what version of collada is expected by various standard viewers & opensim

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what version of collada is expected by various standard viewers & opensim

Dr Ramesh Ramloll
Hello
I am wondering if this is documented somewhere, I try googling but
could not find the info.
What is the current version of collada expected by Firestorm or Second
Life viewer?
I am not familiar with console commands for opensim but I imagine
there much be commands to load collada files manually (?), in any
case, what version of collada does opensim expect its collada objs to
be in.
The amount of effort to get anything to work from static objects to
rigged avatars is really out of bounds.
The various editors I tried require a lot of gymnastics just to get
objects that render well in them to be imported into opensim.
I am only familiar with ac3d, and Blender somewhat. Since we are on
this topic, is there really a human usable 3d editor that actually
works with little headaches.
Blender is in a class of its own ... with its different versions and
lack of back compatibility.
Any way, will wait for some of your thoughts and insights.
R
--
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate
Research Associate Professor, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID
83209 Tel: 208-240-0040
Blog, LinkedIn, DeepSemaphore LLC, Google+ profile
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Re: what version of collada is expected by various standard viewers & opensim

Michael Emory Cerquoni
I believe it will load down to Collada 1.3 though I think 1.4+ is recommended and there is no way to load collada files directly from the simulator console at this time it requires a LL based viewer that supports mesh uploads.


On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 6:41 PM, Dr Ramesh Ramloll <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello
I am wondering if this is documented somewhere, I try googling but
could not find the info.
What is the current version of collada expected by Firestorm or Second
Life viewer?
I am not familiar with console commands for opensim but I imagine
there much be commands to load collada files manually (?), in any
case, what version of collada does opensim expect its collada objs to
be in.
The amount of effort to get anything to work from static objects to
rigged avatars is really out of bounds.
The various editors I tried require a lot of gymnastics just to get
objects that render well in them to be imported into opensim.
I am only familiar with ac3d, and Blender somewhat. Since we are on
this topic, is there really a human usable 3d editor that actually
works with little headaches.
Blender is in a class of its own ... with its different versions and
lack of back compatibility.
Any way, will wait for some of your thoughts and insights.
R
--
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate
Research Associate Professor, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID
83209 Tel: 208-240-0040
Blog, LinkedIn, DeepSemaphore LLC, Google+ profile
_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



--
Michael Emory Cerquoni

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Re: what version of collada is expected by various standard viewers & opensim

John Sheridan
re : "The various editors I tried require a lot of gymnastics just to get
objects that render well in them to be imported into opensim.
I am only familiar with ac3d, and Blender somewhat."

I've been working with Blender 2.6, and while I'll admit it takes a bit
of adjusting if you're moving from prim based modeling it works
perfectly with opensim uploading through either Firestorm or Kokua.  
Scaling is a bit of a headache but after upload my models show exactly
as they did in Blender and oddly enough, they seem to actually load a
bit faster.

While on the topic of mesh, I did have a quick question to anyone out
there regarding instancing.  Awhile back (before the advent of mesh) I
seem to remember someone mentioning that sculpts were superior to normal
prims as only one copy of the sculpt is downloaded and then applied to
all objects it was used on by the viewer.  Would anyone happen to know
if the same holds true for mesh?  Say in the case of an model with
multiple duplicated pieces, would it make better sense to include one
copy of the duplicate piece in the dae and then duplicate it in world or
just glob it all together during the import?

Thanks, :)

- John / Orion Pseudo

On 07/05/2013 08:08 PM, Nebadon Izumi wrote:
> The various editors I tried require a lot of gymnastics just to get
> objects that render well in them to be imported into opensim.
> I am only familiar with ac3d, and Blender somewhat.

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Re: what version of collada is expected by various standard viewers & opensim

Dahlia Trimble
If an object is made up of many pieces, all of which are the same mesh, then it would be better to upload the mesh once and just duplicate it. This is because the mesh is a single asset and the viewer *should* only download it once. However, each piece is still a single "prim" whether it's a prim, a sculpt, or a mesh, and will still require a message from the sim (ObjectUpdate packet) telling the viewer that it is there. This message is quite small compared to the size of the mesh asset though and many of them can be sent quite quickly. If the same mesh was uploaded many times and these different uploads were used in the same scene, then each mesh would get a different Asset ID and the viewers would have no way of knowing they were all the same and would need to download each copy separately; this could put quite a strain on the simulator and the network and should be avoided.

Note that in Second Life, "Land Impact" may be adversely influenced by many copies of the same mesh *even though the mesh only has to be sent to each viewer once*. This is an oversight in the design of Land Impact and OpenSimulator does not have this issue as it does not implement Land Impact.


On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 5:49 PM, John Sheridan <[hidden email]> wrote:
re : "The various editors I tried require a lot of gymnastics just to get

objects that render well in them to be imported into opensim.
I am only familiar with ac3d, and Blender somewhat."

I've been working with Blender 2.6, and while I'll admit it takes a bit of adjusting if you're moving from prim based modeling it works perfectly with opensim uploading through either Firestorm or Kokua.  Scaling is a bit of a headache but after upload my models show exactly as they did in Blender and oddly enough, they seem to actually load a bit faster.

While on the topic of mesh, I did have a quick question to anyone out there regarding instancing.  Awhile back (before the advent of mesh) I seem to remember someone mentioning that sculpts were superior to normal prims as only one copy of the sculpt is downloaded and then applied to all objects it was used on by the viewer.  Would anyone happen to know if the same holds true for mesh?  Say in the case of an model with multiple duplicated pieces, would it make better sense to include one copy of the duplicate piece in the dae and then duplicate it in world or just glob it all together during the import?

Thanks, :)

- John / Orion Pseudo


On 07/05/2013 08:08 PM, Nebadon Izumi wrote:
The various editors I tried require a lot of gymnastics just to get
objects that render well in them to be imported into opensim.
I am only familiar with ac3d, and Blender somewhat.

_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


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Re: what version of collada is expected by various standard viewers & opensim

Dr Ramesh Ramloll
Hi Dahlia,
If I understand you correctly, if I upload a grass plant in mesh and
then just multiple copy it inworld, it would not make a difference if
made a grass patch in mesh and then uploaded it. Let me know, am kind
of dabbling with this issue right now. Am thinking in the way for
leaves in a tree.
R

On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 9:43 PM, Dahlia Trimble <[hidden email]> wrote:

> If an object is made up of many pieces, all of which are the same mesh, then
> it would be better to upload the mesh once and just duplicate it. This is
> because the mesh is a single asset and the viewer *should* only download it
> once. However, each piece is still a single "prim" whether it's a prim, a
> sculpt, or a mesh, and will still require a message from the sim
> (ObjectUpdate packet) telling the viewer that it is there. This message is
> quite small compared to the size of the mesh asset though and many of them
> can be sent quite quickly. If the same mesh was uploaded many times and
> these different uploads were used in the same scene, then each mesh would
> get a different Asset ID and the viewers would have no way of knowing they
> were all the same and would need to download each copy separately; this
> could put quite a strain on the simulator and the network and should be
> avoided.
>
> Note that in Second Life, "Land Impact" may be adversely influenced by many
> copies of the same mesh *even though the mesh only has to be sent to each
> viewer once*. This is an oversight in the design of Land Impact and
> OpenSimulator does not have this issue as it does not implement Land Impact.
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 5:49 PM, John Sheridan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> re : "The various editors I tried require a lot of gymnastics just to get
>>
>> objects that render well in them to be imported into opensim.
>> I am only familiar with ac3d, and Blender somewhat."
>>
>> I've been working with Blender 2.6, and while I'll admit it takes a bit of
>> adjusting if you're moving from prim based modeling it works perfectly with
>> opensim uploading through either Firestorm or Kokua.  Scaling is a bit of a
>> headache but after upload my models show exactly as they did in Blender and
>> oddly enough, they seem to actually load a bit faster.
>>
>> While on the topic of mesh, I did have a quick question to anyone out
>> there regarding instancing.  Awhile back (before the advent of mesh) I seem
>> to remember someone mentioning that sculpts were superior to normal prims as
>> only one copy of the sculpt is downloaded and then applied to all objects it
>> was used on by the viewer.  Would anyone happen to know if the same holds
>> true for mesh?  Say in the case of an model with multiple duplicated pieces,
>> would it make better sense to include one copy of the duplicate piece in the
>> dae and then duplicate it in world or just glob it all together during the
>> import?
>>
>> Thanks, :)
>>
>> - John / Orion Pseudo
>>
>>
>> On 07/05/2013 08:08 PM, Nebadon Izumi wrote:
>>>
>>> The various editors I tried require a lot of gymnastics just to get
>>> objects that render well in them to be imported into opensim.
>>> I am only familiar with ac3d, and Blender somewhat.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



--
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate
Research Associate Professor, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID
83209 Tel: 208-240-0040
Blog, LinkedIn, DeepSemaphore LLC, Google+ profile
_______________________________________________
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Re: what version of collada is expected by various standard viewers & opensim

Dahlia Trimble

I'll try explaining it differently.

If you upload a single mesh then there is one asset the viewer needs to download. If you upload several meshes, there are several that the viewer needs to download. It doesn't matter if the meshes are the same or not, the viewer needs to download one copy of every asset it needs to display. Since mesh assets can be quite large compared to other network traffic, it's a better choice to only upload *one* copy of a unique mesh and then just duplicate it in the scene.

Each mesh object in a scene consists of a small chunk of information (asset reference, location, orientation, texture references, etc.). The viewer will (should) only download assets that it doesn't yet have a copy of. If there are many chunks of grass and they all use the same mesh asset, then the viewer only needs to download that asset once. If, however, you uploaded a unique mesh many times, then each upload would create a new asset and the viewer would need to download each one.



On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 7:07 PM, Dr Ramesh Ramloll <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Dahlia,
If I understand you correctly, if I upload a grass plant in mesh and
then just multiple copy it inworld, it would not make a difference if
made a grass patch in mesh and then uploaded it. Let me know, am kind
of dabbling with this issue right now. Am thinking in the way for
leaves in a tree.
R

On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 9:43 PM, Dahlia Trimble <[hidden email]> wrote:
> If an object is made up of many pieces, all of which are the same mesh, then
> it would be better to upload the mesh once and just duplicate it. This is
> because the mesh is a single asset and the viewer *should* only download it
> once. However, each piece is still a single "prim" whether it's a prim, a
> sculpt, or a mesh, and will still require a message from the sim
> (ObjectUpdate packet) telling the viewer that it is there. This message is
> quite small compared to the size of the mesh asset though and many of them
> can be sent quite quickly. If the same mesh was uploaded many times and
> these different uploads were used in the same scene, then each mesh would
> get a different Asset ID and the viewers would have no way of knowing they
> were all the same and would need to download each copy separately; this
> could put quite a strain on the simulator and the network and should be
> avoided.
>
> Note that in Second Life, "Land Impact" may be adversely influenced by many
> copies of the same mesh *even though the mesh only has to be sent to each
> viewer once*. This is an oversight in the design of Land Impact and
> OpenSimulator does not have this issue as it does not implement Land Impact.
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 5:49 PM, John Sheridan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> re : "The various editors I tried require a lot of gymnastics just to get
>>
>> objects that render well in them to be imported into opensim.
>> I am only familiar with ac3d, and Blender somewhat."
>>
>> I've been working with Blender 2.6, and while I'll admit it takes a bit of
>> adjusting if you're moving from prim based modeling it works perfectly with
>> opensim uploading through either Firestorm or Kokua.  Scaling is a bit of a
>> headache but after upload my models show exactly as they did in Blender and
>> oddly enough, they seem to actually load a bit faster.
>>
>> While on the topic of mesh, I did have a quick question to anyone out
>> there regarding instancing.  Awhile back (before the advent of mesh) I seem
>> to remember someone mentioning that sculpts were superior to normal prims as
>> only one copy of the sculpt is downloaded and then applied to all objects it
>> was used on by the viewer.  Would anyone happen to know if the same holds
>> true for mesh?  Say in the case of an model with multiple duplicated pieces,
>> would it make better sense to include one copy of the duplicate piece in the
>> dae and then duplicate it in world or just glob it all together during the
>> import?
>>
>> Thanks, :)
>>
>> - John / Orion Pseudo
>>
>>
>> On 07/05/2013 08:08 PM, Nebadon Izumi wrote:
>>>
>>> The various editors I tried require a lot of gymnastics just to get
>>> objects that render well in them to be imported into opensim.
>>> I am only familiar with ac3d, and Blender somewhat.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



--
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate
Research Associate Professor, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID
83209 Tel: <a href="tel:208-240-0040" value="+12082400040">208-240-0040
Blog, LinkedIn, DeepSemaphore LLC, Google+ profile
_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


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Re: what version of collada is expected by various standard viewers & opensim

John Sheridan
In reply to this post by Dr Ramesh Ramloll
Dr. Ramloll,

You would probably get a better benefit if you were to upload a few
different variations.  For example: a single plant, a 10x10 patch of
joined plants, a 20x20 patch, and so on.  Each of the three variations
if duplicated in world would only be downloaded once and you would have
the flexibility to cover a variety of different areas in different sizes
more efficiently.

In regard to prim counts, if you were to upload a single plant and then
build your patch in world you would likely be using far more prims than
you would if you uploaded a pre-joined patch.  So, not counting for
vertex counts and all the other goodies that come from a land impact
calculation - the following would hold true.

1 plant    = 1 prim     = 1 mesh download, 1 object download
10 plants (linked in world) = 10 prims = 1 mesh download, 10 object
downloads
10 linked plant patches = 100 prims = 1 mesh download, 100 object downloads
1 patch (10 plants joined in mesh before import) = 1 prim = 1 mesh
download, 1 object download
10 mesh patches = 10 prims = 1 mesh download, 10 object downloads

The theory being that the mesh download is much larger than the object
download.  The mesh download contains the mesh's geometry, textures,
texture maps, and so on wherein the object download contains such things
as the object's position in world, the id of the mesh, textures, and so
on that are applied to it.

I hope this helps.  :)

  - John / Orion Pseudo

On 07/05/2013 10:07 PM, Dr Ramesh Ramloll wrote:

> Hi Dahlia,
> If I understand you correctly, if I upload a grass plant in mesh and
> then just multiple copy it inworld, it would not make a difference if
> made a grass patch in mesh and then uploaded it. Let me know, am kind
> of dabbling with this issue right now. Am thinking in the way for
> leaves in a tree.
> R
>
> On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 9:43 PM, Dahlia Trimble <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> If an object is made up of many pieces, all of which are the same mesh, then
>> it would be better to upload the mesh once and just duplicate it. This is
>> because the mesh is a single asset and the viewer *should* only download it
>> once. However, each piece is still a single "prim" whether it's a prim, a
>> sculpt, or a mesh, and will still require a message from the sim
>> (ObjectUpdate packet) telling the viewer that it is there. This message is
>> quite small compared to the size of the mesh asset though and many of them
>> can be sent quite quickly. If the same mesh was uploaded many times and
>> these different uploads were used in the same scene, then each mesh would
>> get a different Asset ID and the viewers would have no way of knowing they
>> were all the same and would need to download each copy separately; this
>> could put quite a strain on the simulator and the network and should be
>> avoided.
>>
>> Note that in Second Life, "Land Impact" may be adversely influenced by many
>> copies of the same mesh *even though the mesh only has to be sent to each
>> viewer once*. This is an oversight in the design of Land Impact and
>> OpenSimulator does not have this issue as it does not implement Land Impact.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 5:49 PM, John Sheridan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> re : "The various editors I tried require a lot of gymnastics just to get
>>>
>>> objects that render well in them to be imported into opensim.
>>> I am only familiar with ac3d, and Blender somewhat."
>>>
>>> I've been working with Blender 2.6, and while I'll admit it takes a bit of
>>> adjusting if you're moving from prim based modeling it works perfectly with
>>> opensim uploading through either Firestorm or Kokua.  Scaling is a bit of a
>>> headache but after upload my models show exactly as they did in Blender and
>>> oddly enough, they seem to actually load a bit faster.
>>>
>>> While on the topic of mesh, I did have a quick question to anyone out
>>> there regarding instancing.  Awhile back (before the advent of mesh) I seem
>>> to remember someone mentioning that sculpts were superior to normal prims as
>>> only one copy of the sculpt is downloaded and then applied to all objects it
>>> was used on by the viewer.  Would anyone happen to know if the same holds
>>> true for mesh?  Say in the case of an model with multiple duplicated pieces,
>>> would it make better sense to include one copy of the duplicate piece in the
>>> dae and then duplicate it in world or just glob it all together during the
>>> import?
>>>
>>> Thanks, :)
>>>
>>> - John / Orion Pseudo
>>>
>>>
>>> On 07/05/2013 08:08 PM, Nebadon Izumi wrote:
>>>> The various editors I tried require a lot of gymnastics just to get
>>>> objects that render well in them to be imported into opensim.
>>>> I am only familiar with ac3d, and Blender somewhat.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Opensim-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>

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Re: what version of collada is expected by various standard viewers & opensim

Dahlia Trimble
you cant really compare number of "object downloads" to number of "mesh downloads" as meshes can grow very large in size and memory requirements where object downloads are very small and fast. There's also a negative impact in simulator physics and memory when using very complex or large meshes. Of course if your meshes are phantom then sim impact will be less.


On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 7:59 PM, John Sheridan <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dr. Ramloll,

You would probably get a better benefit if you were to upload a few different variations.  For example: a single plant, a 10x10 patch of joined plants, a 20x20 patch, and so on.  Each of the three variations if duplicated in world would only be downloaded once and you would have the flexibility to cover a variety of different areas in different sizes more efficiently.

In regard to prim counts, if you were to upload a single plant and then build your patch in world you would likely be using far more prims than you would if you uploaded a pre-joined patch.  So, not counting for vertex counts and all the other goodies that come from a land impact calculation - the following would hold true.

1 plant    = 1 prim     = 1 mesh download, 1 object download
10 plants (linked in world) = 10 prims = 1 mesh download, 10 object downloads
10 linked plant patches = 100 prims = 1 mesh download, 100 object downloads
1 patch (10 plants joined in mesh before import) = 1 prim = 1 mesh download, 1 object download
10 mesh patches = 10 prims = 1 mesh download, 10 object downloads

The theory being that the mesh download is much larger than the object download.  The mesh download contains the mesh's geometry, textures, texture maps, and so on wherein the object download contains such things as the object's position in world, the id of the mesh, textures, and so on that are applied to it.

I hope this helps.  :)


 - John / Orion Pseudo

On 07/05/2013 10:07 PM, Dr Ramesh Ramloll wrote:
Hi Dahlia,
If I understand you correctly, if I upload a grass plant in mesh and
then just multiple copy it inworld, it would not make a difference if
made a grass patch in mesh and then uploaded it. Let me know, am kind
of dabbling with this issue right now. Am thinking in the way for
leaves in a tree.
R

On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 9:43 PM, Dahlia Trimble <[hidden email]> wrote:
If an object is made up of many pieces, all of which are the same mesh, then
it would be better to upload the mesh once and just duplicate it. This is
because the mesh is a single asset and the viewer *should* only download it
once. However, each piece is still a single "prim" whether it's a prim, a
sculpt, or a mesh, and will still require a message from the sim
(ObjectUpdate packet) telling the viewer that it is there. This message is
quite small compared to the size of the mesh asset though and many of them
can be sent quite quickly. If the same mesh was uploaded many times and
these different uploads were used in the same scene, then each mesh would
get a different Asset ID and the viewers would have no way of knowing they
were all the same and would need to download each copy separately; this
could put quite a strain on the simulator and the network and should be
avoided.

Note that in Second Life, "Land Impact" may be adversely influenced by many
copies of the same mesh *even though the mesh only has to be sent to each
viewer once*. This is an oversight in the design of Land Impact and
OpenSimulator does not have this issue as it does not implement Land Impact.


On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 5:49 PM, John Sheridan <[hidden email]> wrote:
re : "The various editors I tried require a lot of gymnastics just to get

objects that render well in them to be imported into opensim.
I am only familiar with ac3d, and Blender somewhat."

I've been working with Blender 2.6, and while I'll admit it takes a bit of
adjusting if you're moving from prim based modeling it works perfectly with
opensim uploading through either Firestorm or Kokua.  Scaling is a bit of a
headache but after upload my models show exactly as they did in Blender and
oddly enough, they seem to actually load a bit faster.

While on the topic of mesh, I did have a quick question to anyone out
there regarding instancing.  Awhile back (before the advent of mesh) I seem
to remember someone mentioning that sculpts were superior to normal prims as
only one copy of the sculpt is downloaded and then applied to all objects it
was used on by the viewer.  Would anyone happen to know if the same holds
true for mesh?  Say in the case of an model with multiple duplicated pieces,
would it make better sense to include one copy of the duplicate piece in the
dae and then duplicate it in world or just glob it all together during the
import?

Thanks, :)

- John / Orion Pseudo


On 07/05/2013 08:08 PM, Nebadon Izumi wrote:
The various editors I tried require a lot of gymnastics just to get
objects that render well in them to be imported into opensim.
I am only familiar with ac3d, and Blender somewhat.

_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users



_______________________________________________
Opensim-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users


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Re: what version of collada is expected by various standard viewers & opensim

Dr Ramesh Ramloll
Thanks John, Dahlia,
I think I get it, I cannot obviously model the situation in my head
because of many factors that am sure am missing. But overall, I think
it is like a raw data compression issue for optimal its optimal
transmission down a constrained pipe. So in this case, mesh is
analogous to raw data. The optimizing process when done manually will
look like cutting down intelligently a large mesh into smaller
repeatable parts and send each part down the pipe and instructions to
reassemble them at client. Because the reassembly is cheaper than if
the whole mesh object were to be pushed down. What users may see is a
complex world appearing more quickly. Thanks again for the
explanations.
R

On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 11:33 PM, Dahlia Trimble <[hidden email]> wrote:

> you cant really compare number of "object downloads" to number of "mesh
> downloads" as meshes can grow very large in size and memory requirements
> where object downloads are very small and fast. There's also a negative
> impact in simulator physics and memory when using very complex or large
> meshes. Of course if your meshes are phantom then sim impact will be less.
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 7:59 PM, John Sheridan <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Dr. Ramloll,
>>
>> You would probably get a better benefit if you were to upload a few
>> different variations.  For example: a single plant, a 10x10 patch of joined
>> plants, a 20x20 patch, and so on.  Each of the three variations if
>> duplicated in world would only be downloaded once and you would have the
>> flexibility to cover a variety of different areas in different sizes more
>> efficiently.
>>
>> In regard to prim counts, if you were to upload a single plant and then
>> build your patch in world you would likely be using far more prims than you
>> would if you uploaded a pre-joined patch.  So, not counting for vertex
>> counts and all the other goodies that come from a land impact calculation -
>> the following would hold true.
>>
>> 1 plant    = 1 prim     = 1 mesh download, 1 object download
>> 10 plants (linked in world) = 10 prims = 1 mesh download, 10 object
>> downloads
>> 10 linked plant patches = 100 prims = 1 mesh download, 100 object
>> downloads
>> 1 patch (10 plants joined in mesh before import) = 1 prim = 1 mesh
>> download, 1 object download
>> 10 mesh patches = 10 prims = 1 mesh download, 10 object downloads
>>
>> The theory being that the mesh download is much larger than the object
>> download.  The mesh download contains the mesh's geometry, textures, texture
>> maps, and so on wherein the object download contains such things as the
>> object's position in world, the id of the mesh, textures, and so on that are
>> applied to it.
>>
>> I hope this helps.  :)
>>
>>
>>  - John / Orion Pseudo
>>
>> On 07/05/2013 10:07 PM, Dr Ramesh Ramloll wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Dahlia,
>>> If I understand you correctly, if I upload a grass plant in mesh and
>>> then just multiple copy it inworld, it would not make a difference if
>>> made a grass patch in mesh and then uploaded it. Let me know, am kind
>>> of dabbling with this issue right now. Am thinking in the way for
>>> leaves in a tree.
>>> R
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 9:43 PM, Dahlia Trimble <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If an object is made up of many pieces, all of which are the same mesh,
>>>> then
>>>> it would be better to upload the mesh once and just duplicate it. This
>>>> is
>>>> because the mesh is a single asset and the viewer *should* only download
>>>> it
>>>> once. However, each piece is still a single "prim" whether it's a prim,
>>>> a
>>>> sculpt, or a mesh, and will still require a message from the sim
>>>> (ObjectUpdate packet) telling the viewer that it is there. This message
>>>> is
>>>> quite small compared to the size of the mesh asset though and many of
>>>> them
>>>> can be sent quite quickly. If the same mesh was uploaded many times and
>>>> these different uploads were used in the same scene, then each mesh
>>>> would
>>>> get a different Asset ID and the viewers would have no way of knowing
>>>> they
>>>> were all the same and would need to download each copy separately; this
>>>> could put quite a strain on the simulator and the network and should be
>>>> avoided.
>>>>
>>>> Note that in Second Life, "Land Impact" may be adversely influenced by
>>>> many
>>>> copies of the same mesh *even though the mesh only has to be sent to
>>>> each
>>>> viewer once*. This is an oversight in the design of Land Impact and
>>>> OpenSimulator does not have this issue as it does not implement Land
>>>> Impact.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 5:49 PM, John Sheridan <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> re : "The various editors I tried require a lot of gymnastics just to
>>>>> get
>>>>>
>>>>> objects that render well in them to be imported into opensim.
>>>>> I am only familiar with ac3d, and Blender somewhat."
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been working with Blender 2.6, and while I'll admit it takes a bit
>>>>> of
>>>>> adjusting if you're moving from prim based modeling it works perfectly
>>>>> with
>>>>> opensim uploading through either Firestorm or Kokua.  Scaling is a bit
>>>>> of a
>>>>> headache but after upload my models show exactly as they did in Blender
>>>>> and
>>>>> oddly enough, they seem to actually load a bit faster.
>>>>>
>>>>> While on the topic of mesh, I did have a quick question to anyone out
>>>>> there regarding instancing.  Awhile back (before the advent of mesh) I
>>>>> seem
>>>>> to remember someone mentioning that sculpts were superior to normal
>>>>> prims as
>>>>> only one copy of the sculpt is downloaded and then applied to all
>>>>> objects it
>>>>> was used on by the viewer.  Would anyone happen to know if the same
>>>>> holds
>>>>> true for mesh?  Say in the case of an model with multiple duplicated
>>>>> pieces,
>>>>> would it make better sense to include one copy of the duplicate piece
>>>>> in the
>>>>> dae and then duplicate it in world or just glob it all together during
>>>>> the
>>>>> import?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, :)
>>>>>
>>>>> - John / Orion Pseudo
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 07/05/2013 08:08 PM, Nebadon Izumi wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The various editors I tried require a lot of gymnastics just to get
>>>>>> objects that render well in them to be imported into opensim.
>>>>>> I am only familiar with ac3d, and Blender somewhat.
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
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--
'Consider how the lilies grow. They do not labor or spin.'
Rameshsharma Ramloll PhD, CEO CTO DeepSemaphore LLC, Affiliate
Research Associate Professor, Idaho State University, Pocatello, ID
83209 Tel: 208-240-0040
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