> > >     something approaching
> > >     basic web page services: people come in, visit, and exit while
> > >     leaving a
> > >     minimal trace.
> > >     Builders on the other hand, have special login names that give
> > >     them the
> > >     capability to build
> > >     and load assets (possible with groups?).
> > >
> > >     -p
> > >
> > >     --
> > >     Paul Fishwick, PhD
> > >     Professor
> > >     University of Florida
> > >     CISE Department, CSE 301
> > >     Gainesville, FL 32611
> > >     Email: [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
> > >     Web: http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~fishwick
> > >     <http://www.cise.ufl.edu/%7Efishwick>
> > >
> > >     _______________________________________________
> > >     Opensim-users mailing list
> > >     [hidden email] <mailto:
> > [hidden email]>
> > >     https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Opensim-users mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Opensim-users mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
> >
>
>
>
> --
> John Mieske / Sonya Pencuca
> http://johnmieske.org
> Space Grid Station
> "Religion - The art of killing people to prove who's imaginary friend is
> better."
>




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Re: the concept of "visitor"

Diva Canto
Sorry if I missed details of this conversation, but the
presence-refactor branch of OpenSim, which will very soon be merged to
master, allows a lot of flexibility on this issue of authentication. It
will be more or less trivial to develop variations of the reference
login service that account for (a) anonymous users, (b) on-the-fly
registrations, (c) non-persistent visitors, etc etc

It comes with an identity/login service that may be made independent of
any particular grid.

[hidden email] wrote:

> Lainaus John Mieske <[hidden email]>:
>
>> I would like to know more on what you did.. :)
>
> It is finished now and in use, in the Naali 0.1 release candidate 1. If you use
> windows you can download the installer from http://code.google.com/p/realxtend-
> naali/downloads/list (i don't link to the exact file so that if there is a bug
> and we make rc2 etc the archives don't link to the old one :) . Looks like this,
> the two quick login buttons: https://photos-
> 1.dropbox.com/i/o/bvQdDNw8HFtF0yroMLrfI3gEClwXkLp1QeoaIWbPiuQ
>
> On linux you can build it, there's a bash script in svn tools/ dir for ubuntu
> that installs the deps and builds the thing itself, and people have used fedora
> core and archlinux too. I guess we could provide a build somehow, there's a
> builtbot that at least builds it after each commit anyway. Mac stuff needs some
> work still.
>
> Anyhow the current impl is very simple: it just fetches an unused username from
> a web service, and uses that to login to a standalone opensim where
> authentication is disabled from opensim.ini. The web service now just has a
> counter, so gives Demo UserX where X is the number from the counter. That makes
> the account unique, so you don't log in with an account someone was already
> using, which would 'cause that user to logout.
>
> The url that gives accounts is http://www.playsign.fi/engine/rex/anonuser if you
> wanna see it in action. I was thinking of making it something nicer like give
> random Finnish words but didn't have time for that (yet) :) .. The source for
> the login button on the viewer side is http://code.google.com/p/realxtend-
> naali/source/browse/trunk/bin/pymodules/usr/anonlogin.py
>
> Like said in the earlier post, would be nice to have some better so that could
> allow anon access to also worlds that are in actual use by also authenticated
> users - will need to read the other posts in this read later 'cause seemed that
> there was good ideas. This was just something that was quick to do in some
> hours.
>
> ~Toni
>
>> On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 3:10 AM, Toni Alatalo <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> John Mieske kirjoitti:
>>>> why not add a PHP file that does this all for you ?  Example : They
>>>> click a button that says Visitor John. It gives them a temp user and
>>>> PW with full instructions to their e-mail. They log in. Now the timer
>>>> on the PHP can delete the temp user and PW after 24 hours. You
>>> BTW I happened to do independently a first very simple implementation of
>>> this on Monday, but integrated to the Naali viewer so that visitor /
>>> anon login to a preconfigured world is just click of a single button -
>>> no need to know anything about usernames or passwords or servers or
>>> anything. Was fun to see this discussion here after had implemented it :)
>>>
>>> That works by the button handler in viewer fetching a temp / anon
>>> account with http, and logging in with that. It works in trunk now (also
>>> on linux) and is released hopefully later today in Naali 0.1 rc1 so you
>>> can test, the sources are in our google code repo -- i can give the
>>> direct pointers if someone is curious.
>>>
>>> The target demo server is just a standalone with auth off with no other
>>> usage, so can be reseted if there becomes cruft etc. We are certainly
>>> interested in this more advanced solutions that have been outlined here,
>>> where could mix actual authenticated and such visitor accounts in the
>>> same worlds well enough.
>>>
>>> ~Toni
>>>> can even have a php that refreshes every hour that checks the database
>>>> and removes the temp users that has no need to be there. Make sure you
>>>> create a seperate database for the time limit so that it wont have to
>>>> be added to the MAIN SQL database. If the "extra" SQL databse has the
>>>> name and user's time stamp ready for deletion then it removes it from
>>>> the MAIN database for the name and PW and then goes back to the temp
>>>> and removes it there too. So two databases with name and PW to show
>>>> which is fake.
>>>>
>>>> This can be done in many ways. Just a thought.
>>>>
>>>> John Mieske / Sonya Penucca
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 10:49 AM, Paul Fishwick <[hidden email]
>>>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     I would like to open up one of our worlds to the general public by
>>>>     allowing people
>>>>     to log in as visitors. This is related to the "anonymous login"
>>>>     and has
>>>>     been discussed
>>>>     in various forms, but here is the concept - not sure if anything
>>>>     exists
>>>>     yet in trunk to
>>>>     support this:
>>>>
>>>>     1. A user logs in using whatever name they want. If authentication
>> is
>>>>     turned off, this is
>>>>       no problem. However, what would be ideal is that when the user
>> logs
>>>>     off, any trace
>>>>       of them is removed from the database-- they do not persist.
>>>>
>>>>     2. When the user logs in, they have access to the Library part of
>> the
>>>>     inventory, but are
>>>>        unable to load any assets to the server, thus they would have
>>>>     nothing under "My Inventory"
>>>>        or be able to copy items from the Library or the world into My
>>>>     Inventory. The Library
>>>>        would contain all necessities (clothing, basic objects and
>> scripts
>>>>     that they require
>>>>        in the space).
>>>>
>>>>     3. The user cannot build on the island but can run scripts and
>>>>     navigate
>>>>     performing full
>>>>        interaction.
>>>>
>>>>     #1 is not a huge issue since I would imagine that the incremental
>>>>     space
>>>>     allocation for
>>>>     users just means additional rows in the user/agent tables --
>>> shouldn't
>>>>     take up too much
>>>>     room. #2 is a bigger problem - visitors should not be taxing the
>>> asset
>>>>     server. #3
>>>>     can be handled by unchecking both boxes next to Create Objects in
>>>>     About
>>>>     Land->Options.
>>>>
>>>>     Are either #1 or #2 possible? They would seem to be a prerequisite
>>> for
>>>>     something approaching
>>>>     basic web page services: people come in, visit, and exit while
>>>>     leaving a
>>>>     minimal trace.
>>>>     Builders on the other hand, have special login names that give
>>>>     them the
>>>>     capability to build
>>>>     and load assets (possible with groups?).
>>>>
>>>>     -p
>>>>
>>>>     --
>>>>     Paul Fishwick, PhD
>>>>     Professor
>>>>     University of Florida
>>>>     CISE Department, CSE 301
>>>>     Gainesville, FL 32611
>>>>     Email: [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>>>     Web: http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~fishwick
>>>>     <http://www.cise.ufl.edu/%7Efishwick>
>>>>
>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>>     Opensim-users mailing list
>>>>     [hidden email] <mailto:
>>> [hidden email]>
>>>>     https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> John Mieske / Sonya Pencuca
>> http://johnmieske.org
>> Space Grid Station
>> "Religion - The art of killing people to prove who's imaginary friend is
>> better."
>>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
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Re: the concept of "visitor"

Master_Mirage
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Paul Fishwick
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Re: the concept of "visitor"

Toni Alatalo
Master_Mirage kirjoitti:
> tell yah what doc. i can prove the kurft and i made my systems so it dont
> matter. Mysql is sidways over 4 servers. Come have a look your vistor pass
> isant a point. We came from a place that all that paper you have dont
>  
(...)
> we are eeasy to find at http://www.mirink.com

I don't understand - I went there and tried to see how I could log in as
a visitor, without making an account first like typically, but could not
find a way.

~Toni
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